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Kami

Update 0.8.5.1

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Rank Sprint:

  • The fifth season of the Ranked Sprint will start on July 3rd and will run for a week until July 10th. Due to the decrease in the number of days, the complexity of the season is reduced - by 5, 4 and 3 ranks you need to get one star less to reach the next rank. The rewards of the season remain unchanged.
  • The sixth season will pass without changes: begin on July 11 and will go 12 days, till July 23.
  • Due to the error with the start of Sprint, the display of badges for achievements in the 12th Rank season will be reset. In the future, rank badges from the main Ranked Battles season will not be reset with the start of the Ranked Sprints but will remain available until at least one Ranked Battle has been played.

Balance Changes: 

  • Improved parameters of commander skill Survivability Expert: now increased aircraft HP for each ship tier is +25 instead of +15 (+30 instead of +20 unique commanders). At Tier X, this will give an increase of 250 points to aircraft HP, which will strengthen the aircraft by more than 10% and will allow the squadron to live longer under AA, taking into account the latest changes in mechanics in the update 0.8.5.

Fixed the following bugs:

 

  • Fixed a bug that prevented user music from playing when the setting "Listen to your own music" turn on.
  • Displays the names of the ships and the values range on the mini map no longer depend on the settings of alternative interface mode. They are now displayed on the Alt button or when the corresponding setting is enabled.
  • Contents of the standard container "Rogue Wave" is aligned with the description on the portal. Containers that were received and not opened prior to update 0.8.5.1 will also adjust their contents to correct.
  • Fixed a bug that would show the wrong clan tag on the patch when selecting a player in the team lists before, during, and after a battle.
     
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39 minutes ago, Kami said:

Balance Changes: 

  • Improved parameters of commander skill Survivability Expert: now increased aircraft HP for each ship tier is +25 instead of +15 (+30 instead of +20 unique commanders). At Tier X, this will give an increase of 250 points to aircraft HP, which will strengthen the aircraft by more than 10% and will allow the squadron to live longer under AA, taking into account the latest changes in mechanics in the update 0.8.5.

Nice start! Good to see WG no longer fixing with hammer and do it step by step. 

This is not enough for CV, I dear say it right now. But if WG keep going small step with careful analysis of data collected. I'm more confident that we can achieve a better balanced point. 

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Interesting that SE changes were rolled out instead of opting to actually balance AA. Really does little to improve the overall situation. If anything, it's just a band-aid on the larger issue that the CV experience is just terrible from multiple perspectives. From a gameplay experience, they are utterly un-enjoyable to play beacuse of these constant and unbalanced nerfs. From a defender perspective, they're horrible to play against since they'll constantly keep striking and spotting you (which CVs have to, nerfs limit CV options and reinforce finding isolated targets and making their life miserable beacuse thats all they can do now). From a community experience, its even worse since the unwarranted hate and vitriol that gets thrown at CV commanders is psychologically taxing and Wargaming seems apt to never respond to it. 

If you want me to say something constructive about this "band-aid", SE changes only help experienced players who have invested time into their commanders (so low tiers remain bad) whilst commanders who opted to not use SE (I don't know who wouldn't, CVs were unplayable without it even prior to 8.5) will miss out on this buff and still suffer under the unbalanced AA changes. Instead of increasing SE, would have it been so hard to say, reduce AA efficiency by 5-10%?

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43 minutes ago, sapient007 said:

Nice start! Good to see WG no longer fixing with hammer and do it step by step. 

This is not enough for CV, I dear say it right now. But if WG keep going small step with careful analysis of data collected. I'm more confident that we can achieve a better balanced point. 

I think you forgot a little but very important detail, was a capt skill that got "buffed", i see two options from here

1 train a new capt and get the skill

2 spend money to reset skill points

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Such a lazy attempt at "fixing" this issue.  This now means that the last tick of continuous AA damage wastes less damage on the tick.  WOO.

You still haven't addressed the issue of CVs being up-tiered.
You still haven't addressed the fact that you are still telling players to adapt, that skill will trump all, but yet you force players to go up against a system that requires no skill at all (AA).
You've shown a hobby to ignore the suggestions/feedback from the playerbase.
You still are forcing these heavy-handed "fixes" on the live server.

Guess we'll wait for 8.6 when you decide to hand out the next batch of CV nerfs because the few that are stubborn enough to still play CV will adapt and skew your numbers to making it look like the class is still over-achieving.

Edited by Sock5
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Aircraft carriers have been emasculated since 0.8.5. Maybe intended, maybe nerfed more than intended. I believe both the aircraft HP and aircraft regen need to be buffed quite a bit to make CVs playable again. This also facilitate the sales of upcoming Ark Royal.

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6 minutes ago, BlizzardHero said:

snippet 

I mostlty  agree. Currently working on playing "The big 3," Kaga/Saipan/GZ, to see how they feel. They went from unique tier 8 CV experiences to absolute garbage with the 0.8.5 patch. However, Kaga already feels better 8n 0.8.5.1. We will see about the others but I find them to be a good litmus test.

I do think AA values might have been the way to go overall but we will see.

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You buffed a captain skill?    Thats the first attempt at fixing this?    Ooooooooook.   I guess screw anyone without at least a 7 point captain eh?    Why not just buff all planes base health by the appropriate amount per tier instead?   Why tie this to a captain skill?   

Very odd.

Edited by Zenn3k

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5 minutes ago, Zenn3k said:

You buffed a captain skill?    Thats the first attempt at fixing this?    Ooooooooook.   I guess screw anyone without at least a 7 point captain eh?    Why not just buff all planes base health by the appropriate amount per tier instead?   Why tie this to a captain skill?   

Very odd.

as @taberuco pointed out, if you don't have it you need to spend cash to respec, i've already saw people asking in games when there will be free respec, I guess WG is only thinking about bottom line

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So, Wargaming hears the majority of players complaints about unstoppable airplanes, buffs the AA enough that the player can see an slight improvement (planes falling out of the sky), then turns around and buffs the HP on the planes (while hiding it in the capt. skills).  Net gain?  No, planes are just as unstoppable now as they were before the AA buff.  But good job on trying to make a visible attempt at fixing the problem, while not actually addressing the problem.  Just give us an opt out of CV games, and the problem is resolved....

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And then there's the problem of the untouchable ships.  Mino, Neptune and Worcester.  They aren't spotted until they start eating your planes, which they did plenty fast before the 0.8.5 AA buffs.  After the buffs it was ridiculous and this change to SE does nothing to balance those ships VS. planes. 

Kremlin is close to untouchable as well... could it be a Russian company?

Oh and NoZoupForYou sez that CVs are still too strong against DDs.  Really?  When a Shima can eat most of a Lexington's rocket planes?  Tell me more about this...

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Yeah, its not enough.   4 games, 62k damage (bottom tier), 50k damage, 50k damage (top tier but they died too fast), 21k damage (bottom tier).   Average PR of like 700, when I could commonly score 2000+ before.     Was averaging 85k damage before with occasional 100k+ games.    Average looks like its going to be maybe 50k.   

Having just ONE plane die from an attack effectively removes that entire attack group from the launch.    I wasn't getting de-planed, but I also NEVER went in with a full attack group either, pre-dropping every time as its now mandatory.   Pretty sure I did more damage to the water than I did to any ships.

If you're going to keep things this way, planes need more alpha damage, especially torpedoes and rockets.   DBs are probably fine damage wise, especially AP bombs.

These 4 games do not inspire me to want to continue playing the class that I was very much enjoying prior to 8.5.     Maybe I'm playing too cautiously, I dunno, but any aggressiveness resulted in a full squad wipe, even when boosting away from the AA, so I don't see much choice but to play so cautiously that I'm ineffective, at that point, why even play the CV?

Edited by Zenn3k

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10 hours ago, Kami said:

Improved parameters of commander skill Survivability Expert: now increased aircraft HP for each ship tier is +25 instead of +15 (+30 instead of +20 unique commanders). At Tier X, this will give an increase of 250 points to aircraft HP, which will strengthen the aircraft by more than 10% and will allow the squadron to live longer under AA, taking into account the latest changes in mechanics in the update 0.8.5.

Co-op player, I only play Graf Zeppelin [for carriers that is]. I stopped playing with her shortly after the speed nerf. I stopped playing my favorite carrier. Her plane HP is low because speed. Speed was nerfed. Then AA was buffed to target 1 plane at a time. The "fix" is picking a captain skill. Why balance around captain skills when there's such a thing as a 0 point captain? I shouldn't have to be picking SE to be effective in co-op.

And historically intended planes would be nice. That or make all the planes' skins the pretty Me155's that at least seem more plausible. My favorite BF110's seem more plausible as carrier planes than the Ta152s >.>

Edited by TwintailTickler
[added specifics]

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I played a few CV games yesterday just to see if this patch made any significant, noticeable change. Yes it did, but I have 19-point captains on all but 1 of my T8 and T10 CVs. 

The AA from normal ships wasn’t quite as bad. I did encounter a full AA spec Shima who was very annoying. Saw a Farragut shoot down lots of T8 planes. But at least I wasn’t guaranteed to lose the entire squad with the first drop. 

I moved the Russian-American captain with extra HP added to Survivability Expert from Midway to Lexington.  I switch the upgrade from bomber health to torpedo plane health. I liked bombing bigger targets, but torps are Lexington's Primary weapon for me.  These changes did help. However, the torp plane heal is virtually worthless. After all of the nerfs, the dive bombers have limited utility. 

And there are ships with stupidly strong AA that you cannot spot unless you sacrifice (many) planes. Minotard, Neptune, and Woostah in particular. NoZoupForYou says go after DDs, but Grozovoi, Udaloi, Kidd, and Harugumo think this is highly amusing. I guess I’m ok with the OP AA on selected DDs as their gimmick, but give us a 1 km spotting buffer for goodness sake.  

Playing surface ships, my plane kill numbers have gone up dramatically. Yamato used to be free food for CVs but no more. Sure you can still drop them but it will cost you planes.

I even played nekkid Yugumo (torp reload instead of smoke) for the first time in months. A good CV player with Lexington HVARs can punish you but it’s worth playing again. Who ordered that Torpedo soup?

Want the ultimate proof that the AA patch went too far and this little buff isn’t enough?  MM gave us a 4 DD per side game with CVs and the complaining at the start was all about needing to limit the number of DDs. :cap_haloween:

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Compensating for universally increased AA efficacy via a single (supposedly optional) 3-point captain skill is... an odd choice. Any particular reason plane base HP wasn't adjusted, instead? Confining the HP counter-balance buff in a captain skill both effectively removes all choice when it comes to picking your third captain skill, and puts players who don't yet have a 7-point captain on their carrier at an even more extreme disadvantage.

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So they broke my premium ships then offer a fix they want us to test requiring us to spend our gold for the respec.... if I was not already running SE I would be pissed.  Glad my computer is out of service for the next 3 weeks.  I will let WG figure this out on their own dime.

I really don't think they are going to find a mutually viable solution so long as they continue to listen to people who simply hate CV's and won't be happy until they are gone.  In order for an opinion to be validated the person needs to play both CV's and surface ships.  Anyone else is going to be biased.

Edited by HallaSnackbar
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