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Asym_KS

Event Burnout - Does it affect Sales?

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I turned on the trusty computer and opened WoWs and looked at where I am in this event:

6 Daily Missions to go and

6 Million SB Credits to earn......

And that, will be the end of this evolution of training......Oh God, please let this be over.....

It's just too much..........  Good grief.  I seriously wanted to see just how long it would take to grind this event !  And, it's hundreds and hundreds of mind numbing Savage Battles I could care less about....  It's so bad, yesterday, players were loading SB and simply driving in a straight line, ignoring everything and dying as fast as they could to "get this over with....."  It that what this is supposed to a definition of "quality?"   What I do know is that I am NOT interested in buying anything after this.

In fact, it's time to take a break and walk away for a few days.  If the goal is to encourage sales, well, I can say I'm not at all interested.......

What are your thoughts?  Too long a path to take for the Hill and Benham?

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1 minute ago, Asym_KS said:

And that, will be the end of this evolution of training......Oh God, please let this be over.....

My advice would be. play to the point where you are no longer having fun, then press the exit game button.

Look at it as if you had work to do around the house, fixing the slates on the roof, all is going well and you are pleased with your progress, but then the rain starts, would you carry on, I doubt it, you would wait until it was the right time to finish the work.

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Played the event enough to get 8 of the 9 ships, but got to the point where I spent my savage tokens on credits because the likelihood of me actually staying engaged long enough to get to 850 was dwindling quickly. My thoughts on the Hill grind are that if it happens, it happens. I'm more of a cruiser guy anyway (though I did pick up the Sims the other day on the summer sale and she's wicked-fun), so I don't care enough about the ship itself to really put in the effort like I did to get the Graf Spee. Having said that, I will be pleasantly surprised if I do get it and will play her from time to time for the heck of it just like I do with the Exeter. There is an amount of internal pride that comes from earning a ship in this way though. I enjoy that we get premium ship events like this. It definitely reengages me with the game if I think the ship is cool. 

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For me, recovering from long grinds is taking way longer than I expected.  I was burnt out after the PEF, Christmas, then Exeter grinds. I went from playing 10 randoms a day to 5 a month. In June I started scenarios and coop just to play at a low intensity. I am just now starting to dabble back into randoms and I find I play 1 or 2 then walk away, the game doesn't have a hold of me like it used to. 

I wont be doing any more grinds, they aren't worth it. 

I hope the OPs recovery is quicker than mine was. 

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The secret with in game events is to pick and choose which ones you like, and avoid the rest. 

I had a hard time accepting that I wouldn't get every event completed back when I was playing MWO, but now I find it quite easy. Benham and Hill might be fun boats, but I won't spend all my free time fighting to earn them, just to not play them much in the end...

I think I have barely played Graf Spee at all, and even Exeter(a ship I love) is rarely touched. More money, fxp, etc. to be made running T10s. 

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At first I thought Savage Battles was the worst part, and wondered how I would ever grind all the credits. Turned out it took me less than a week. It turns out once you get a three star boat, and a three player division, that mode is a lot of fun, and this is from someone who has only played around 100 Random DD games (i have over 6,00 BB/CA/CL games).

To me, the worst part was having to do the Daily Mission every day. I finished early last night and played Fallout 76 for the first time in almost a month. One of the guys I play with advanced 80 levels since I last logged in. I really enjoy WoW, but don't want to play every day. I know I could have bought tokens, or just given up on the Benham, but I like a good challenge. I could do this one, I just didn't enjoy it.

I think Wargaming screwed up this grind. I am sure they will look at their spreadsheets and figure out how it affected profits.

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7 minutes ago, DustRhino said:

At first I thought Savage Battles was the worst part, and wondered how I would ever grind all the credits. Turned out it took me less than a week. It turns out once you get a three star boat, and a three player division, that mode is a lot of fun, and this is from someone who has only played around 100 Random DD games (i have over 6,00 BB/CA/CL games).

To me, the worst part was having to do the Daily Mission every day. I finished early last night and played Fallout 76 for the first time in almost a month. One of the guys I play with advanced 80 levels since I last logged in. I really enjoy WoW, but don't want to play every day. I know I could have bought tokens, or just given up on the Benham, but I like a good challenge. I could do this one, I just didn't enjoy it.

I think Wargaming screwed up this grind. I am sure they will look at their spreadsheets and figure out how it affected profits.

Completely off topic, but did Fallout 76 recover from the clusterfornication it was at launch? The trailers and demos I saw for it looked cool, but from what I heard after it went live it seemed like lots of problems remained.

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I got the Hill yesterday. She's a fun little ship, but Tier 5 is, after all, Tier 5. I like the option of not having to have the apocalyptic camo and instead normal perma-flauge. 

This grind is really something though. I sorted through math and came to some obvious conclusions. To get the Benham for free...... ( if I am off on this please correct )

~ We all know or at least suspect this was tied to loot boxes and to their credit WG tells us how many fuel tokens are in each. That said doing all 48 missions gives you 100FT + 1 for each mission so 148FT. Miss more than 6 days of 2 x daily missions you are out of luck and will have to buy crates or win a contest to get over,

~ IF you want the Benham, you MUST do the 2 x event missions for 150FT each for a total of 300FT. That includes the grinds mentioned in the above posts. 

~ Again, for the Benham you must do all 4 of the Rogue Wave events at 5 directives each. The last of these involve big numbers like 20K Base XP. Totaled this will give you 400FT and some nice prizes, the Hill and good stuff. Miss some? Reach for your wallet!

So combined this would give you 848FT IF and only if you completed ALL the main directives. If you missed any you're out of luck.

I think the narrow margin of slack (aka missed time ) is the kicker here. I don't think it's fair to most ( casual )players, but I also understand the motive for profit that all companies have. That's not necessarily a bad thing.

As an aside, I believe if the requirement to WIN battles and get 'x' base exp were change to just get base xp I think more players would find the dailies to be much more do - able.

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4 hours ago, KaptainNemo_1 said:

Completely off topic, but did Fallout 76 recover from the clusterfornication it was at launch? The trailers and demos I saw for it looked cool, but from what I heard after it went live it seemed like lots of problems remained.

I think so. the haters are still going to hate, but they fixed bugs, made balance changes, added quality if life features, and lost of new content. I have not played the Battles Royale mode, but people say it is very well done. A great feature was player vending machines. Now you can offer legendary items, and plans you don't need and offer for sale at your camp. Mine is full of plans that I sell for 50% off the cost of the NPC vendors. I do it as much to help other players as to make caps. 

Also, Bethesda announced the DLC (free) in the Fall will add human NPC characters with dialogue choices. This is tougher than it seems in multiplayers. What if another player kills an NPC you need for a quest? Making NPC characters immortal is not immersive. Seems all NPC will be in instance areas, so you are the only players that can interact with the character in your instance. 

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3 hours ago, Zilla said:

I got the Hill yesterday. She's a fun little ship, but Tier 5 is, after all, Tier 5. I like the option of not having to have the apocalyptic camo and instead normal perma-flauge. 

This grind is really something though. I sorted through math and came to some obvious conclusions. To get the Benham for free...... ( if I am off on this please correct )

~ We all know or at least suspect this was tied to loot boxes and to their credit WG tells us how many fuel tokens are in each. That said doing all 48 missions gives you 100FT + 1 for each mission so 148FT. Miss more than 6 days of 2 x daily missions you are out of luck and will have to buy crates or win a contest to get over,

~ IF you want the Benham, you MUST do the 2 x event missions for 150FT each for a total of 300FT. That includes the grinds mentioned in the above posts. 

~ Again, for the Benham you must do all 4 of the Rogue Wave events at 5 directives each. The last of these involve big numbers like 20K Base XP. Totaled this will give you 400FT and some nice prizes, the Hill and good stuff. Miss some? Reach for your wallet!

So combined this would give you 848FT IF and only if you completed ALL the main directives. If you missed any you're out of luck.

I think the narrow margin of slack (aka missed time ) is the kicker here. I don't think it's fair to most ( casual )players, but I also understand the motive for profit that all companies have. That's not necessarily a bad thing.

As an aside, I believe if the requirement to WIN battles and get 'x' base exp were change to just get base xp I think more players would find the dailies to be much more do - able.

While I agree it was a grind (I am almost finished), I think there are a number of errors in your math.

There were 25 days at 2 Chain missions per day. Each chain provided 3 tokens each, for 150 total. A bonus 100 for finishing 48 or 50. I hate anything tied to wins. I have played a lot of Coop over the last few months just because the win is nearly guaranteed. 

Of the directives, you had to complete 5 of 10 tasks each. This could be all Savage Battles, all regular game mode, or a combination. The 20k Base XP was the last directive, and you didn't have to do it if you did a few of the Savage Battles takes. The mix I did allowed me to only do Cruiser Base XP. I think it took me a little more than two days.

I didn't like the grind. The directives were tough, but fair for a premium T5 and T9. If you liked Savage Battles, the credit missions were easy. It took me less than a week to earn all the millions of credits. If you hated SB, you were out of luck.

We will see what Wargaming learns from the experience. I think they did not organize the event well; too many people gave up on day one. An optimal experience would probably have been for many to think they could do it, fall short, and pay maybe half the cost of a T9 ($35 USD) to complete the grind, and walk away thinking they got a good deal.

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It seems like WG thinks that turning up the grind will encourage spending by people who want to skip the grind.

The increasing grindiness of events and directives is one of the reasons I just stopped spending money on the game.

 

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5 hours ago, Asym_KS said:

I turned on the trusty computer and opened WoWs and looked at where I am in this event:

6 Daily Missions to go and

6 Million SB Credits to earn......

And that, will be the end of this evolution of training......Oh God, please let this be over.....

It's just too much..........  Good grief.  I seriously wanted to see just how long it would take to grind this event !  And, it's hundreds and hundreds of mind numbing Savage Battles I could care less about....  It's so bad, yesterday, players were loading SB and simply driving in a straight line, ignoring everything and dying as fast as they could to "get this over with....."  It that what this is supposed to a definition of "quality?"   What I do know is that I am NOT interested in buying anything after this.

In fact, it's time to take a break and walk away for a few days.  If the goal is to encourage sales, well, I can say I'm not at all interested.......

What are your thoughts?  Too long a path to take for the Hill and Benham?



In the spring of '18 WG ramped up the number and frequency of "activities". By the fall of '18 I was burnt on what I called the "fire hose of marketing". So yes... mission burnout affected me, and added tot he reasons I just walked away from the game. The constant pressure to "keep up" was more that was reasonable.  This mode of gaming gets old no matter who does it.  The formula is burning out.

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5 hours ago, Asym_KS said:

I turned on the trusty computer and opened WoWs and looked at where I am in this event:

6 Daily Missions to go and

6 Million SB Credits to earn......

And that, will be the end of this evolution of training......Oh God, please let this be over.....

It's just too much..........  Good grief.  I seriously wanted to see just how long it would take to grind this event !  And, it's hundreds and hundreds of mind numbing Savage Battles I could care less about....  It's so bad, yesterday, players were loading SB and simply driving in a straight line, ignoring everything and dying as fast as they could to "get this over with....."  It that what this is supposed to a definition of "quality?"   What I do know is that I am NOT interested in buying anything after this.

In fact, it's time to take a break and walk away for a few days.  If the goal is to encourage sales, well, I can say I'm not at all interested.......

What are your thoughts?  Too long a path to take for the Hill and Benham?

Again, ask yourself why it feels like a grind.

There are lots of players in this game that had the missions done, even both parts of the economic missions with the last phase requiring 6 million SB credits done in the first week the event went live.  And they only played a couple hours a day to get there.  Think about how massive the gap is then between skilled players and those that struggle with the game.  And the skilled players get the SB daily done in less than 2 hours.  Even less when ranked sprint was going on because the battle durations are often shorter.  Heck you can even grind them out in co-op fairly quickly if you can't hack it in randoms to get wins 50% or more of the time.

If you don't want missions to feel like a grind, you need to be more productive in the game.  It's all relative.

Notice that the louder someone complains about difficulties in the game or how grindy something is, the lower their performance history or the more likely they hide their stats.  Do you not notice that?

Edited by A_Burning_Sensation
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No, we don't notice that, because it's largely not true, outside of the very bottom fraction of players. 

The biggest difference maker for even marginally average players is spending on premium, camos, flags, etc -- not player performance. 

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I enjoy the long grinds and working toward long term goals in the game.  When I get my Benham in the next two days, I will remember the road to obtain it fondly, when I play it.

I understand that I am an outlier in this opinion.

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5 hours ago, Asym_KS said:

I turned on the trusty computer and opened WoWs and looked at where I am in this event:

6 Daily Missions to go and

6 Million SB Credits to earn......

And that, will be the end of this evolution of training......Oh God, please let this be over.....

It's just too much..........  Good grief.  I seriously wanted to see just how long it would take to grind this event !  And, it's hundreds and hundreds of mind numbing Savage Battles I could care less about....  It's so bad, yesterday, players were loading SB and simply driving in a straight line, ignoring everything and dying as fast as they could to "get this over with....."  It that what this is supposed to a definition of "quality?"   What I do know is that I am NOT interested in buying anything after this.

In fact, it's time to take a break and walk away for a few days.  If the goal is to encourage sales, well, I can say I'm not at all interested.......

What are your thoughts?  Too long a path to take for the Hill and Benham?

That is a tough one. 

Does grinds get old? Yes, does it make me want to take a break? Yes. Do I like the opportunity to get a tier 9 prem for free? Yes.

As long as these events are to often I enjoy them.

Good new the French event is a pretty easy and no pressure event.

As far as the Savage event goes. The grind for the Hill was easy, the grind for the Benham was hard but for a tier 9 , well it should be hard to get. So I am OK with it. 

You just have to evaluate each event and make your choice. Most events provide a lot of extra goodies for just playing normally. 

Do manage your efforts so you do not burn out.

cheers.

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10 minutes ago, KilljoyCutter said:

No, we don't notice that, because it's largely not true, outside of the very bottom fraction of players. 

The biggest difference maker for even marginally average players is spending on premium, camos, flags, etc -- not player performance. 

You're missing the point.  I'm talking about players complaining on the forums.  Skilled players get the missions done and don't complain.  You don't see unicum players whining about difficulty overcoming game mechanics or completing mission objectives.  The overwhelming majority of players complaining are average and below average players and the louder they complain, like I said, the lower they tend to be on the performance meter and, like the OP, more likely to hide their stats.

I also notice that poor performers tend to lack the awareness to even see the difference in linguistic style, and the attitude that drives that style, between those that get $&^* done and those that don't.  Because it's blatantly apparent.

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6 minutes ago, Burnsy said:

I enjoy the long grinds and working toward long term goals in the game.  When I get my Benham in the next two days, I will remember the road to obtain it fondly, when I play it.

I understand that I am an outlier in this opinion.

I don't mind putting some work in for a free ship. 

But at the end of the day, this is a game, and when it crosses the line into feeling like a second job due to the specific demands or overall scale of a grind, it ceases to be that one thing a game must be -- fun

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Just now, A_Burning_Sensation said:

You're missing the point.  I'm talking about players complaining on the forums.  Skilled players get the missions done and don't complain.  You don't see unicum players whining about difficulty overcoming game mechanics or completing mission objectives.  The overwhelming majority of players complaining are average and below average players and the louder they complain, like I said, the lower they tend to be on the performance meter and, like the OP, more likely to hide their stats.

I also notice that poor performers tend to lack the awareness to even see the difference in linguistic style, and the attitude that drives that style, between those that get $&^* done and those that don't.  Because it's blatantly apparent.

I'm going to tell you what you're evidently desperate to hear.

Your epeen is huge.

:Smile_smile:

 

 

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6 minutes ago, A_Burning_Sensation said:

You're missing the point.  I'm talking about players complaining on the forums.  Skilled players get the missions done and don't complain.  You don't see unicum players whining about difficulty overcoming game mechanics or completing mission objectives.  The overwhelming majority of players complaining are average and below average players and the louder they complain, like I said, the lower they tend to be on the performance meter and, like the OP, more likely to hide their stats.

I also notice that poor performers tend to lack the awareness to even see the difference in linguistic style, and the attitude that drives that style, between those that get $&^* done and those that don't.  Because it's blatantly apparent.

I am not unicum or some super fantastic player.

I get through the grinds by sheer force.  Throw everything at the wall, see what sticks.  Pickup what falls off and throw it again.  It will eventually stick.

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For me, like that the game offers opportunity for individuals to get free premiums, especially if you are trying not to spend money, those free premiums can be useful in generating credits or for Captain training as you are grinding up the tech trees.  I have a number of event premiums, some “Meh” ships that I really have not played much once the event is over (PEF, Exeter, Aigle), others that are quality ships that I play a little more often (Spee, Cossack, Irwin, Takeo, DOY).  

This event seemed to be a bit beyond that.  While I can understand creating a high bar for a tier 9 premium, thought that to many design elements were intended to have players spend money.  Those that have made it to the top by powering though the requirements, my hat is off to you.  Since I found I did not like the SB mode, am not presently running Premium time, and was gone a few days in the month, that the ships were not worth the Herculean effort I would need to put in and I would still likely be short and have to spend $$$ to get some fuel Tokens.  I also have 150 ships, and am in a different point in the game where I don’t need to chase new ships.  

Again, congrats to those individuals who have made the grind...

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Fair for a T9, godawful if you decided (as I did) that Benham was out of reach or not desirable and the T5 was all you wanted. There ought to have been an easier path to that. 

Looking back, I see that if I'd dropped everything else to pound out Savage Battles (as I have been doing the past few days to bypass the tech-tree 20K FXP and base XP grinds) I might have made it. I'm surprised at the progress I made through the first of the cash grinds. However, a long stretch of 200% first-win bonuses was just too good to pass up to finish off or advance some tech-tree grinds I was working on, so I left my Savage Battles run too late and was playing too many battles in level 1 ships against experienced opponents in Level 3's.

Part of all this is that I don't have as much evening time to play as some of us; I have kids, a wife, and other things to do. I accept that that was going to stand in the way of the shiny T9. That's not WG's problem. But the T5 was still far more of a :etc_swear: to get than other ships I've earned at similar tiers. 

20 minutes ago, Burnsy said:

When I get my Benham in the next two days, I will remember the road to obtain it fondly, when I play it.

I'm not getting mine, as above, but I know how you feel because I feel the same way about my Vampire, my Indianapolis and my Cossack. All three were, when I completed them, difficult grinds for me (especially the Indy). I'm not sure I ever want to do an Indianapolis-type grind again, but completing it had ramifications that went well beyond just winning the ship, and which made the post-event Randoms Burnout I suffered worth it in the long run.

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27 minutes ago, KilljoyCutter said:

I'm going to tell you what you're evidently desperate to hear.

Your epeen is huge.

:Smile_smile:

 

 

And those that rush to the defense of underperformers and/or those that complain/whine and hide their stats tend to also be underperformers themselves who also have a higher likelihood of hiding their stats.  And thank you for proving that point as well.

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55 minutes ago, A_Burning_Sensation said:

Again, ask yourself why it feels like a grind.

There are lots of players in this game that had the missions done, even both parts of the economic missions with the last phase requiring 6 million SB credits done in the first week the event went live.  And they only played a couple hours a day to get there.  Think about how massive the gap is then between skilled players and those that struggle with the game.  And the skilled players get the SB daily done in less than 2 hours.  Even less when ranked sprint was going on because the battle durations are often shorter.  Heck you can even grind them out in co-op fairly quickly if you can't hack it in randoms to get wins 50% or more of the time.

If you don't want missions to feel like a grind, you need to be more productive in the game.  It's all relative.

Notice that the louder someone complains about difficulties in the game or how grindy something is, the lower their performance history or the more likely they hide their stats.  Do you not notice that?

Oh-Kay, a stat shamer..  Poor form, very poor form.   The topic isn't "how good I am"!  The topic is: is our host pushing events too far and does that affect sales?  And, I am an average (47%) player with thousands of games.....  I have 3,954 COOP games, 4,812 Random games at 47% and 112 Ranked games at 53%.  And, untold thousands of non counted games (we play a lot of scenarios - 5 last night......)  Does that make a difference???

IMO, it negatively affects sales and reduces my willingness to play the game itself.  A majority of the players in this game aren't top 10 performers..........we're just "average folk" whom have an hour or two a night to "have some fun...."  This isn't a part time event....for, average players and that, is a huge mistake......IMO.

I took on the challenge of seriously trying to "grind the entire event".....  To include playing a game mode I out right hate: Savage Battle.....  Just to see what it "feels like;" and, if it is even possible to do as an average player....

 

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