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Destroyer_KuroshioKai

Examining Benham. Is she worth the grind.

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Right now there is great interest in Benham, the grind to get her etc.

I have not seen a break down in just how strong the ship is to her peers, nor the utility she provides to your account.  So I will do my best to take a crack at it.

First I will tackle how she stacks up against her T9 DD brethren.  Clearly Benham is going to be compared more along the lines of torp boats.  Her direct competitors are Yugumo, Chung Mu, Black Neustrashimy, and Z-46.  It doesnt look good.  Benham has basically the same guns armament as Sims at T7, yes you can slot reload to reduce the reload on the guns to 2.9 seconds, but its still only four guns, and in single mounts so you need to angle to expose your full DPM.  This means when you open up your rear gun turrets you become easier to hit, and worse you permit a player with good aim to rake shots down the length of your ship avoiding damage saturation in killing you.

Granted this is not just a Benham issue, all US DDs except Gearing have this issue.  The crux of the issue is the reward for the risk.  Fletcher, Black, and Chung Mu all have a 5th gun that they get when exposing themselves.  Frankly, despite having good firing arcs on the guns, I question if the DD Benham is going to be strong enough to bump its rivals out of the way for good torp launch positions.  My educated guess is she has enough DPM and HP to bully most T7 and T8 DDs out of the way, but against even Yugumo she is going to find it hard to create the space she needs to get her torps in the game effectively.  Maybe if she didnt have poor concealment levels compared to her gun armament.

Things take a major turn for the worse when looking at the gun boats.  Her concealment level provides no relief against Kitakaze (a ship that MUST have a concealment nerf), and even worse is out spotted, out DPMed, out everything except torpedoes by Jutland.  Even with her nerf Jutland is just going to eat Benham.

The other DDs, Black, Neustrashimy, and Z-46 all have special ways of countering DDs, and all of them are going to make life hard on Benham in their own ways.

That looks bleak.  I'm pretty good at finding ways to make things work, but the guns on Benham just arent going to let her have many stand up fights against her peers let alone T10 DDs that she will often see.  My best guess is running SI, playing close to your team for support against the peer DDs, and get good at blind shooting smoke against DDs to try to get a better trade on them when you do disengage.  I just dont see buffing the guns as worth it, its too limited, just not enough upside.

That takes me out of the bad news, and into the torps.  The torps are amazing.  Great firing arcs, I'm sure you have seen videos of the double drops which can be quite cheeky.  Unfortunately I feel she is going to need that double drop.  What I mean by that is if you cannot consistently get broadside angles on the enemy you are going to need to stack those torps and maybe get a hit or two out of both sets at bow in targets.  If you play smart you might be able to leverage pressure from a radar ally, or just with good map awareness to exploit an opening, once you get to the place you want to be you are going to make the enemy pay heavily.

To sum her up, shes going to be quite complicated to play.  Her impact beyond harassing ships with the 1-2 hit drops on their bows seems fairly restricted.  It would be much better if we had the old flood mechanics for her, but we do not.  Because of these issues I do not see her as a DD that will have any competitive utility.

My position, I will not go out of my way to get her.  If she is available for coal/FXP, etc at a later date I might simply because I love torp boats, but for me she provides little benefit to my account.

Speaking of benefit, she is a premium US DD.  While captain training is a thing of the past, a T9 DD should be a good resource for credits and XP.  My concerns here are her consistency.  She is going to run quite heavily with floods and famines.  Some nights everything is 200k games, other days 30k, and its all going to come down to enemy teams playing aggressive enough you can get torps in the game, and your ability to get good position.  IMO Neustrashimy is the clear economic winner out of the T9 premium DDs primarily due to how consistent her gun and torp performance is, followed by Black, though Black has a special camo that prints ridiculous amounts of XP that boosts her earning potential.  Black is a little erratic with torp damage, and gun damage can rely on fire RNG. 

In summary I believe Neustrashimy or Black are better values of your time for most accounts, but Benham not being behind steel might be more accessible, and that should be taken into consideration.  I am interested in knowing others opinion.

 

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I think it's a ship that will be disproportionately good against bad players and disproportionately bad against good players, and I don't really like that.

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I find her to be an overpowered torp bote, and that she can at least hold her own as a gunbote. I say that with the caveat that her ability as a gunbote is directly related to her ability as a torp bote. Most gunbotes won't want to get anywhere near her, because of those torps. This will reduce the amount of hits she takes from the guns of other DD's, which will allow her more freedom with her guns. Personally, I find her, as a whole, to be overpowered. Let me stress that "I" find her that way. This doesn't mean she is, just that I can make her work like that. In the hands of the good/really good DD drivers, she's going to be a nightmare times 40 to deal with, and even average DD torp-boters are going to find her very easy to use and score well with. Those torps reload in, IIRC, 65 seconds, as well, she spits torps like no-one else. I enjoy the heck out of mine.

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Main problem is her reliance on torpedoes. It‘s nice when you have BBs sailing straight and within range. It‘s bad when people are running and maneuvering.

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It looks to be a fun boat to drive regardless of how she stacks up against her brethren so I'm looking forward to adding her to the flotilla. If nothing else works she's worth it just for those amazing torp arcs.

So I shall be grinding out every bit of petrol that I can for the next couple of weeks (and with a little bit of luck I will get her for free).

 

 

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34 minutes ago, SireneRacker said:

Main problem is her reliance on torpedoes. It‘s nice when you have BBs sailing straight and within range. It‘s bad when people are running and maneuvering.

Perfect DD for coop. Bot run to you, you come out of smoke torps right, Torp left, two kills:Smile_trollface:

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5 hours ago, Destroyer_KuroshioKai said:

image.thumb.png.f8492396f35149979c5a130ce1e841d9.png

Right now there is great interest in Benham, the grind to get her etc.

I have not seen a break down in just how strong the ship is to her peers, nor the utility she provides to your account.  So I will do my best to take a crack at it.

First I will tackle how she stacks up against her T9 DD brethren.  Clearly Benham is going to be compared more along the lines of torp boats.  Her direct competitors are Yugumo, Chung Mu, Black Neustrashimy, and Z-46.  It doesnt look good.  Benham has basically the same guns armament as Sims at T7, yes you can slot reload to reduce the reload on the guns to 2.9 seconds, but its still only four guns, and in single mounts so you need to angle to expose your full DPM.  This means when you open up your rear gun turrets you become easier to hit, and worse you permit a player with good aim to rake shots down the length of your ship avoiding damage saturation in killing you.

Granted this is not just a Benham issue, all US DDs except Gearing have this issue.  The crux of the issue is the reward for the risk.  Fletcher, Black, and Chung Mu all have a 5th gun that they get when exposing themselves.  Frankly, despite having good firing arcs on the guns, I question if the DD Benham is going to be strong enough to bump its rivals out of the way for good torp launch positions.  My educated guess is she has enough DPM and HP to bully most T7 and T8 DDs out of the way, but against even Yugumo she is going to find it hard to create the space she needs to get her torps in the game effectively.  Maybe if she didnt have poor concealment levels compared to her gun armament.

Things take a major turn for the worse when looking at the gun boats.  Her concealment level provides no relief against Kitakaze (a ship that MUST have a concealment nerf), and even worse is out spotted, out DPMed, out everything except torpedoes by Jutland.  Even with her nerf Jutland is just going to eat Benham.

The other DDs, Black, Neustrashimy, and Z-46 all have special ways of countering DDs, and all of them are going to make life hard on Benham in their own ways.

That looks bleak.  I'm pretty good at finding ways to make things work, but the guns on Benham just arent going to let her have many stand up fights against her peers let alone T10 DDs that she will often see.  My best guess is running SI, playing close to your team for support against the peer DDs, and get good at blind shooting smoke against DDs to try to get a better trade on them when you do disengage.  I just dont see buffing the guns as worth it, its too limited, just not enough upside.

That takes me out of the bad news, and into the torps.  The torps are amazing.  Great firing arcs, I'm sure you have seen videos of the double drops which can be quite cheeky.  Unfortunately I feel she is going to need that double drop.  What I mean by that is if you cannot consistently get broadside angles on the enemy you are going to need to stack those torps and maybe get a hit or two out of both sets at bow in targets.  If you play smart you might be able to leverage pressure from a radar ally, or just with good map awareness to exploit an opening, once you get to the place you want to be you are going to make the enemy pay heavily.

To sum her up, shes going to be quite complicated to play.  Her impact beyond harassing ships with the 1-2 hit drops on their bows seems fairly restricted.  It would be much better if we had the old flood mechanics for her, but we do not.  Because of these issues I do not see her as a DD that will have any competitive utility.

My position, I will not go out of my way to get her.  If she is available for coal/FXP, etc at a later date I might simply because I love torp boats, but for me she provides little benefit to my account.

Speaking of benefit, she is a premium US DD.  While captain training is a thing of the past, a T9 DD should be a good resource for credits and XP.  My concerns here are her consistency.  She is going to run quite heavily with floods and famines.  Some nights everything is 200k games, other days 30k, and its all going to come down to enemy teams playing aggressive enough you can get torps in the game, and your ability to get good position.  IMO Neustrashimy is the clear economic winner out of the T9 premium DDs primarily due to how consistent her gun and torp performance is, followed by Black, though Black has a special camo that prints ridiculous amounts of XP that boosts her earning potential.  Black is a little erratic with torp damage, and gun damage can rely on fire RNG. 

In summary I believe Neustrashimy or Black are better values of your time for most accounts, but Benham not being behind steel might be more accessible, and that should be taken into consideration.  I am interested in knowing others opinion.

I think that you kind of missed the point of Benham: she is ALL about torps, guns are there just to decorate the ship.

It's basically a pre-nerf IJN torp boat under US flag cof cof Sommers cof cof and should be played as that. Avoid DD vs DD fights and focus on ruining the life of large or slow ships. Never ever get in caps at first, instead go around it, farm some spotting and when the cap already on enemy hands, wait a few seconds and push it (as the enemy DD probably already left) troping all you see and even thing you don't see in the way back to it (with under 1 minute torp reload you can do it without any trouble). As with all DDs, be careful with radar ships and try to sneak on BBs using your concealment for ez damage or dev strikes. 

I can't say this enough: forget about guns, it's 200% torpedo boat. If you ever played IJN DDs before the 127mm buff you know what I mean, use them only and only when it's completely necesary or to finish off a very low health target, use the mouse only to aim and fire the torps. This ship is basically a Kagero class with unlimited and 0 seconds recharge torpedo reload booster: You use one side, turn and you have another 8 torps ready to use.

Does anyone remeber why IJN torp DDs where nerfed so badly a long time ago and why got Kitakami? Torpedo soups. What WG is doing now with Benham and Sommers is bring back the pre-nerf IJN DDs (aka 0 guns and AA but glorious torps) under US flag and calling it a day. Kitakami at least was a T4 hull with 3 useless guns placed at Tier 8 while barely being able to stealth torp and having insanely long torp reloads with a citadel that even would make Minotaur look tanky. Sure it had 40 torps but it was extremely situational and most games it was borderline useless while as Benham and Sommers are better in almost single way than the "best torpedo DDs" also know as the japanese. Benham had insane reload on her torps, it's even better than Z-52 with legendary module and everything invested into torp reload while having twice as many torps more damage per hit, same range and only 2 less knots. Yeah very fair. Sure Z-52 have guns but does anyone really know Benham to also have gun power? Give it Grozo AA, Khaba guns and Neu heal so it's almost unsinkable.

If the japanese IJN DDs where still a danger (they are dangerous but not nearly as good as they use to be and they are getting powercreep reall badly lately) then sure it's fine to add a extremely good torpedo boat for other nations but this "best at x thing" is completely falling appart for other ships too: German BBs having "best secondaries" cof cof Mass, Georgia and WIP Ohio, "most tanky BBs" cof cof Kremlin cof cof or Yamato being "the most accuracted BB" cof cof Georgia and Slava.

Again: This ship and Sommers would be 100% fine if they were on pair with Yugumo and Shima but they are just better in almost every single way (only lose in sheer torp damage but what's the point with detection so high that almost everyone can dodge the torps even in bad scenarios for them). I bet if they ever make Moines obsolete with a IJN or Rusky cruiser it would create a massive uproar but because the ships being powercreeped are japanese everyone is like "gid gud m8"

3 hours ago, Mikebello said:

Main problem is her reliance on torpedoes. It‘s nice when you have BBs sailing straight and within range. It‘s bad when people are running and maneuvering.

As for this line in particular... Try out Yukikaze or any F3 torpedo ship and you will know the pain. 10.5 torp range is not good (Z-52 suffers a lot for it) but is more than enough if you play using the brain and are careful with radars.

 

Sorry if this ended up being too ranty, it was get my really triggered when some ships get all the love while others just bite the dust over and over agains no matter what the nation might be (Kramsly Cream or however it's called, Omaha or Emerald for example).

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tl;dr If you have to ask, no. 

Longer answer - if you have that much "everything" to do the grind, by all means do it if YOU feel it's worth it. 

Better question perhaps - just how will your LIFE be affected if you do not "own" the ship? Does it matter what others think/say/feel? 

GL no matter how you play it. 

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Benham is going to struggle against T9/10 dd's in a gun fight. She should equal Benson. She'll have problems with gunbotes in her match making range. Use guns to pick off low HP reds or join with other ships. Doing it within smoke is good, provided you know torps will be there in 30 seconds.

Visibility is 6.0 km if you add everything possible. Definitely a handicap if you're going for a first time cap.

Okay, on to the good part. Fletcher torps. 10.5 km/65 knots/ 1.7 km detect value(?). Stock reload time of 85 seconds. I think you cut it down to about 60-65 secs with TAE and module. Good firing arcs from what I've seen of CC videos. 16 torps max that can be launched.So, assuming 10 minutes of battle time, a maximum of 160  fish launched.

So how effective she is will depend on what map you're in and where you spawned. I can see her being able to torp choke points, stall a push and help control a cap by virtue of torp spamming the entry point. Also torp island huddlers. Definitely going to need RDF so a 19 point CO will be needed.

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10 hours ago, Th3KrimzonD3mon said:

I find her to be an overpowered torp bote, and that she can at least hold her own as a gunbote. I say that with the caveat that her ability as a gunbote is directly related to her ability as a torp bote. Most gunbotes won't want to get anywhere near her, because of those torps. This will reduce the amount of hits she takes from the guns of other DD's, which will allow her more freedom with her guns. Personally, I find her, as a whole, to be overpowered. Let me stress that "I" find her that way. This doesn't mean she is, just that I can make her work like that. In the hands of the good/really good DD drivers, she's going to be a nightmare times 40 to deal with, and even average DD torp-boters are going to find her very easy to use and score well with. Those torps reload in, IIRC, 65 seconds, as well, she spits torps like no-one else. I enjoy the heck out of mine.

I examined her from a competitive aspect, to me that means ranked battles top 5 to 2 bracket.  At that play level most DDs realize they dont need to actively hunt her, just take a position denying good torp opportunities and she will likely have little impact on the game.  This defensive play suits gun boats, they can run and gun or use areas you cant be torped to inflict more damage than the Benham you are zoning out.  

The torps are fantastic, but I think like Haida, she gives up too much other things for her couple strong points.  

 

6 hours ago, XurMP said:

I think that you kind of missed the point of Benham: she is ALL about torps, guns are there just to decorate the ship.

It's basically a pre-nerf IJN torp boat under US flag cof cof Sommers cof cof and should be played as that. Avoid DD vs DD fights and focus on ruining the life of large or slow ships. Never ever get in caps at first, instead go around it, farm some spotting and when the cap already on enemy hands, wait a few seconds and push it (as the enemy DD probably already left) troping all you see and even thing you don't see in the way back to it (with under 1 minute torp reload you can do it without any trouble). As with all DDs, be careful with radar ships and try to sneak on BBs using your concealment for ez damage or dev strikes. 

I can't say this enough: forget about guns, it's 200% torpedo boat. If you ever played IJN DDs before the 127mm buff you know what I mean, use them only and only when it's completely necesary or to finish off a very low health target, use the mouse only to aim and fire the torps. This ship is basically a Kagero class with unlimited and 0 seconds recharge torpedo reload booster: You use one side, turn and you have another 8 torps ready to use.

Does anyone remeber why IJN torp DDs where nerfed so badly a long time ago and why got Kitakami? Torpedo soups. What WG is doing now with Benham and Sommers is bring back the pre-nerf IJN DDs (aka 0 guns and AA but glorious torps) under US flag and calling it a day. Kitakami at least was a T4 hull with 3 useless guns placed at Tier 8 while barely being able to stealth torp and having insanely long torp reloads with a citadel that even would make Minotaur look tanky. Sure it had 40 torps but it was extremely situational and most games it was borderline useless while as Benham and Sommers are better in almost single way than the "best torpedo DDs" also know as the japanese. Benham had insane reload on her torps, it's even better than Z-52 with legendary module and everything invested into torp reload while having twice as many torps more damage per hit, same range and only 2 less knots. Yeah very fair. Sure Z-52 have guns but does anyone really know Benham to also have gun power? Give it Grozo AA, Khaba guns and Neu heal so it's almost unsinkable.

If the japanese IJN DDs where still a danger (they are dangerous but not nearly as good as they use to be and they are getting powercreep reall badly lately) then sure it's fine to add a extremely good torpedo boat for other nations but this "best at x thing" is completely falling appart for other ships too: German BBs having "best secondaries" cof cof Mass, Georgia and WIP Ohio, "most tanky BBs" cof cof Kremlin cof cof or Yamato being "the most accuracted BB" cof cof Georgia and Slava.

Again: This ship and Sommers would be 100% fine if they were on pair with Yugumo and Shima but they are just better in almost every single way (only lose in sheer torp damage but what's the point with detection so high that almost everyone can dodge the torps even in bad scenarios for them). I bet if they ever make Moines obsolete with a IJN or Rusky cruiser it would create a massive uproar but because the ships being powercreeped are japanese everyone is like "gid gud m8"

As for this line in particular... Try out Yukikaze or any F3 torpedo ship and you will know the pain. 10.5 torp range is not good (Z-52 suffers a lot for it) but is more than enough if you play using the brain and are careful with radars.

 

Sorry if this ended up being too ranty, it was get my really triggered when some ships get all the love while others just bite the dust over and over agains no matter what the nation might be (Kramsly Cream or however it's called, Omaha or Emerald for example).

The issue is a torp boat needs something to get to good launch positions to be consistent in performance.  Most of the IJN torp boats do this through excellent concealment, over time zoning enemy DDs out of their path to get to the positions you want to be in.  The Germans use smoke/hydro to shove DDs from their path.  The PA DDs have radar accomplishing forcing enemy DDs to cede ground.  Neustra has the detection to zone out most DDs, and the total HP pool to derp detect enemy DDs and accept the trade.

Benham has none of that.  So on top of having poor games where the enemy team is kiting you all game you have to deal with games where smart or lucky players block you from where you need to be to inflict massive damage through DD positioning or radar.  

IJN torps are fine as they are.  They were nerfed not because of the soup, but specifically because they were hitting too many DDs and CA, ships that being hit by a single torp from a same tier IJN torp boat killed or crippled for the game.  The people I see complain most frequently about IJN torps are almost always launching from poor positions because they are not using the strengths of the boat to get to good torp launch positions.  Since you specifically call out IJN DDs I'll address how they do not have the issues Benhan does.

First everyone of them except Akatsuki has the concealment to play slow and passive, reversing to their desired position.  When enemy DDs pop up, they keep them spotted letting their team shoot at them, having the effect of forcing these DDs out of position.  Gun wise the IJN torp boats have very high alpha HE and most are able to cleave 20 to 30% of the HP off a same tier DD in a single well aimed volley, they just dont have the DPM for a sustained fight.  So a quick 2-3 volleys and smoke up or duck behind an island to disengage style engagement leaves the red DD much worse off.  Over time they hit and run tactics bleed the enemy DD dry and they will be killed or forced to flee from the area completely.  Both of these are tactics you can rely on consistently.  Again Benham lacks the concealment, and her guns do not have high alpha, instead are guns that typically intend to do their damage up close over a period of time, she just doesnt have enough to compete at the tier.

I do have Yukikaze and regularly run F3 torps on Yugumo and Shima.  Yugumo I prefer a short range gun build with F3 torps and TRB.  I average more damage with F3 torps than any of the other options due to the faster reload, and the consistency.  F3s are among my favorite torps in the game.

 

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Always appreciate your thoughts on DD's

 

Thanks

 


 

I'm running Behnham like I run my Asashio which means I

  • Stay concealed
  • Avoid radar
  • Keep them spotted
  • Torp them & make them dance
  • use smoke & boost to run
  • apply pressure through presence


Observations in comparison after just a few matches

  1. Guns are not as sneakily powerful as Shio 
  2. Have to seriously consider whether to go in on a dying cruiser wheras the Shio can do serious damage quick to any cruiser with less then 20K
  3. Torps slightly slower then the 16K Shio I run allows a bit more enemy maneuvering
  4. Have to think 3 steps ahead of the opponent as against just 2
  5. The Shio torp stack after torpedo boost is more compact - being able to just keep going straight allows better angles 
  6. The port/starboard turn Benham torpedo stack requires more discipline to use different angles
  7. Like the Shio, if you time it right, the second wave floods 
  8. Getting more second waves with 8 torps feels like cheating
  9. Have to be more aware of radar
  10.  Glass for a stern
  11. DD's who dance in smoke once sometimes forget they have to dance twice
  12. Not as much a cap control  option as a participation in cap control option

 

 

 

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Hey

It's like a lot of things WOWS related; interested but not going to put in the extra effort to get it.  It's much like steal ships; not earning enough steal to make it worth worrying about.   I have better things to do with my time now that summer is here and I find myself playing a lot less; and the less I play, the less I miss it.

 

Pete

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For those that have her - does she come with a 'normal' tier IX premium camo, or only the Waterworld one?

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9 minutes ago, Rorik64 said:

For those that have her - does she come with a 'normal' tier IX premium camo, or only the Waterworld one?

Both....I find the Waterworld one difficult to look at.

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On 7/6/2019 at 5:12 PM, Anonymous50 said:

Always appreciate your thoughts on DD's

 

Thanks

 


 

I'm running Behnham like I run my Asashio which means I

  • Stay concealed
  • Avoid radar
  • Keep them spotted
  • Torp them & make them dance
  • use smoke & boost to run
  • apply pressure through presence


Observations in comparison after just a few matches

  1. Guns are not as sneakily powerful as Shio 
  2. Have to seriously consider whether to go in on a dying cruiser wheras the Shio can do serious damage quick to any cruiser with less then 20K
  3. Torps slightly slower then the 16K Shio I run allows a bit more enemy maneuvering
  4. Have to think 3 steps ahead of the opponent as against just 2
  5. The Shio torp stack after torpedo boost is more compact - being able to just keep going straight allows better angles 
  6. The port/starboard turn Benham torpedo stack requires more discipline to use different angles
  7. Like the Shio, if you time it right, the second wave floods 
  8. Getting more second waves with 8 torps feels like cheating
  9. Have to be more aware of radar
  10.  Glass for a stern
  11. DD's who dance in smoke once sometimes forget they have to dance twice
  12. Not as much a cap control  option as a participation in cap control option

 

 

 

Great advice and solid observations @Anonymous50. :cap_cool:

I am looking to play her as Torp boat, but to see what the USN aspects add or subtract to the gameplay style. 

Those of you who pick them up PLEASE share your experiences playing them. thanks

Thank you again for another great Destroyer thread @Destroyer_KuroshioKai:cap_horn:

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59 minutes ago, Anonymous50 said:

Both....I find the Waterworld one difficult to look at.

Thanks - I feel the same way.

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On 7/3/2019 at 3:24 AM, Not_Taking_my_Cents said:

I find her to be an overpowered torp bote, and that she can at least hold her own as a gunbote. I say that with the caveat that her ability as a gunbote is directly related to her ability as a torp bote. Most gunbotes won't want to get anywhere near her, because of those torps. This will reduce the amount of hits she takes from the guns of other DD's, which will allow her more freedom with her guns. Personally, I find her, as a whole, to be overpowered. Let me stress that "I" find her that way. This doesn't mean she is, just that I can make her work like that. In the hands of the good/really good DD drivers, she's going to be a nightmare times 40 to deal with, and even average DD torp-boters are going to find her very easy to use and score well with. Those torps reload in, IIRC, 65 seconds, as well, she spits torps like no-one else. I enjoy the heck out of mine.

+1 I would've ground for her but I really detest the savage battles, so I whaled thru it.

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On 7/3/2019 at 12:39 AM, pikohan said:

I think it's a ship that will be disproportionately good against bad players and disproportionately bad against good players, and I don't really like that.

Well said.

Is it a good bote?

Who knows, likely circumstantial like Pikohan just said.

Is it worth the grind?

Also circumstantial.

To me? Nope.

Edited by Estimated_Prophet

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23 minutes ago, zippychippy said:

+1 I would've ground for her but I really detest the savage battles, so I whaled thru it.

I dislike Savage Battles too, but I'm playing them nevertheless because I don't want to spend a ridiculous amount of money to buy the Benham.  If I can't get her for free, I might pay some money to finish off the Fuel Tokens grind, but not this early.

And for what it's worth, I find that playing Savage Battles makes it more difficult to play normal DDs right away, because everything in SB's is about twice as fast.  So, I tend to play some battles in slower ships after having played SBs, just to get myself re-attuned to the slower pace of regular WoWS battles.

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A tier 9 Sims.. that doesn't sound bad.

The grind is only worth it if you deem it so. If you consider how much a tier 9 premium goes for either with fxp 1 million or in premium shop for $100+ dollars. They delima with with the ship is similar to the Sims in contrast. Granted its got only 1k more hit points and plays against ships with 18-20k  it just means you need to play it with like you would with any ship. Keeping in mind what you can or can not do but the potential for this type of ship in the right hands can be devastating. 

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I picked her up last night and my early impressions are that she’s...ok. It’s strange playing a USN DD that’s outgunned by just about every other DD that it faces (that 5.9 km detection range is all of my tears). This may just be a symptom of my lack of experience with this type of DD, but it feels like she’s pretty easy to shut down. That said, like most torpedo boats she can really shine in the late game, and absolutely brutalizes ships that underestimate the danger of pushing in against her. 

Edited by SkaerKrow

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On 7/3/2019 at 1:27 AM, Destroyer_KuroshioKai said:

image.thumb.png.f8492396f35149979c5a130ce1e841d9.png

Right now there is great interest in Benham, the grind to get her etc.

I have not seen a break down in just how strong the ship is to her peers, nor the utility she provides to your account.  So I will do my best to take a crack at it.

First I will tackle how she stacks up against her T9 DD brethren.  Clearly Benham is going to be compared more along the lines of torp boats.  Her direct competitors are Yugumo, Chung Mu, Black Neustrashimy, and Z-46.  It doesnt look good.  Benham has basically the same guns armament as Sims at T7, yes you can slot reload to reduce the reload on the guns to 2.9 seconds, but its still only four guns, and in single mounts so you need to angle to expose your full DPM.  This means when you open up your rear gun turrets you become easier to hit, and worse you permit a player with good aim to rake shots down the length of your ship avoiding damage saturation in killing you.

Granted this is not just a Benham issue, all US DDs except Gearing have this issue.  The crux of the issue is the reward for the risk.  Fletcher, Black, and Chung Mu all have a 5th gun that they get when exposing themselves.  Frankly, despite having good firing arcs on the guns, I question if the DD Benham is going to be strong enough to bump its rivals out of the way for good torp launch positions.  My educated guess is she has enough DPM and HP to bully most T7 and T8 DDs out of the way, but against even Yugumo she is going to find it hard to create the space she needs to get her torps in the game effectively.  Maybe if she didnt have poor concealment levels compared to her gun armament.

Things take a major turn for the worse when looking at the gun boats.  Her concealment level provides no relief against Kitakaze (a ship that MUST have a concealment nerf), and even worse is out spotted, out DPMed, out everything except torpedoes by Jutland.  Even with her nerf Jutland is just going to eat Benham.

The other DDs, Black, Neustrashimy, and Z-46 all have special ways of countering DDs, and all of them are going to make life hard on Benham in their own ways.

That looks bleak.  I'm pretty good at finding ways to make things work, but the guns on Benham just arent going to let her have many stand up fights against her peers let alone T10 DDs that she will often see.  My best guess is running SI, playing close to your team for support against the peer DDs, and get good at blind shooting smoke against DDs to try to get a better trade on them when you do disengage.  I just dont see buffing the guns as worth it, its too limited, just not enough upside.

That takes me out of the bad news, and into the torps.  The torps are amazing.  Great firing arcs, I'm sure you have seen videos of the double drops which can be quite cheeky.  Unfortunately I feel she is going to need that double drop.  What I mean by that is if you cannot consistently get broadside angles on the enemy you are going to need to stack those torps and maybe get a hit or two out of both sets at bow in targets.  If you play smart you might be able to leverage pressure from a radar ally, or just with good map awareness to exploit an opening, once you get to the place you want to be you are going to make the enemy pay heavily.

To sum her up, shes going to be quite complicated to play.  Her impact beyond harassing ships with the 1-2 hit drops on their bows seems fairly restricted.  It would be much better if we had the old flood mechanics for her, but we do not.  Because of these issues I do not see her as a DD that will have any competitive utility.

My position, I will not go out of my way to get her.  If she is available for coal/FXP, etc at a later date I might simply because I love torp boats, but for me she provides little benefit to my account.

Speaking of benefit, she is a premium US DD.  While captain training is a thing of the past, a T9 DD should be a good resource for credits and XP.  My concerns here are her consistency.  She is going to run quite heavily with floods and famines.  Some nights everything is 200k games, other days 30k, and its all going to come down to enemy teams playing aggressive enough you can get torps in the game, and your ability to get good position.  IMO Neustrashimy is the clear economic winner out of the T9 premium DDs primarily due to how consistent her gun and torp performance is, followed by Black, though Black has a special camo that prints ridiculous amounts of XP that boosts her earning potential.  Black is a little erratic with torp damage, and gun damage can rely on fire RNG. 

In summary I believe Neustrashimy or Black are better values of your time for most accounts, but Benham not being behind steel might be more accessible, and that should be taken into consideration.  I am interested in knowing others opinion.

 

I have it.

I have issues with consistancy. Some games are monsters some games are 50k average.

Lmk if you want to use my account to try it out.

 

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42 minutes ago, Report_CVs said:

I have it.

I have issues with consistancy. Some games are monsters some games are 50k average.

Lmk if you want to use my account to try it out.

 

I already have played her enough to know what she's about, thank you though.  I had the same issue with consistency due to her not having that special something that lets her reliably get into good torp position.  Often times you are just left with spamming torps from bad angles or risk losing a lot of HP to muscle in.

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On 7/3/2019 at 3:39 PM, pikohan said:

I think it's a ship that will be disproportionately good against bad players and disproportionately bad against good players, and I don't really like that.

This a good description, Ive fouind that once the reds know your around they stay out of torp range, which is only good if your team can take advantage of keeping the reds at bay. If they do its usually a win, if not well we all know how that ends. And yes i have it and do play it check my stats if you like.

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