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carne

Did ramming change?

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I rammed a Mino today both of us Bow on and we pretty much stopped for half a seconds then damage started ticking down instead of one large chunk of damage.  I have never had this happen before during a ram generally the ships just go boom. Attached the replay it happens 13 minutes into the game. I did not have a ramming flag equipped.

20190717_181327_PASC020-Des-Moines-1948_37_Ridge.wowsreplay

Edited by carne

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I rammed a DD who had twice the Health I had. Looked like my health was subtracted from his. He flooded but repaired quick. We both commented that this was a first for both of us. 

I was sunk. 

Edited by Toxic_Potato

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rammed dd with cruiser today, he was around quarter health and i was about half we both died ...   :Smile_facepalm:

no idea how it figures who loses what

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yeah i was in savage battle and i was turning away from a dd and my butt lightly tapped the nose of the enemy dd and my health dropped 30% and the white space in hp bar increased in size as we kept contact

i had ramming flag on, so his hp drop was much faster than mine, and i managed to sink him and then repair my flood

 

that was 2 weeks ago

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1 hour ago, carne said:

I rammed a Mino today both of us Bow on and we pretty much stopped for half a seconds then damage started ticking down instead of one large chunk of damage.  I have never had this happen before during a ram generally the ships just go boom. Attached the replay it happens 13 minutes into the game. I did not have a ramming flag equipped.

20190717_181327_PASC020-Des-Moines-1948_37_Ridge.wowsreplay

I watched it, that's a really weird one.  Usually head on rams with sufficient speed, the effects for both ships are immediate.  From your description, I thought you both ended up doing one of those low speed scrapes, where the two ships for example, are sailing alongside but contacting.  I've seen that happen several times and in those cases, you can see the HP grinding down for both ships.

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So I took my Mino into training room against some Shimakazes. Mainly because of Mino heal and the fact that I could ram 2 Shimas in a row and live assuming what we know regarding ramming.

What I believed and what I assume others generally believe is ships deal their total HP in damage as a ram regardless of their current remaining HP, so for the bot Shimas that would be 17,900. This of course excludes the ramming flag, which my Mino is not running.

I had 5 enemy Shimas.

I chose to ram bow on as perfectly straight as possible, then T bone, then stern on as perfectly straight as possible, then T-bone again, then bow on lastly as straight as possible.

The first screenshot in the spoiler I want to draw attention to, I have ram killed 4 enemy Shimas, without firing a shot or even using a heal. Finally note I received zero flooding damage from this exercise.

Replay attached at bottom.

Spoiler

shot-19_07.18_14_29.09-0868.thumb.jpg.5a0b9a0c62af8d98f14828d7b8d0e359.jpg

shot-19_07.18_14_31.11-0317.thumb.jpg.da1f0a108cdc368ac9e7a37eab58a5c2.jpg

shot-19_07.18_14_31.25-0845.thumb.jpg.b2b85677be960e87f01a461dd400910c.jpg

20190718_141815_PBSC110-Minotaur_33_new_tierra.wowsreplay

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Nah, weird stuff like that happens from time to time with rams there's some explanation for it but hell if I remember it at 3 in the morning. 

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I think speed of the ram has something to do with it.

If you touch gently or touch while passing each other by (as opposed to ram head-on) the HP starts slowly draining on both ships.

Whereas if you come in at speed, the death is instant.

But this is nothing new I believe, I've been seeing this behaviour for a while now.

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Ramming seems to be a lot more complex than it used to be with the introduction of Savage Battles.

Before it was a binary 'fast' dealt your respective full hp pools to each other immediately  and only possibly modified by hotel yankee while 'slow' dealt a steady percentage stream to both ships equally until one ship sank.

Now it seems that the calculation takes into account which ship is actually doing the ram and deals variable damage to the rammer and rammed depending on more factors than just speed considering I've rammed with the HY on unflagged ships at 'middling' speeds with half or more health and sunk them while basically taking 1-2k damage... i.e. a LOT less than HY's stated reduction should account for.

Would be nice to get some confirmation from WG if they changed the ramming mechanic for SB... or maybe this is a bug... or maybe everything is as before and it's just people over or underestimating their actual speed and such.

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18 minutes ago, yacskn said:

I think speed of the ram has something to do with it.

If you touch gently or touch while passing each other by (as opposed to ram head-on) the HP starts slowly draining on both ships.

Whereas if you come in at speed, the death is instant.

But this is nothing new I believe, I've been seeing this behaviour for a while now.

Curious though, in my Mino I rammed Shimas head on at full speed and the death was not instant. (Disclaimer the Shima was stationary)

In one case the ram was long enough for me to inflict flooding twice after the Shima Damaconned if I recall correctly how that played out.

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59 minutes ago, lloyd1701 said:

Ramming seems to be a lot more complex than it used to be with the introduction of Savage Battles.

 

I Think something in the code mess with random and other matches because of something in savage.

Ever since Savage start ramming get weird,

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Did a couple more tests (edit added in Blysk tests and Daring tests) revealing more oddities.

Conqueror vs Zao

Direct bow on took 14,717 damage

T-bone direct midsection 24, 974 damage

Direct stern 12,403

Direct bow 12,537

I deviate here and hit the rear half at an angle, 19,212

Again deviate and hit the front half at an angle, 24, 056

Did Conq vs Kremlin, outcome predictable but interestingly took several seconds and had I popped the heal earlier I could have lasted longer, what is interesting to note is that the damage ramps up as a slide along gradually moving away from the tip of the bow.

Conq vs 3 moving Zaos

First Zao the damage looked spot on as it should be

The next 2 required a bit of chasing but the 2nd one dealt close to max but noticeably not 40,800.

The third one dealt even less, below 20,00 IIRC.

Did a couple of Blysk test games vs a moving New Mex.

1st game went as expected, not quite perfect head on but damage dealt was appropriate.

2nd game I T-boned the moving New Mex and dealt only 6,100 damage roughly, significantly below my HP.

Followed up with 2 Daring tests against Shimas.

1st test, 1st Shima was perfect bow on, damage dealt was appropriate. I was lazy and didn't math so I sat around hoping my heals would prop me up enough to survive a second test ram. They were not. But importantly the second test ram was stern on and in fact the collision dealt almost no damage and displaced the ships enough that I started sailing past without colliding, until i turned in which resulted in mutual death.

2nd test game I started with a stern on collision with a Shima, this resulted in my Daring taking approximately 23,000 damage (Capt has SE), significantly more HP than the Shima has. second collision I went and T-boned a Shima and only dealt approx 8,000 resulting in the second Shima living and my demise.

 

Edited by Meatshield_No13
More tests

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Thanks. This is quite interesting. I have noticed this in Narai where I ram the little transport while I am killing the large transport, but the damage varies each time.

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5 hours ago, Ozium said:

rammed dd with cruiser today, he was around quarter health and i was about half we both died ...   :Smile_facepalm:

no idea how it figures who loses what

If it's a full ram (modifications can include speed and other things) then each ship inflicts damage equal to its full health pool, regardless of how much health it currently has. So, yeah, you both died. He clearly died, because your cruiser has a larger health pool than a destroyer, and you died because he did a full destroyer's worth of damage to your half-health cruiser.

To survive a ram, you've got to be in a beefier ship than your victim, and you've got to currently have more HP than your victim would have if he had full HP.

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This topic was covered about 2 weeks ago.
Yes, ramming changed.
I call it a ninja nerf.
WG says it's a bug.

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10 hours ago, carne said:

I rammed a Mino today both of us Bow on and we pretty much stopped for half a seconds then damage started ticking down instead of one large chunk of damage.  I have never had this happen before during a ram generally the ships just go boom. Attached the replay it happens 13 minutes into the game. I did not have a ramming flag equipped.

20190717_181327_PASC020-Des-Moines-1948_37_Ridge.wowsreplay

It feels like lag when it happens.

In Savage Battle I rammed another DD, and we just stopped.  This wasn't that slow "poke", we were gunning for each other, collided, and our ships bounced up and down.  After 4 seconds later we both just exploded.... not even sure we were still touching [ships] at that point.

Edited by turdjelly

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7 hours ago, Incomitatus said:

To survive a ram, you've got to be in a beefier ship than your victim, and you've got to currently have more HP than your victim would have if he had full HP

ahh, thanks

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Ramming in this game has always been silly. The amount of damage a ship does in a ram should always be equal to its remaining HP. If your 30k hp cruiser hits a 10k hp DD then the DD is sunk and your cruiser takes 10k damage.

If a BB on 1k health decides to ram as a last act of defiance, it should only do 1k damage... as that is how much of the ship is remaining.

It's simple, it's logical, it's straight forward... which is why it's not that way in game.

Edited by Gen_Saris

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6 hours ago, Gen_Saris said:

Ramming in this game has always been silly. The amount of damage a ship does in a ram should always be equal to its remaining HP. If your 30k hp cruiser hits a 10k hp DD then the DD is sunk and your cruiser takes 10k damage.

If a BB on 1k health decides to ram as a last act of defiance, it should only do 1k damage... as that is how much of the ship is remaining.

It's simple, it's logical, it's straight forward... which is why it's not that way in game.

What, no. Damage renders a shop combat ineffective by mangling bits of the ship. It doesn't generally blow chunks off. Ship mass stays the same.

Ramming is kinetic, mass against mass. Speed and angle should matter, HP should not.

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