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ST: Many Changes to Test Ships!

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Please note that the information in the Development Blog is preliminary.

Tier IX European destroyer Friesland:

  • Turrets can rotate 360 degrees.
  • Turret firing angles increased: bow turret by 1 degree, stern turret by 5 degrees to both sides.
  • AA damage bonus granted by the Defensive AA Fire consumable lowered from +200% to +100%.

Changes to turret rotation and firing angles will make playing the Friesland more comfortable.
Friesland has good AA defense for her class, allowing her to take down large numbers of planes, but the Defensive AA Fire consumable made the destroyer too effective against aircraft. 

Tier IX German cruiser Siegfried:

  • Number of charges for the Repair Party consumable lowered from 3 to 2.
  • Torpedo range lowered from 8 to 6 km.

Number of the Repair party consumables were aligned with the standard values for cruisers, and torpedo range was aligned with the values of high-tier German cruisers and battleships. 

Tier VII Japanese destroyer Yudachi:

  • Torpedo tubes reload time increased from 91 to 100 s.

After the addition of the Torpedo Reload Booster consumable the total torpedo damage dealt by the destroyer was too great. 

Tier X American destroyer Somers:

  • Main caliber guns reload time increased from 5 to 6 seconds.

The efficiency of the main caliber guns was too great for the torpedo-focused destroyer.

Tier VI British aircraft carrier Ark Royal:

  • Torpedo bombers squadron size increased from 6 to 9 planes;
  • Number of torpedo bombers on deck increased from 9 to 14;
  • Torpedo bombers restoration time decreased from 81 to 59 s;
  • Armor penetration of HE bombs increased from 18 to 19 mm;
  • Number of bombs on the plane is lowered from 12 to 8.

Considering the speed of the planes, the size of the torpedo bomber squadron was too small for the tier VI aircraft carrier. Increased armor penetration will allow bombs to penetrate the superstructure of tier VIII battleships, and the lower number of bombs per plane will lower the efficiency of the aircraft carrier primarily against destroyers. This will be compensated by the increased size of the torpedo bombers squadron due to the increased damage dealt to battleships and cruisers.

Re-searchable French destroyers of tiers II - X, French tier V destroyer Siroco, French tier VIII destroyer Le Terrible:

  • The possibility of incapacitating the engine and steering gears is lowered.

Due to the large size of the modules of French destroyers they were incapacitated too often when the destroyer was hit.

Tier II French destroyer Enseigne Gabolde:

  • Main caliber guns reload time lowered from 6 to 4.8 s.
  • Torpedo tubes reload time lowered from 57 to 35 s.
  • Maximum torpedo damage lowered from 12,233 to 7,433.
  • Torpedo range increased from 6 to 7 km.

Tier III French destroyer Fusilier:

Hull A:

  • Torpedo tubes reload time lowered from 57 to 35 s.
  • Maximum torpedo damage lowered from 12,233 to 7,433.
  • Torpedo range increased from 6 to 7 km.

Hull B:

  • Torpedo tubes reload time lowered from 90 to 52 s.
  • Maximum torpedo damage lowered from 12,233 to 7,433.
  • Torpedo range increased from 6 to 7.5 km.

Tier IV French destroyer Bourrasque:

  • Torpedo tubes reload time lowered from 90 to 75 s.
  • Maximum torpedo damage lowered from 14,833 to 11,267.
  • Torpedo range lowered from 9 to 7.5 km.
  • Torpedo speed lowered from 60 to 57 knots.

Tier V French destroyer Jaguar:

  • Torpedo range lowered from 9 to 8 km.
  • Torpedo speed increased from 60 to 68 knots.

Tier VI French destroyer Guepard:

  • Torpedo range lowered from 9 to 8 km.
  • Torpedo speed increased from 60 to 68 knots.

With the increasing of tiers, the torpedoes of the French destroyers didn't make sense in their progression: their parameters were changing from tier to tier, but they didn't fit the unified system. Changes will bring the torpedoes of these ships in line with the following concept - torpedo range is slightly higher than the detection range of French destroyers, they have good speed and medium damage.

Please note that the information in the Development Blog is preliminary.

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@Kami can you try for a system-wide change in terminology when discussing carrier aircraft? It's been suggested on the forums they aren't regenerating, but being brought up from the hangars. There's probably a lot of words you could use instead of "regeneration". 

This is the most recent reference I can find. 

 

I totally agree with @NoSoMo here... heck, just the use of "restock" or "deck them", something like it? Flight ready? 

I know there must be a military term for the act of pulling aircraft from below decks and readying them for flight on the deck... It'd help reduce some of the absurd hysteria people have about unlimited aircraft for sure. 

It also furthers the illusion of some semblance of accuracy. 

Thanks for considering the change in terminology. 

As to the Ark Royal... it sounds like you've simply increased the number of aircraft that can be shot down while removing the ship's ability to do damage worthy of the investment in money and time. 

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27 minutes ago, Kami said:

Tier IX German cruiser Siegfried:

  • Number of charges for the Repair Party consumable lowered from 3 to 2.
  • Torpedo range lowered from 8 to 6 km.

Number of the Repair party consumables were aligned with the standard values for cruisers, and torpedo range was aligned with the values of high-tier German cruisers and battleships. 

This change does not really make sense.

On the one hand you align her Repair Party count with that of other cruisers, but at the other time you align the torpedoes with those of high tier German cruisers?

For one, the Repair Party count of the high tier German cruisers is three by default. So you actually threw her out of the line with this change.

Secondly, the torpedorange of the other German thicc cruiser (Graf Spee) is 8km.

But let's give benefit of the doubt, you disagree with how I see things. Alright. Then what is the purpose of this change? You want to align her characteristics (note, characteristics, not her performance. Nowhere does it say that this change is driven by the desire to balance Siegfried) to that of other ships. Then why not do that to begin with? Neither the Repair Party count, nor the torpedostats of German tech tree ships underwent some drastic change within the last few weeks.

As it looks, this seems like a random change. As in changing something about Siegfried for the sake of it, but still trying to give a reason.

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I have to concur with @SireneRacker .  The primary firepower is same as the Genissenau(well with the Main battery reload mod a bit better still anemic) but with less heal and same torp range? I can't imagine it being so overperforming in STs. Maybe give it Scharnhorst guns with faster reload, and may make sense (supposed to be a cruiser anyway) in my opinion. As of right now, it is even less tasteful than Geni at T7.

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54 minutes ago, Kami said:

Tier IX German cruiser Siegfried:

  • Number of charges for the Repair Party consumable lowered from 3 to 2.

Why? Just, why?

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40 minutes ago, SireneRacker said:

This change does not really make sense.

On the one hand you align her Repair Party count with that of other cruisers, but at the other time you align the torpedoes with those of high tier German cruisers?

For one, the Repair Party count of the high tier German cruisers is three by default. So you actually threw her out of the line with this change.

Secondly, the torpedorange of the other German thicc cruiser (Graf Spee) is 8km.

But let's give benefit of the doubt, you disagree with how I see things. Alright. Then what is the purpose of this change? You want to align her characteristics (note, characteristics, not her performance. Nowhere does it say that this change is driven by the desire to balance Siegfried) to that of other ships. Then why not do that to begin with? Neither the Repair Party count, nor the torpedostats of German tech tree ships underwent some drastic change within the last few weeks.

As it looks, this seems like a random change. As in changing something about Siegfried for the sake of it, but still trying to give a reason.

 

20 minutes ago, Carbapenem_17 said:

I have to concur with @SireneRacker .  The primary firepower is same as the Genissenau(well with the Main battery reload mod a bit better still anemic) but with less heal and same torp range? I can't imagine it being so overperforming in STs. Maybe give it Scharnhorst guns with faster reload, and may make sense (supposed to be a cruiser anyway) in my opinion. As of right now, it is even less tasteful than Geni at T7.

 

19 minutes ago, Nine_Lives_ said:

Why? Just, why?

Couldn't it just be that she has a major lead in survivability, something a lot of people complain about with CVs? 

I mean, they're see the stats. We just see some CC tell us it's good or bad in their opinion and a single cherry picked game.

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1 hour ago, Kami said:

Tier IX German cruiser Siegfried:

  • Number of charges for the Repair Party consumable lowered from 3 to 2.
  • Torpedo range lowered from 8 to 6 km.

Number of the Repair party consumables were aligned with the standard values for cruisers, and torpedo range was aligned with the values of high-tier German cruisers and battleships. 

Tier VII Japanese destroyer Yudachi:

  • Torpedo tubes reload time increased from 91 to 100 s.

After the addition of the Torpedo Reload Booster consumable the total torpedo damage dealt by the destroyer was too great. 

What on earth are the Devs smoking? We all want some to understand this.

Yuudachi have standard non-japanese torpedo damage with awful concealment and speed, horrible guns (good damage but the SLOWER RoF of any IJN 127mm) and "bad" concealment at 6.1. Why the hell did they nerf it even more?

Siegfried suffered a lot to stay alive and they lower the repair charger? Excuse me what the *too ranty to type here*? It's the German Cruiser thing: having 5 heals (because the 27mm bow is shared with US CAs). Why, just why would you ever do that? The torp range kind of make sense (if you stretch it a lot) but this ship was meant to have Graf Spee torps. Now not only fack the good angles, also lack some range yay.

1 hour ago, Kami said:

Tier IX European destroyer Friesland:

  • Turrets can rotate 360 degrees.
  • Turret firing angles increased: bow turret by 1 degree, stern turret by 5 degrees to both sides.
  • AA damage bonus granted by the Defensive AA Fire consumable lowered from +200% to +100%.

This is fair enough although the issue with someone rushing you is still there.

1 hour ago, Kami said:

Tier X American destroyer Somers:

  • Main caliber guns reload time increased from 5 to 6 seconds.

The efficiency of the main caliber guns was too great for the torpedo-focused destroyer.

Fair enough too, although I'm afraid they will buff torp reload again.

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8 minutes ago, wstugamd said:

So the Somers is really just a shimi? 

Basically yes.

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Just now, Skuggsja said:

Couldn't it just be that she has a major lead in survivability, something a lot of people complain about with CVs?  

I mean, they're see the stats. We just see some CC tell us it's good or bad in their opinion and a single cherry picked game.

Indeed Siegfried is currently the most durable supercruiser at T9. But if you look at WG's short oneliner which explains and justifies the change, you won't see any motive there that would represent balance. It literally says that they are aligning her stats to those of regular cruisers.

I have played Siegfried for ~15 games so far. My impression and the given feedback was that she is perfectly balanced and in no need of any changes. Seems like WG did not agree with me.

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49 minutes ago, SireneRacker said:

This change does not really make sense.

On the one hand you align her Repair Party count with that of other cruisers, but at the other time you align the torpedoes with those of high tier German cruisers?

For one, the Repair Party count of the high tier German cruisers is three by default. So you actually threw her out of the line with this change.

Secondly, the torpedorange of the other German thicc cruiser (Graf Spee) is 8km.

But let's give benefit of the doubt, you disagree with how I see things. Alright. Then what is the purpose of this change? You want to align her characteristics (note, characteristics, not her performance. Nowhere does it say that this change is driven by the desire to balance Siegfried) to that of other ships. Then why not do that to begin with? Neither the Repair Party count, nor the torpedostats of German tech tree ships underwent some drastic change within the last few weeks.

As it looks, this seems like a random change. As in changing something about Siegfried for the sake of it, but still trying to give a reason.

I’ll add my agreement to this. Granted, I haven’t seen WG’s stats, so maybe she needs a nerf of some sort, but WG’s justification for these changes, especially the reduction in the number of Repair Parties, makes NO sense.

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13 minutes ago, alexf24 said:

Basically yes.

I get premiums aren’t supposed to be better than the tech tree and it shouldn’t be pay to win. But Somers is all around a terrible Gearing. The only advantage is 3 torp launchers vs 2 but dang 6 sec gun reload. 4 to 4.5 with the long torp reload. I won’t be spending Steel on that

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2 hours ago, Kami said:

Tier IX German cruiser Siegfried:

  • Number of charges for the Repair Party consumable lowered from 3 to 2.
  • Torpedo range lowered from 8 to 6 km.

Number of the Repair party consumables were aligned with the standard values for cruisers, and torpedo range was aligned with the values of high-tier German cruisers and battleships. 

The disappointing armor was already making me leery.  It doesn't even have a Hipper-style bow belt. 

These changes to the RP and torps have Siegfried slipping from "still cautiously considering" toward "nevermind, hard pass".

 

The "supercruisers" are running a disappointing zero for whatever so far, especially at the artificially inflated prices -- none of them is worth what we're being asked to pay for them. 

 

 

Edited by KilljoyCutter
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Alright WG I see that the Siegfried isn't supposed to be the tankiest BC so you've nerfed survivability. I also get that 8km torps was Graf Spee's big thing. But you guys forgot you're supposed to increase the main battery DPM in some way to offset these significant nerfs. The Siegfried should have either the Gneisenau's bow armor plate, faster reload, or something else. I get that guns are unified across lines so the 380s will be the same regardless of the tier or ship. But What makes Siegfried worth playing if it's not survivable, doesn't do damage against anything but a flat cruiser broadside, has the same torps as the bulk of the other Germans, and only has 6 guns? What's the gimmick? It doesn't even have different consumables than the tech tree Germans, which I'm not complaining about frankly I love the German Hydro/Def AA>Fighter/Spotter>Repair Party combo, I'm just confused.  

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1 hour ago, Kami said:

Please note that the information in the Development Blog is preliminary.

 

Tier IX German cruiser Siegfried:

  • Number of charges for the Repair Party consumable lowered from 3 to 2.
  • Torpedo range lowered from 8 to 6 km.

Number of the Repair party consumables were aligned with the standard values for cruisers, and torpedo range was aligned with the values of high-tier German cruisers and battleships. 

 

Please note that the information in the Development Blog is preliminary.

I have to agree with others here.

The reasoning given is inconsistent with German high tier cruisers and the torpedo range alteration is inconsistent with the Siegfried's closest comparative faction analogue the Graf Spee.

It is also highly inconsistent with other Super Cruisers and their accompanying tech trees, Azuma does not possess torpedoes, inconsistent with the IJN Cruiser line. Yoshino possesses the option to mount 20km torpedoes, again inconsistent with the Cruiser line. Azuma possesses altered healing capacity to IJN Cruisers, again inconsistent with the IJN Cruiser line.

 

These changes are not justifiable with the "aligning with standard values for ...." as there is no consistency or precedent for this.

If there is an actual balance or performance concern justifying these changes actually say that. The current reasoning breaks down under any scrutiny.

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Am I crazy for wanting to try out Le Terrible without Last Stand after those changes?
It would free up 2 points for (buffed) EM which should make the gun handling way more comfortable.
I hope that the reduced chance of incapacitations plus PM captain skill and smart usage of DCP will be enough.

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This is a disgraceful change to the Siegfried - a ship who, as far as I can tell, no CC outside of Notser has been even remotely impressed by even before this enormous nerf. Can you please reconcile, Kami, how a vessel like Siegfried can be considered balanced for-tier in this state when compared to an overpowered joke like Stalingrad?

This was the first ship I was interested in buy in the last 6 months, and you've obliterated it.

Edited by Battleship_Elisabeth
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2 hours ago, Kami said:

Tier IX German cruiser Siegfried:

  • Number of charges for the Repair Party consumable lowered from 3 to 2.
  • Torpedo range lowered from 8 to 6 km.

Number of the Repair party consumables were aligned with the standard values for cruisers, and torpedo range was aligned with the values of high-tier German cruisers and battleships. 

 

I will have whatever you guys are smoking. Because WG is clearly high

Having tested her on the live server, she was fine the way it was. And i was thinking of getting her for free exp or coal in the near future. but after this change, she seem like a hard pass now

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16 minutes ago, MajorRenegade said:

I will have whatever you guys are smoking. Because WG is clearly high

Having tested her on the live server, she was fine the way it was. And i was thinking of getting her for free exp or coal in the near future. but after this change, she seem like a hard pass now

Siggy looked a little under-armored to me, lacking the German bow belt for example, but I was willing to be talked into changing my mind on that score (by anyone who didn't start their post with "you're an idiot" or "you want BB armor")...

But with the changes detailed here, and the armor as-is, there's now no reason to bother with Siggy, especially at the inflated price all these ships are being pushed at.

 

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9 minutes ago, Battleship_Elisabeth said:

This is a disgraceful change to the Siegfried - a ship who, as far as I can tell, no CC outside of Notser has been even remotely impressed by even before this enormous nerf.

She's Gneisenau with some tricks to put her at Tier 9. This had the potential to be dodgy from the start, as interesting as the idea of a high-tier German supercruiser seemed at first.

 

2 hours ago, Herr_Reitz said:

It'd help reduce some of the absurd hysteria people have about unlimited aircraft for sure. 

Nothing will do that. Those people are just looking for a straw to grasp in order to fuel their delusional rage against carriers.

The torpedo reloads on the low-tier French destroyers have been buffed to insanely short levels. If this stays, I think I'm going to enjoy them in co-op A LOT on the way to higher tiers. I suspect we will see quite a few people jumping directly from the Fusilier to the Bourrasque without ever actually mounting the B hull.  I imagine the reason for not including the Aigle in the module survivability buff is because she has a smoke screen. 

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3 minutes ago, Ensign_Cthulhu said:

She's Gneisenau with some tricks to put her at Tier 9. This had the potential to be dodgy from the start, as interesting as the idea of a high-tier German supercruiser seemed at first.

If Siggy had anything even remotely close Gneisenau's armor, but all the other cruiser stuff, I'd be waiting with my mouse in hand to hit the "PURCHASE" button in game.

 

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Why was Somers with its main battery of eight 5" guns versus the usual six made a torpedo-focused destroyer? It seems to like it would make more sense if it had a somewhat powerful gun armament than Gearing in exchange for longer torpedo reload times and very bad AAA.

I have little doubt that players using it will still complain about that awful AAA and demand a CV nerf despite that being a known weakness of the class as built in real life.

I'll never have the excess resources to get it but it seems like an odd choice.

Edited by Lampshade_M1A2

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2 hours ago, Kami said:

Tier IX German cruiser Siegfried:

  • Number of charges for the Repair Party consumable lowered from 3 to 2.
  • Torpedo range lowered from 8 to 6 km.

Graf Spee and Gneisenau are two of my favorite ships.

Both for their History and their torps and DESPITE the 6 gun count.

Siegfried does not come with any 'History' as it is only a paper ship with 6 guns and a somewhat sluggish reload.

But the 8km torps and decent heals pushed her for me to T9 Gneis status.

So I stopped spending coal and FXP to get ready for her. Even had my Visa credit limit raised just in case...

But with those changes I stick with my Graf Spee and Gneisenau and use my Visa card to some day visit Montevideo :-)

 

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1 hour ago, MajorRenegade said:

I will have whatever you guys are smoking. Because WG is clearly high

Having tested her on the live server, she was fine the way it was. And i was thinking of getting her for free exp or coal in the near future. but after this change, she seem like a hard pass now

Hey

Had this been a Russian boat; it would have only received buffs even further; being German (or Japanese) that can't be tolerated.  Nerf it into oblivion so nobody wants it.

 

Pete

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