Jump to content
Sign in to follow this  
You need to play a total of 5 battles to post in this section.
JediMasterDraco

Is there a Flaw in US BBs?

16 comments in this topic

Recommended Posts

596
[NGA]
Members
1,878 posts
9,937 battles

It seems to me that whenever I go bow-in with most battleships, I'll be deflecting and minimizing damage with ease, but whenever I try this with the high-tier US BBs, specifically North Carolina, Iowa, Missouri, and Georgia, it seems that I eat full-damage penetrations no matter what angle I'm at. Does anyone else feel like they have this problem? As a point, I generally don't feel like this when I'm in the Monty cause that always feels like a tank, but for those I mentioned, it always feels like their armor is made from paper.

Edit: Another thing I should probably mention is that I've exploited this too. There have been a number of times where I've been in a Bismarck or Tirpitz and an NC or Iowa has been bow in towards me. I fire a volley and end up getting a citadel. I've never seen anything like this against other ships though.

Edited by JediMasterDraco

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
633
[KAPPA]
Members
2,093 posts
6,970 battles

It's got to do with the ship shooting you and where they shoot. High tier US BBs tend to have a round upper bow, which means it's a nearly flat surface and able to be gone through like nothing. Will you get hit for cits? Unlikely, as it's so high. But penetrations just require the shell arm.

There's also the super structure, which, with enough times through, can often arm a shell. Or, at least, that's what I assume. Hard to say, honestly, as, well... I can regularly arm a shell from Georgia into an angled or bow-on superstructure. My general thoughts come down to a steep enough multiplier from the angle while being unable to bounce the shells, meaning that a shot into the superstructure can do pretty reliable damage against BB if you can aim it just right. Does require accurate guns, however.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1,151
[N-W-T]
Members
1,918 posts
7,557 battles

The 32mm armor of those ships still allow AP pens, even if they can't overmatch (as only Musashi and Yamato can).  Angling only autobounces if they fire at your belt armor.  Firing at the nose of the bow, or where the belt meets the deck, will still likely result in getting several pens, and many will hit the superstructure. 

  • Boring 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Members
1,059 posts
6,020 battles
7 minutes ago, JediMasterDraco said:

It seems to me that whenever I go bow-in with most battleships, I'll be deflecting and minimizing damage with ease, but whenever I try this with the high-tier US BBs, specifically North Carolina, Iowa, Missouri, and Georgia, it seems that I eat full-damage penetrations no matter what angle I'm at. Does anyone else feel like they have this problem? As a point, I generally don't feel like this when I'm in the Monty cause that always feels like a tank, but for those I mentioned, it always feels like their armor is made from paper.

Yes and no... i think its the shells you face. Top tier in those boats? Feel like a god. Bottom tier? Those large calibers, high velocities, and super heavy shells will happily bloody your nose.

I feel your pain though... nothing like feeling youre doing everything right with the bow/angle only to get back handed into last week.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
596
[NGA]
Members
1,878 posts
9,937 battles
7 minutes ago, Shoggoth_pinup said:

It's got to do with the ship shooting you and where they shoot. High tier US BBs tend to have a round upper bow, which means it's a nearly flat surface and able to be gone through like nothing. Will you get hit for cits? Unlikely, as it's so high. But penetrations just require the shell arm.

There's also the super structure, which, with enough times through, can often arm a shell. Or, at least, that's what I assume. Hard to say, honestly, as, well... I can regularly arm a shell from Georgia into an angled or bow-on superstructure. My general thoughts come down to a steep enough multiplier from the angle while being unable to bounce the shells, meaning that a shot into the superstructure can do pretty reliable damage against BB if you can aim it just right. Does require accurate guns, however.

7 minutes ago, DouglasMacAwful said:

The 32mm armor of those ships still allow AP pens, even if they can't overmatch (as only Musashi and Yamato can).  Angling only autobounces if they fire at your belt armor.  Firing at the nose of the bow, or where the belt meets the deck, will still likely result in getting several pens, and many will hit the superstructure. 

So basically it's game mechanics shafting the USN again. *sigh* I guess I'll have to live with that. Just like I do with how the game mechanics negate the advantage the USN experienced in fire control systems. There's a reason I never mention this game where my father can hear.

  • Cool 1
  • Boring 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Members
7,307 posts
3,248 battles
11 minutes ago, Stand_Alone97 said:

The Monty has wonky armor model imho... Maybe WeeGee should look into it.

 

 

1

Damn... and I wanted one too

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
328
[PISD]
Members
558 posts
3,707 battles

Anything is possible. Yesterday I got a citadel on a GK with... a Minotaur.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
692
[-TDF-]
Beta Testers
1,142 posts
4,464 battles
1 minute ago, Y_Nagato said:

Anything is possible. Yesterday I got a citadel on a GK with... a Minotaur.

Replay/Screenshot or it didn't happen.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1,469
Clan Supertest Coordinator
4,624 posts
6,965 battles

Some USN BBs have a flawed model where part of the citadel actually clips out of the ship.  It's pretty small and not something you can reliably aim for and hit....but it is the reason you get random citadels at weird angles with things that should not be getting citadels.

Edited by yashma
  • Cool 1
  • Boring 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
608
Members
768 posts
18,340 battles
1 hour ago, JediMasterDraco said:

It seems to me that whenever I go bow-in with most battleships, I'll be deflecting and minimizing damage with ease, but whenever I try this with the high-tier US BBs, specifically North Carolina, Iowa, Missouri, and Georgia, it seems that I eat full-damage penetrations no matter what angle I'm at. Does anyone else feel like they have this problem? As a point, I generally don't feel like this when I'm in the Monty cause that always feels like a tank, but for those I mentioned, it always feels like their armor is made from paper.

Edit: Another thing I should probably mention is that I've exploited this too. There have been a number of times where I've been in a Bismarck or Tirpitz and an NC or Iowa has been bow in towards me. I fire a volley and end up getting a citadel. I've never seen anything like this against other ships though.

The distance matters.

Assuming you're 0 degrees bow-on, a Bismarck/Tirpitz have no hope of ever getting citadels from the front, or anything else that isn't a Musashi/Yamato for that matter.

However, if the distance is far enough that you are outside your ship's immunity zone, those shells will be coming at an angle sufficient to penetrate through the deck of your bow or midships, sometimes finding its way into the citadel through the athwartship (the front end of the citadel). The deck armour on the US BBs are on the low side, only 37-38mm, and their athwartship armour is not good enough to stop BB shells in the T8-10 spread.

The reason you don't notice this issue in the Montana is because its athwartship armour is really thick. Thicker than its belt armour (457mm vs 409mm) actually.

So you need to choose when and where you want to bow tank against BBs. If you're far enough that their shells start plunging through your deck, it will hurt.

At close range, you can actually eat full pens through your upper belt armour if your angling is not sufficient enough. Someone who knows what they're doing (or really don't know what they're doing) will fire at your upper belt to score AP pens when pens through the lower belt (citadel area) is not possible due to angling and armour thickness.

Oh, and another spot you can eat citadels is just ahead and below the A turret if your angling is not sufficient. The shells will penetrate the 32mm plating with ease and go straight into the athwartship, where it's not enough to stop even heavy cruiser shells at close range. Iowa and NC are especially susceptible to getting citadeled through there (Montana is not immune either) by US super heavy and Stalingrad's shells thanks to their improved bounce angles.

Edited by yacskn
  • Cool 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2,477
[RKLES]
Members
10,704 posts
12,355 battles
1 hour ago, JediMasterDraco said:

It seems to me that whenever I go bow-in with most battleships, I'll be deflecting and minimizing damage with ease, but whenever I try this with the high-tier US BBs, specifically North Carolina, Iowa, Missouri, and Georgia, it seems that I eat full-damage penetrations no matter what angle I'm at. Does anyone else feel like they have this problem? As a point, I generally don't feel like this when I'm in the Monty cause that always feels like a tank, but for those I mentioned, it always feels like their armor is made from paper.

Edit: Another thing I should probably mention is that I've exploited this too. There have been a number of times where I've been in a Bismarck or Tirpitz and an NC or Iowa has been bow in towards me. I fire a volley and end up getting a citadel. I've never seen anything like this against other ships though.

What ranges is this happening to you at? Because High tier you could be getting long range shells coming down through deck armor, or else you could be getting close eneough for their shell velocity to penetrate your armor. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
633
[KAPPA]
Members
2,093 posts
6,970 battles
51 minutes ago, JediMasterDraco said:

So basically it's game mechanics shafting the USN again. *sigh* I guess I'll have to live with that. Just like I do with how the game mechanics negate the advantage the USN experienced in fire control systems. There's a reason I never mention this game where my father can hear.

Or angle instead. Bow tanking is the lazy way of mitigating damage anyway, not to mention a good way to lose turrets against larger shells. It's only that much of a weakness if you let it be one, just like Yamato's citadel and other such exploitable weaknesses.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
551
[_SMS_]
Members
936 posts
4,235 battles
1 hour ago, Y_Nagato said:

Anything is possible. Yesterday I got a citadel on a GK with... a Minotaur.

LoL that's awesome - maybe you went down a gun barrel or shot the captain in the eye or something 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1,216
[WOLF5]
Members
2,900 posts
3,206 battles
1 hour ago, Y_Nagato said:

Anything is possible. Yesterday I got a citadel on a GK with... a Minotaur.

There was a thread a bit ago where a GK got detonated through the nose....by a harugumo 100mm AP shell. Yeah, weird things happen.

 

OP, USN BBs are not brawlers, they do tend to eat a bit more pen damage than some other lines, but less than some as well. Don't go brawling in USN BBs, for many reasons. But nose in you can still bounce everything but the Yamato and Musashi. You will eat pens to upper armor, random angles on things, and superstructure. But short of the 460s you should not take citadels except for really random things. I am a USN BB main, and don't have an issue with tanking. Bismark you're not, but you're still a hard nut to crack nose in.

  • Cool 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
328
[PISD]
Members
558 posts
3,707 battles
17 hours ago, T_O_dubl_D said:

LoL that's awesome - maybe you went down a gun barrel or shot the captain in the eye or something 

Maybe the 130 hit dug a hole in the armored roof of the citadel. Or maybe an unseen cruiser passed there and got a citadel from a stray shot, who know!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Sign in to follow this  

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.

×