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OneSovietSoldier

How Do I Increase My Impact on Russian DDs

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Hello, quick preface this is random battles, I have nowhere near the experience to even set foot in Ranked/Sprint.

Soooo, it's been about a year, and though I am currently grinding out a new line, I also still love to return to my Russian Destroyers. There is only one problem with this, I suck at them.

I am on my Minsk right now with absolutely horrid stats, right now my winrate is about 44%. I barely get any frags, and my average damage is about 20-25k a game. I am basically a handicap for my entire team and yet I have no idea what to do to try and improve or at least learn from my mistakes because the situation is always different every single game. I will occasionally get a 50k damage game where I felt like I wasn't useless, but these are few and far between.

Just a couple situations where I have 0 idea how to adapt:

Me vs. IJN/American DDs, I know IJN DDs assuming I actually hit my bullets I can kill them quickly, but of course they have friends that can take care of me. I know that I should not be knife-fighting American destroyers, yet when it comes down to that situation where I am the only DD in an area or even the game and I feel useless because I cannot detect the American DD without getting into a range I should not be at, what do I do? I don't want to just raise a white flag and give up, but I am clueless how to make an impact in these situations fully knowing I will probably die trying to make something happen.

Second one, the "the entire enemy team is shooting me" where either I may just not have random enough movements, or maybe just should not have been shooting, but those situations where 2 mins into the game I lose almost all my HP trying to dodge a zillion cruisers and maybe the occasional BB and I am effectively out of commission for the entire match. Replays I often I see show people harassing as soon as an enemy cruiser/ship is spotted however, yet they seem to be doing something I am not because they don't attract the attention of the entire enemy team. I suppose it helps to have AFT which I do not have (just the gun module on the Minsk right now), but still I am attempting to harass them without taking damage in return and it just goes horribly for me.

Finally, my least favorite one that almost always results in my early death, where either all the other DDs are also Russian or gunboats from other nations (Akatzuki for example). Or, the DD I am following goes one foot into the cap popping smoke barely spotting anything and effectively it feels like I am forced to attempt to spot while dangerously going into close range of enemy cruisers and the enemy DDs. May I mention that I cannot hit DDs for the life of me, it just takes me so long to get some hits that are not just knife-fighting range.

I absolutely love playing this line and would love to at least have decent stats on my Minsk before I go on up to the Kiev so I don't feel like a handicap to my team every game, but I suppose I just have 0 idea how to have a good impact on these lines of ships, I did fine early tiers but I think that can contribute to the fact that I am not a 100% "new" player and I was basically seal clubbing. I for sure know that some of this is because I am not aware of every ship and what they are capable of minus ones I have played or just died enough to know not to tango with, but I wanted to ask some advice from anyone way better at this line than I am and hope that I could have some help with them.

Thank you for any help at all.

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1. Don't get too close to USN DDs and similar ones.  Stay at around 8-10 km from them in a gunfight, where their shells will get more floaty, while yours will be flatter and more accurate and easy to aim.  Also, at those longer ranges, your slow turret traverse will be less of a problem than it would be at shorter ranges where DDs with faster turning turrets would be much more able to dodge and still keep their guns on target, whereas Russian DDs with slow turning turrets would find that dodging made it very difficult to keep their guns on target.

2. Try to start fires on larger ships, but don't be afraid to use AP when you get good broadsides on BBs and cruisers.  Note that on BBs you'll still have to aim for the superstructures, but you'll do solid damage.  My overall strategy for fires with gunboat DDs has been to try to get one fire on a BB, then switch to another target, because many players will just put out 2 fires but will let one fire burn.  So, I switch to another target to try to start a fire on that ship.  But if I see the first BB clearly put out a fire, I'll start spamming the HE at him again to try to get another fire going during his long cooldown.  Also, I try to pay attention to enemy ships that have taken torp hits in my vicinity because many people will automatically repair floods.  So once again, I try to get a fire started during the long cooldown.  But with fires I know are running during cool downs, I will keep spamming the HE to get as many fires going as possible, since the BB can't stop them.  Also, getting fires burning on BBs is a good way to force enemy BBs to expend their heals more quickly.  However, it's worth noting that this isn't nearly as effective against those RN BBs that have the Super Heal, such as the Nelson, Lion, and Conqueror.  And while technically it might be useful to force them to  expend their Super heals, it takes so damned much effort to do enough damage to make it worth using them, it can seem like it's not worth the effort.  It seems to me that the best way to deal with SuperHeal BBs is very heavy focus fire to try to get them killed before they can make effective use of their super heal.

3.  When you get to the Kiev, you'll end up with more useful 8 km torpedoes, though they're probably an upgrade that you'll either have to grind for or spend FXP on.  But they're a huge upgrade over the 4 km ones.

 

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2 hours ago, OneSovietSoldier said:

Hello, quick preface this is random battles, I have nowhere near the experience to even set foot in Ranked/Sprint.

Soooo, it's been about a year, and though I am currently grinding out a new line, I also still love to return to my Russian Destroyers. There is only one problem with this, I suck at them.

I am on my Minsk right now with absolutely horrid stats, right now my winrate is about 44%. I barely get any frags, and my average damage is about 20-25k a game. I am basically a handicap for my entire team and yet I have no idea what to do to try and improve or at least learn from my mistakes because the situation is always different every single game. I will occasionally get a 50k damage game where I felt like I wasn't useless, but these are few and far between.

Just a couple situations where I have 0 idea how to adapt:

Me vs. IJN/American DDs, I know IJN DDs assuming I actually hit my bullets I can kill them quickly, but of course they have friends that can take care of me. I know that I should not be knife-fighting American destroyers, yet when it comes down to that situation where I am the only DD in an area or even the game and I feel useless because I cannot detect the American DD without getting into a range I should not be at, what do I do? I don't want to just raise a white flag and give up, but I am clueless how to make an impact in these situations fully knowing I will probably die trying to make something happen.

Second one, the "the entire enemy team is shooting me" where either I may just not have random enough movements, or maybe just should not have been shooting, but those situations where 2 mins into the game I lose almost all my HP trying to dodge a zillion cruisers and maybe the occasional BB and I am effectively out of commission for the entire match. Replays I often I see show people harassing as soon as an enemy cruiser/ship is spotted however, yet they seem to be doing something I am not because they don't attract the attention of the entire enemy team. I suppose it helps to have AFT which I do not have (just the gun module on the Minsk right now), but still I am attempting to harass them without taking damage in return and it just goes horribly for me.

Finally, my least favorite one that almost always results in my early death, where either all the other DDs are also Russian or gunboats from other nations (Akatzuki for example). Or, the DD I am following goes one foot into the cap popping smoke barely spotting anything and effectively it feels like I am forced to attempt to spot while dangerously going into close range of enemy cruisers and the enemy DDs. May I mention that I cannot hit DDs for the life of me, it just takes me so long to get some hits that are not just knife-fighting range.

I absolutely love playing this line and would love to at least have decent stats on my Minsk before I go on up to the Kiev so I don't feel like a handicap to my team every game, but I suppose I just have 0 idea how to have a good impact on these lines of ships, I did fine early tiers but I think that can contribute to the fact that I am not a 100% "new" player and I was basically seal clubbing. I for sure know that some of this is because I am not aware of every ship and what they are capable of minus ones I have played or just died enough to know not to tango with, but I wanted to ask some advice from anyone way better at this line than I am and hope that I could have some help with them.

Thank you for any help at all.

Russian dds are mini ca, not destroyers(until you get to oigevny). Use your guns, shoot from smoke, use that hockey player as your captain with survival expert, ar, bft, aft etc and use range as your friend cause your trajectories are so good. Never be first in a cap because you are outspotted by all, and make an effort to survive the entire match.

play ranked, it will make you a better player. When you die watch how people play and learn. Also play the new dd mode, it will ll make you better at knife fighting.

good luck

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2 hours ago, OneSovietSoldier said:

Hello, quick preface this is random battles, I have nowhere near the experience to even set foot in Ranked/Sprint.

Soooo, it's been about a year, and though I am currently grinding out a new line, I also still love to return to my Russian Destroyers. There is only one problem with this, I suck at them.

I am on my Minsk right now with absolutely horrid stats, right now my winrate is about 44%. I barely get any frags, and my average damage is about 20-25k a game. I am basically a handicap for my entire team and yet I have no idea what to do to try and improve or at least learn from my mistakes because the situation is always different every single game. I will occasionally get a 50k damage game where I felt like I wasn't useless, but these are few and far between.

Just a couple situations where I have 0 idea how to adapt:

Me vs. IJN/American DDs, I know IJN DDs assuming I actually hit my bullets I can kill them quickly, but of course they have friends that can take care of me. I know that I should not be knife-fighting American destroyers, yet when it comes down to that situation where I am the only DD in an area or even the game and I feel useless because I cannot detect the American DD without getting into a range I should not be at, what do I do? I don't want to just raise a white flag and give up, but I am clueless how to make an impact in these situations fully knowing I will probably die trying to make something happen.

Second one, the "the entire enemy team is shooting me" where either I may just not have random enough movements, or maybe just should not have been shooting, but those situations where 2 mins into the game I lose almost all my HP trying to dodge a zillion cruisers and maybe the occasional BB and I am effectively out of commission for the entire match. Replays I often I see show people harassing as soon as an enemy cruiser/ship is spotted however, yet they seem to be doing something I am not because they don't attract the attention of the entire enemy team. I suppose it helps to have AFT which I do not have (just the gun module on the Minsk right now), but still I am attempting to harass them without taking damage in return and it just goes horribly for me.

Finally, my least favorite one that almost always results in my early death, where either all the other DDs are also Russian or gunboats from other nations (Akatzuki for example). Or, the DD I am following goes one foot into the cap popping smoke barely spotting anything and effectively it feels like I am forced to attempt to spot while dangerously going into close range of enemy cruisers and the enemy DDs. May I mention that I cannot hit DDs for the life of me, it just takes me so long to get some hits that are not just knife-fighting range.

I absolutely love playing this line and would love to at least have decent stats on my Minsk before I go on up to the Kiev so I don't feel like a handicap to my team every game, but I suppose I just have 0 idea how to have a good impact on these lines of ships, I did fine early tiers but I think that can contribute to the fact that I am not a 100% "new" player and I was basically seal clubbing. I for sure know that some of this is because I am not aware of every ship and what they are capable of minus ones I have played or just died enough to know not to tango with, but I wanted to ask some advice from anyone way better at this line than I am and hope that I could have some help with them.

Thank you for any help at all.

If you want different playstyle and perspective from what everyone else here will tell you, send me a private message and we can talk further.

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I could write a wall of text detailing different strategies but fortunately I don't need to.

Spend some time watching this guy's destroyer vids - literally everything you need to know to improve your DD play. 

His youtube link:          Destroyer KuroshioKai

 

 

 

 

 

 

End Game

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5 hours ago, OneSovietSoldier said:

I am on my Minsk right now with absolutely horrid stats,

First of all, let me get something out of the way first. This current meta is not friendly toward the Russian Destroyers, particularly the lower tier russian dds and the line leading to the Khabarovsk. The carriers are a extreme threat toward the large and conspicuous Russian Destroyers, and at this point most players have learned how to lead against something as fast as Russian Destroyers, you are accepting quite a challenge by playing them.

5 hours ago, OneSovietSoldier said:

Me vs. IJN/American DDs, 

Don't have a crippling fear of being caught in a knife fight against an American gunboat, they have superior damage per minute, but not to a point they are imminently lethal and you are cripplingly helpless. You have a sizable but finite amount of hit points, getting caught means you have to act fast. Start kiting, but don't give up in shooting back: that's what the USN dds are good at, scaring you with a jump, make you panic and keep you from firing back, and kill you in a close chase before you can disengage. What you should do to counter is to start kiting while keeping all your guns firing, give an accurate lead, use free look to free yourself from the gun sights, and start maneuvering while creating distance. USN dds' dpm advantage is very fragile, limited by their bad gun velocity and short reach. Once you hit around 7 kilometers, you will start to have the upper hand. Your guns have great velocity and alpha damage at the cost of fast reloads, mission shots can be very punishing, so having good marksmanship is critical.

5 hours ago, OneSovietSoldier said:

Second one, the "the entire enemy team is shooting me"

Let me dispel a possible misunderstanding about Russian Destroyers: not all of them are khabarovsks that can harass in the light of the day with impunity, if you pick a fight against an enemy fleet without cover you will get shot at, and they will hit you effectively, especially if you didn't take skills like the AFT and kept yourself at a long range. Fortunately, unlike khabarovsk that can't hide and play sneaky at all, minsk can. Your concealment, providing you spec for it, is actually quite decent. Minsk is well capable of fighting as a first in-first out cap contester, and you shouldn't have to be forced with dealing damage without smokescreens or island cover.

On 7/15/2019 at 12:41 PM, OneSovietSoldier said:

Finally, my least favorite one that almost always results in my early death, where either all the other DDs are also Russian or gunboats from other nations (Akatzuki for example). Or, the DD I am following goes one foot into the cap popping smoke barely spotting anything and effectively it feels like I am forced to attempt to spot while dangerously going into close range of enemy cruisers and the enemy DDs. 

Panic, pop smoke, blinding your own team with no regards to their safety is a very common mistake, you need to stop relying on the friendly dds on doing the right thing. If you wish to succeed in random battles you need to expect your teammates in making these easy mistakes, even though they might not always make these mistakes. Again, Minsk is stealthy enough to act on her own and take her own initiatives, you don't have a fundamental reliance on another friendly destroyer.

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9 hours ago, The_first_harbinger said:

First of all, let me get something out of the way first. This current meta is not friendly toward the Russian Destroyers, particularly the lower tier russian dds and the line leading to the Khabarovsk. The carriers are a extreme threat toward the large and conspicuous Russian Destroyers, and at this point most players have learned how to lead against something as fast as Russian Destroyers, you are accepting quite a challenge by playing them.

Would you suggest going the alternate line then? I was looking forward to the Kiev once I got a decent captain.

9 hours ago, The_first_harbinger said:

Don't have a crippling fear of being caught in a knife fight against an American gunboat, they have superior damage per minute, but not to a point they are imminently lethal and you are cripplingly helpless. You have a sizable but finite amount of hit points, getting caught means you have to act fast. Start kiting, but don't give up in shooting back: that's what the USN dds are good at, scaring you with a jump, make you panic and keep you from firing back, and kill you in a close chase before you can disengage. What you should do to counter is to start kiting while keeping all your guns firing, give an accurate lead, use free look to free yourself from the gun sights, and start maneuvering while creating distance. USN dds' dpm advantage is very fragile, limited by their bad gun velocity and short reach. Once you hit around 7 kilometers, you will start to have the upper hand. Your guns have great velocity and alpha damage at the cost of fast reloads, mission shots can be very punishing, so having good marksmanship is critical.

Thank you for this advice, my marksmanship needs work though which hopefully will come with time. I've just heard aiming at destroyers is mostly feel.

 

9 hours ago, The_first_harbinger said:

Let me dispel a possible misunderstanding about Russian Destroyers: not all of them are khabarovsks that can harass in the light of the day with impunity, if you pick a fight against an enemy fleet without cover you will get shot at, and they will hit you effectively, especially if you didn't take skills like the AFT and kept yourself at a long range. Fortunately, unlike khabarovsk that can't hide and play sneaky at all, minsk can. Your concealment, providing you spec for it, is actually quite decent. Minsk is well capable of fighting as a first in-first out cap contester, and you shouldn't have to be forced with dealing damage without smokescreens or island cover.

Panic, pop smoke, blinding your own team with no regards to their safety is a very common mistake, you need to stop relying on the friendly dds on doing the right thing. If you wish to succeed in random battles you need to expect your teammates in making these easy mistakes, even though they might not always make these mistakes. Again, Minsk is stealthy enough to act on her own and take her own initiatives, you don't have a fundamental reliance on another friendly destroyer.

Fair, I should not rely on the totally correct play, I will have to go into the cap from now on and just learn to survive. It is worth noting that due to the skills I have on my captain (PT, EM, LS, and BFT), I was going to plan on going the full gunboat route (DE, AFT, SE, maybe PM after) since my Minsk captain is the highest one I have right now and I cannot afford to redistribute the points.

 

Also, thanks everyone for the advice, my game has actually improved a bit as I learn to incorporate this in my games. I have especially been working on when to use AP against cruisers and BBs and have been surprised with the damage output.

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7 hours ago, OneSovietSoldier said:

Fair, I should not rely on the totally correct play, I will have to go into the cap from now on and just learn to survive. It is worth noting that due to the skills I have on my captain (PT, EM, LS, and BFT), I was going to plan on going the full gunboat route (DE, AFT, SE, maybe PM after) since my Minsk captain is the highest one I have right now and I cannot afford to redistribute the points.

You can't just go diving into capture points either. Part of what I teach for my playstyle is how to pick which ones you want to go to and what to do when there. 

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RU DDs can get you extreme results, from being the top player in team, last to surveve and harass an entire flank doing 100000dmg to being erased in the first minutes of game without firing a shot.

Some things not mentioned in previous posts:

- Check teams before starting, being aware of how many enemy DDs are in game with better concealment and longer range torps than you (normally everybody else except Terrible)

- If there are more DDs in team act as a fast cruiser supporting them from a little behind.

- Try to explore flanks, most advantage is speed.

- Stay always in the move at top speed, even inside smoke.

Edited by Patosentado

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19 hours ago, OneSovietSoldier said:

Would you suggest going the alternate line then? I was looking forward to the Kiev once I got a decent captain.

Thank you for this advice, my marksmanship needs work though which hopefully will come with time. I've just heard aiming at destroyers is mostly feel.

Fair, I should not rely on the totally correct play, I will have to go into the cap from now on and just learn to survive. It is worth noting that due to the skills I have on my captain (PT, EM, LS, and BFT), I was going to plan on going the full gunboat route (DE, AFT, SE, maybe PM after) since my Minsk captain is the highest one I have right now and I cannot afford to redistribute the points.

Also, thanks everyone for the advice, my game has actually improved a bit as I learn to incorporate this in my games. I have especially been working on when to use AP against cruisers and BBs and have been surprised with the damage output.

1. To be entirely honest I am not very familiar with the alternate line leading to the grozovoi, all I know is that a decent DFAA and good concealment will serve you well in the current meta

2. Try to zoom out a notch in your binocular view if you feel like you are missing your shots, if you are trying to lead by your feels it would be difficult for you to lead a target so fast that it requires you to lead out of your screen

3. If you can't get a stealth build captain, try to get into a platoon where a friendly dd or radar cruiser can support you reliably.

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You get DE, and AFT (and BFT/AR)

YOU GOT TO MAX RANGE.

YOU LET OTHER SHIPS GET BETWEEN YOU AND ENEMY.

YOU MAKE SURE OTHER SHIPS BETWEEN YOU AND ENEMY ARE SPOTTED.

 

 

YOU FIRE GUNS. AND YOU DON'T STOP FIRING.

-------------

 

If you are udaloi/groz, you may want to stealth build + torp things....

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