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Sinboto

What's up with DDs holding their smoke with a CV coming.

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Right so I've given this a little bit of thought and I'm pretty confused about this. I'm an on-off CV player and I see this pretty often, I'll give you an example:

T6 match launch planes, only two objectives spot DD he turns his AA on only after being spotted (good job DD) I expect him to smoke up as I'm turning to get him but he...doesn't. ( Edit: I would like to point out this was the start of the match, as someone misunderstood me)

One run, two, three, now he's lost I'd say a third HP and he chooses NOW to use his smoke. 

 The same thing on my team sometimes in T8-10, the start of the match DD in the cap, see planes coming DD stays in the cap no smoke gets hit. 

I always wonder what that's about, I mean don't get me wrong it makes my job easier for sure but it's always a head scratch moment for me. 

Is there something I'm missing here, am I in the wrong?

Edited by Sinboto

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Keep hitting them. Some will learn from it. Others will not.

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Yeah, that is right up there with not maneuvering to lessen the attack.

giphy.gif

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Just now, BrushWolf said:

Yeah, that is right up there with not maneuvering to lessen the attack.

giphy.gif

To be fair, sometimes I don't bother when I'm against a unicum CV player because they're expecting me to evade and are great at head games and sometimes miss because they can't believe I'd be that stupid. It only works once, but hey, it at least works once!

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CV's can barely hit destroyers... with the exception of the RN level bombs, maybe the odd fighter squadron ... even then the damage is negligible.

Why waste smoke when a WASD hack fixes all?

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Yep, sailing almost exclusive USN DD's. Their smoke can be a life saver in CV matches. Before the latest AA buff I would load Superintendent plus premium consumable along with defensive fire. It helped a lot! 

Since the AA buff I've seen less CV games so traded defensive fire for speed boost.

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5 minutes ago, Wows_Nightly_News said:

They have to save it for when the radar cruiser shows up.

That's more accurate than it feels comfortable to admit.

On a more serious note, a DD  smoked up the moment a CV spots it finds itself with one wasted smoke out of a max of 4, stuck on the cooldown and potentially loses it's escape plan. Keep in mind that smoke is a pretty valuable consumable.

It all comes down to the player's decision and how he wishes to use his HP.

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Because for gunboat DDs, that smoke is precious. It gives them dispensation to let their guns fire continuously without reprise for a minute or more. If you've caught them in a situation where they'll be out of position while hiding in their smoke, then I can understand why many of them would be reluctant to pop the consumable right away. I'm not saying that they're making the right decision, but I can understand the mentality.

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Question comes down to early or late game use. Smoke up early and be out of smoke in the late game when its the difference between surviving with less 20% HP or being dead. No if you are a bottom tier DD vs top tier CV, doesn't really matter.

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It comes down to greed, they want their smoke for offensive uses like firing/capping.

They all know that most CV's will move on to another target if they smoke, up particularly early game. But that means they lose a smoke charge and are on cool down for a few minutes so capping becomes that much harder.

So they take a risk, get wacked once, then reassess their plan and use smoke, usually too late.

 

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17 minutes ago, Hermetica said:

To be fair, sometimes I don't bother when I'm against a unicum CV player because they're expecting me to evade and are great at head games and sometimes miss because they can't believe I'd be that stupid. It only works once, but hey, it at least works once!

The unicums are what most anti-CV rants are really about once you get done pulling teeth on the ranters.

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As a CV op, I can make 3 runs at a DD and only kill 1/3 of it's health at best.  Then I'm out of planes unless I drop perma-spot fighters.

If it's early in the game and my team isn't in firing range (or protected positions), they can just head for cover and wait me out.

If one of my cruisers lights up firing at that DD in the open, every enemy BB can focus and erase him with a salvo or two.

It's play, counter-play, counter-counter-play...   Cruiser players learn that too....  NOT IN THE OPEN THEY WON'T FIRE.  So I'm alone in my DD attacks and he's relatively safe.

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Plp fear the cv more then anything on this game

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When i'm in a DD at least early game and the CV is coming i go head to head to see what kind of player it is (unless the CV is +2 tiers above...then i am a bit cautious). With .8.5 and all the adjustments that have been made i can out maneuver CV players from average to potato. If i get hit hard with good maneuvers then i know i should be a bit careful. Rockets still hurt some but bombers and torp planes are pretty easy to avoid.  If I don't get hit that badly it's like a moth to a flame. The CV can't help but try over and over and I can keep the CV busy chasing his tail for a good long while usually so the rest of the team can not have to worry about CV.  It's good sport.   

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I think it depends on the player and the situation presented in that moment/match.

The few times I've been attacked by a CV in my DDs early game, I tend to not even turn my AA on(heck, sometimes I'll go all game without ever turning on my AA in a DD, and if the CV sinks me it's towards the end of that game). I'll maneuver towards the planes before they spot me, if they'll definitely spot me, then I wait until they've lost contact and then change course if they swing around to make a pass. My hope is that me going in a different direction will either mess up their attack or confuse them if they can't spot me again. If they do spot me and can complete an attack, then I'll turn my AA on to try and deter a second pass. Otherwise, I either stick relatively close to my cruisers (so the CV has to fly into their AA if they want to make a pass or turn around to make a pass), or turn towards one of them if planes are vectoring in my direction.

I find it easier to use smoke against CV planes in RN DDs too. The short duration and numerous charges make it the perfect tool for escaping aircraft detection and attention. Other DDs have longer smokes, and less charges, and depending on when in the game I'm potentially coming under attack, it might be better to risk some HP and save that smoke for an escape or to safely make a cap. I think it's important to keep in mind that if a DD blows his smoke on first contact from a CV, he can't cap and have a lesser risk of being reset by planes if his smoke is on cooldown (assuming there's no enemy radar near the cap to spot you anyway), so it could take longer for them/your team to secure/contest a precious cap in the early game.

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Destroyers typically want to save smoke to save themselves from surface fire. I consider 3 charges to bethe bare minimum to have for surface engagements throughout an entire match. The problem is that many destroyers only get 3 smokes with premium consumables and without SI. Spending the 3 points for SI is a bit of a hassle since that investment will usually come after the first 10 points, but it's not gamebreaking.

What boggles me more is the destroyers that are clearly under attack by aircraft but make no attempt to dodge. Maybe they're like those battleships that sail in a straight line alone and don't notice they're being torpedoed until they hit.

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16 minutes ago, HyenaHiena said:

Plp fear the cv more then anything on this game

    Not me, I fear horrible teammates.

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1 hour ago, Sinboto said:

Right so I've given this a little bit of thought and I'm pretty confused about this. I'm an on-off CV player and I see this pretty often, I'll give you an example:

T6 match launch planes, only two objectives spot DD he turns his AA on only after being spotted (good job DD) I expect him to smoke up as I'm turning to get him but he...doesn't. 

One run, two, three, now he's lost I'd say a third HP and he chooses NOW to use his smoke. 

 The same thing on my team sometimes in T8-10, the start of the match DD in the cap, see planes coming DD stays in the cap no smoke gets hit. 

I always wonder what that's about, I mean don't get me wrong it makes my job easier for sure but it's always a head scratch moment for me. 

Is there something I'm missing here, am I in the wrong?

They're trying to get to the cap before they smoke, so they can sit in it and cap the point  get torpedoed

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43 minutes ago, BrushWolf said:

The unicums are what most anti-CV rants are really about once you get done pulling teeth on the ranters.

Pretty much.

Certain players cry and whine like every CV driver is Gaishu, when the reality is so far from that it’s not even funny.

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1 hour ago, Sinboto said:

Is there something I'm missing here, am I in the wrong?

You do know that DDs have to stop to use smoke right? If they keep going the smoke appears behind them but if they stop they're now nicely set up for the enemy DD that they can't see to torp them.

As a DD driver I can dodge most incoming CV attacks.

As a CV driver I miss most of the time when attacking DDs.

And, at the end of the day, smoke is limited and I simply don't carry enough to smoke up every time the CV flies over. I try more to just not be seen by them and then dodge when they do see me.

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13 minutes ago, Estimated_Prophet said:

Pretty much.

Certain players cry and whine like every CV driver is Gaishu, when the reality is so far from that it’s not even funny.

To be fair, Gaishu causes PTSD...

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12 minutes ago, DracoTB said:

You do know that DDs have to stop to use smoke right? If they keep going the smoke appears behind them but if they stop they're now nicely set up for the enemy DD that they can't see to torp them.

As a DD driver I can dodge most incoming CV attacks.

As a CV driver I miss most of the time when attacking DDs.

And, at the end of the day, smoke is limited and I simply don't carry enough to smoke up every time the CV flies over. I try more to just not be seen by them and then dodge when they do see me.

Someone gets it. You may not be able to make them miss every time but you can limit the damage by making yourself a poor target to attack.

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1 hour ago, Sinboto said:

Right so I've given this a little bit of thought and I'm pretty confused about this. I'm an on-off CV player and I see this pretty often, I'll give you an example:

T6 match launch planes, only two objectives spot DD he turns his AA on only after being spotted (good job DD) I expect him to smoke up as I'm turning to get him but he...doesn't. 

One run, two, three, now he's lost I'd say a third HP and he chooses NOW to use his smoke. 

 The same thing on my team sometimes in T8-10, the start of the match DD in the cap, see planes coming DD stays in the cap no smoke gets hit. 

I always wonder what that's about, I mean don't get me wrong it makes my job easier for sure but it's always a head scratch moment for me. 

Is there something I'm missing here, am I in the wrong?

Let’s see smoke needed for....

1. BBs who yolo then have to back out.

2. Get radared then drop a line of smoke .....why?  I can return right up that line of smoke

3. Enemy DDs are mean....Smoke calms them down

4.  CVs do not show up as much and people who play them usually have mental health issues that may affect memory.  So they forget where I am after the first attack. 

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17 minutes ago, DracoTB said:

You do know that DDs have to stop to use smoke right? If they keep going the smoke appears behind them but if they stop they're now nicely set up for the enemy DD that they can't see to torp them.

As a DD driver I can dodge most incoming CV attacks.

As a CV driver I miss most of the time when attacking DDs.

And, at the end of the day, smoke is limited and I simply don't carry enough to smoke up every time the CV flies over. I try more to just not be seen by them and then dodge when they do see me.

a few points:

1: No, you do not have to stop fully to activate smoke, you can simply slow your ship down gradually or start the smoke generator while turned away.

2: If you can dodge most attacks from a CV good for you, most people can't do that reliably so you're a set above most. 

3: If you are missing the majority of your attacks on DDs with a CV it's not commonly an issue for most CV players, it's not overly difficult to land at least a handful of rockets (I'm assuming that's what you are talking about) on a DD even if they manoeuvre. 

4: I am not speaking about using smoke every time a CV flys over, if it wasn't clear my pardons. 

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