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BallaTheFeared

The CV nerf was a indirect nerf of American ships.

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One of their main benefits was anti air capabilities but because wargaming has made CVs worthless you rarely see a CV and a double CV game is like a unicorn.

 

CVs being trash is basically a nerf of all American ship lines.

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2 minutes ago, BallaTheFeared said:

One of their main benefits was anti air capabilities but because wargaming has made CVs worthless you rarely see a CV and a double CV game is like a unicorn

I was beginning to think so but most of my T6 games the last couple of nights had CVs so they are not that rare.

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Imagine calling a class with the second highest average damage and more than double the next highest average spotting damage "worthless".

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7 minutes ago, tenfingerstentoes said:

Imagine calling a class with the second highest average damage and more than double the next highest average spotting damage "worthless".

How that damage occurs is of more importance than the total number.


CVs are inherently a damage over time class.

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33 minutes ago, BallaTheFeared said:

How that damage occurs is of more importance than the total number.

No, it's not. More is better when you are talking damage, and more with more sunken ships is best. I wouldn't care if it came from trained attack canaries!

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41 minutes ago, BallaTheFeared said:

How that damage occurs is of more importance than the total number.


CVs are inherently a damage over time class.

Completely wrong.

It's not how the damage gets done, it's to what.

100k damage to BB's is pretty worthless, 20k to DD's and you've accomplished something.

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The recent McDonalds nerf was an indirect nerf to my tendies.

Since we're just talking insanity now.

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Soon as I finish grinding in Savage mode, I will be rotating CV's into my normal gameplay. 

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10 minutes ago, paradat said:

Soon as I finish grinding in Savage mode, I will be rotating CV's into my normal gameplay. 

image.thumb.png.857877f0e699b6759cf5955d3df0e7cb.png

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Well it is, assuming you ignore their:

BB's increased Healing Capability, longer DCP immunity time, higher-than-average Calibre per tier, floaty shells that increase likelihood of deck penetrations (nothing worse than seeing a Monty at 20 km when in a GK)

DD's longest dispersing/lasting smoke, high RoF guns combined with near-the-top quality torps, lightening fast gun rotation that compliments their exceedingly dancy rudder/turning circle

CA/CL's with best-at-tier penetration, along with better penetration angles, tanky armour scheme and stealth that allows them to get in close, fight, and beg off at will, access to a long lasting radar + sonar combo that makes them highly dangerous DD hunters

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1 hour ago, tenfingerstentoes said:

Imagine calling a class with the second highest average damage and more than double the next highest average spotting damage "worthless".

Average CV damage barely surpasses cruisers, is buoyed up by the top players with average players struggling to get near that average, and for spotting damage CV's were always king of the hill. Spotting is not rewarded as it should so that big number is pretty meaningless.

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16 minutes ago, BrushWolf said:

Average CV damage barely surpasses cruisers, 

Yes, so it's higher than the highest DPM surface ship class, and it is the second highest damage class in the game.

 

16 minutes ago, BrushWolf said:

is buoyed up by the top players with average players struggling to get near that average

So, it's like every other class then, got it.

 

16 minutes ago, BrushWolf said:

Spotting is not rewarded as it should so that big number is pretty meaningless.

Meaningless except in that the ships it gets killed are now dead and the more kills your team gets the closer they are to winning.

Edited by tenfingerstentoes
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43 minutes ago, tenfingerstentoes said:

Yes, so it's higher than the highest DPM surface ship class, and it is the second highest damage class in the game.

CV's are beating cruisers by about 2.7% and are behind BB's by 14%. I get the feeling you wouldn't be happy if CV were 14% behind DD's.

45 minutes ago, tenfingerstentoes said:

So, it's like every other class then, got it.

No, I said that average players are struggling to approach that number when with other ships the average is about what an average player can expect.

47 minutes ago, tenfingerstentoes said:

Meaningless except in that the ships it gets killed are now dead and the more kills your team gets the closer they are to winning.

The only ships that CV's can consistently spot are BB's and they are probably spotted if they fired anyway. With cruisers the spotting cushion is too small to stay out of the AA is there is a cushion at all. With DD's the spotting range is far less than their AA range if they have it turned off.

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LETS MAKE MERICA AA SHIPS GREAT AGAIN!

image.png.9f2a233ce1ef6fdc159ad263fe350fdb.png

____________________

Also thats kinda irrelevant, the cvs normaly avoid AA merica ships anyway.

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3 minutes ago, BrushWolf said:

CV's are beating cruisers by about 2.7% and are behind BB's by 14%. I get the feeling you wouldn't be happy if CV were 14% behind DD's.

Sure, but, they aren't, they're doing the second most damage per game among ships.

 

3 minutes ago, BrushWolf said:

No, I said that average players are struggling to approach that number when with other ships the average is about what an average player can expect.

An average CV player by definition would be doing the average damage. Your statement makes no sense and I don't think anybody outside of WG has granular data that can provide a "performance vs overall player strength" comparison. That said, before 0.8.5 weaker players overall were doing much better in CVs than their other ships, so the change has made CVs come more in line with a class knowledge requirement to actually perform well.

5 minutes ago, BrushWolf said:

The only ships that CV's can consistently spot are BB's and they are probably spotted if they fired anyway. With cruisers the spotting cushion is too small to stay out of the AA is there is a cushion at all. With DD's the spotting range is far less than their AA range if they have it turned off.

CV's can consistently spot anything that isn't in a smokescreen, because they are 3-7 times faster than everything else on the map. Cruiser long range AA is terrible, you can pop in and out of it for quite some time without taking huge losses if you want to keep one spotted. 

 

Remember, I didn't say they were as good as they used to be, and for good reason. I just said that a ship class with the 2nd highest average damage and by far the highest average spotting damage isn't "worthless".

 

Also I still laugh at this hilarious notion that damage to BBs is "worthless". Forcing damage cons and heals is hardly worthless, it either makes the BB more susceptible to getting focused down by the rest of your team, or makes them so passive that they can't effectively push up to tank and provide accurate high-alpha support. Imagine starting every game with equal points but your team has all their BBs removed. It wouldn't be pretty. Effectively focusing them is extremely important.

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3 hours ago, tenfingerstentoes said:

Imagine calling a class with the second highest average damage and more than double the next highest average spotting damage "worthless".

CV no longer do that kind of damage with all the nerfs to CV and buffs to AA.

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3 hours ago, tenfingerstentoes said:

Imagine calling a class with the second highest average damage and more than double the next highest average spotting damage "worthless".

That was like two patches ago. Live in the now.

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Just now, Scrapyard_ said:

CV no longer do that kind of damage with all the nerfs to CV and buffs to AA.

Yes they do.

http://maplesyrup.sweet.coocan.jp/wows/ranking/20190713/na_week/average_class.html

 

Over the last week, average damage (high tiers):

BB: 65047

CV: 55823

CA: 54350

DD: 40235

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Just now, KnifeInUrNeck said:

That was like two patches ago. Live in the now.

This is now, two patches ago CVs did the most damage of all classes, while also doing the most spotting damage of all classes.

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2 minutes ago, Scrapyard_ said:

CV no longer do that kind of damage with all the nerfs to CV and buffs to AA.

Oh they do.... If they're determined/stubborn... First attacks do 3k-6k DMG per pass... Now, later on in the match, not so much.

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3 hours ago, BallaTheFeared said:

One of their main benefits was anti air capabilities but because wargaming has made CVs worthless you rarely see a CV and a double CV game is like a unicorn.

 

CVs being trash is basically a nerf of all American ship lines.

I hear that, also the AA of all other ships being great now, you don't need that dedicated role as all your AA mods are not efficient enough to run now also. 

Anything looking directly at planes with a dirty glare is enough to shoot them down. 

 

CV's are just a lovely mini game in amongst the surface ship fighting now. 

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6 minutes ago, tenfingerstentoes said:

Sure, but, they aren't, they're doing the second most damage per game among ships.

 

An average CV player by definition would be doing the average damage. Your statement makes no sense and I don't think anybody outside of WG has granular data that can provide a "performance vs overall player strength" comparison. That said, before 0.8.5 weaker players overall were doing much better in CVs than their other ships, so the change has made CVs come more in line with a class knowledge requirement to actually perform well.

CV's can consistently spot anything that isn't in a smokescreen, because they are 3-7 times faster than everything else on the map. Cruiser long range AA is terrible, you can pop in and out of it for quite some time without taking huge losses if you want to keep one spotted. 

 

Remember, I didn't say they were as good as they used to be, and for good reason. I just said that a ship class with the 2nd highest average damage and by far the highest average spotting damage isn't "worthless".

 

Also I still laugh at this hilarious notion that damage to BBs is "worthless". Forcing damage cons and heals is hardly worthless, it either makes the BB more susceptible to getting focused down by the rest of your team, or makes them so passive that they can't effectively push up to tank and provide accurate high-alpha support. Imagine starting every game with equal points but your team has all their BBs removed. It wouldn't be pretty. Effectively focusing them is extremely important.

The CV average damage is inflated because most of the less than unicum players dropped them as witnessed by their numbers crashing in 8.4 & 8.5. If most of the CV players are well above average the average will be well above what average players can accomplish. A CV cannot consistently spot any ship it has to spend most if not all of the time in AA. I dare you to go find a Minotaur that is not engaged and see how long your spotting mission lasts. It wouldn't have been very long in 8.4 and is even shorter in 8.5.

Where are you getting damage to BB's is worthless? All I said is they are they only ships that a CV can safely spot as spotting most other ships requires either being in the AA or extremely close with no cushion and that the spotting is not well rewarded for doing a boring job.

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