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Constalation

What are your opinions on Kremlin?

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Server Battles WinRate Average Kills Average Damage Average Experience Average Plane Destruction K/D
EU 101,498 54.01% 1.09 100,062 2002 7.00 2.05
NA 53,532 54.35% 1.13 100,736 1986 6.78 2.61
RU 39,662 56.41% 1.25 110,473 2043 7.99 2.41
ASIA 52,247 55.02% 1.02 97,841 1995 8.25 2.6

Here are server stats as of this now.  In my opinion, her guns are too accurate and her armour(citadel included) being impervious to all (non-super/battle/premium) cruiser AP and (Unless you take IFHE Hipper/Roon/Hinden) HE is a incredibly broken.  I think I should at least be able to damage kremlin consistently with heavy cruiser AP on a flat broadside. And what is that AA? Why does this ship, supposed to be vulnerable to DoTs, have an AA system that eclipses the USN? But I do not have Kremlin.  So what is your opinion on this mega BB? Am I wrong?

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You are not wrong... she is very potent, but be careful of the confirmation bias. The line has been out for just 1 update. The only people that have Kremlin are the good players or long term vets who fast tracked it to her for last ranked season. It's no surprise she has such good stats. 

 

She is strong in ranked, but that is by design. She was designed for close in strikes, which is entirely what ranked is. In randoms, she has to push in dangerously close for results a Montana can achieve from 20km away. There are trade offs, and the average/below average player will easily struggle with the line. 

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39 minutes ago, Constalation said:
Server Battles WinRate Average Kills Average Damage Average Experience Average Plane Destruction K/D
EU 101,498 54.01% 1.09 100,062 2002 7.00 2.05
NA 53,532 54.35% 1.13 100,736 1986 6.78 2.61
RU 39,662 56.41% 1.25 110,473 2043 7.99 2.41
ASIA 52,247 55.02% 1.02 97,841 1995 8.25 2.6

Here are server stats as of this now.  In my opinion, her guns are too accurate and her armour(citadel included) being impervious to all (non-super/battle/premium) cruiser AP and (Unless you take IFHE Hipper/Roon/Hinden) HE is a incredibly broken.  I think I should at least be able to damage kremlin consistently with heavy cruiser AP on a flat broadside. And what is that AA? Why does this ship, supposed to be vulnerable to DoTs, have an AA system that eclipses the USN? But I do not have Kremlin.  So what is your opinion on this mega BB? Am I wrong?

It wasn't built, but if it was then this would happen.

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I think it's a little too strong and a little too perfect for the meta. Bonus points because Kuznetzov is also a little too good.

The guns aren't all that bad from 15-20km which was apparently supposed to balance it's strengths. The citadel exists but only seems to be hittable when Kremlin is in it's happy zone (12km and under) and the broadside is absolutely perfectly flat. It apparently has some weaknesses, they just don't seem to be translating. The turret traverse and AA power just put it over the top. 

 

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Its a bit too accurate even at range. I've eaten massive damage hits in my dd from krem that is 14km away that most bb would struggle to replicate.

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Kremlin is what you get when you give WoWs ship stats building tool to a 5-year old and he goes crazy designing "the bestest ship of all time". This is the kind of thing you get when you type "How do you turn this on" into Age of Empires II's console commands.

This ship is basically a cheat. I find it very hard to believe that this ship was the result of a long, considered, careful design and balancing process.

I genuinely don't understand how it got cleared through testing. Its stats simply don't make sense.

  • Smaller detection radius than Moskva.
  • Faster turret traverse than Zao, Moskva and Henri.
  • More armour, horsepower and firepower despite being smaller (hence displacing less weight) than the likes of Montana, Yamato and GK.
  • Most HP pool in the game outright, despite being smaller than the likes of Montana, Yamato and GK.

These 4 alone make you think that all the previous talk of determining stats as a function of the ship's size and weight was either horse-excrement or got disregarded while designing this ship.

And then you have:

  • Better accuracy than cruisers. And no, that's not hyperbole. No cruiser in the game is able to consistently place all 9 of their shots within the width of a Khab's hull under 13km. There's almost no RNG in med-to-close range that gives smaller ships a chance to fight. Unless the guy is way off with his shots, you simply cannot dodge them. Even at ranges where it's supposed to be bad, it's still as accurate as a Yamato.
  • Virtually impervious to HE shells.
  • Virtually impervious the AP shells as long as angled.
  • Extremely hard to kill even with literal minutes of intense focus fire by several ships before its heal and repair are overwhelmed or exhausted.

This ship makes me think that either WG runs a very lax quality control and testing programme or they don't particularly listen to their testers. Because it's hard to believe that supertesters didn't ring alarm bells about this ship before release.

Despite conspiracy theories, it's getting harder and harder to argue that there is no "Russian bias" in this game.

Edited by yacskn
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10 minutes ago, _1204_ said:

You are not wrong... she is very potent, but be careful of the confirmation bias. The line has been out for just 1 update. The only people that have Kremlin are the good players or long term vets who fast tracked it to her for last ranked season. It's no surprise she has such good stats. 

Ehhh not necessarily true anymore. Between them selling access to the T8 through the event (could be earned for free too I suppose) and the fact that Free XP earning has become almost trite, I do not agree this is a valid excuse anymore.

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I think it's a good boat.

But I've averaged higher in the GK, Repub, and Montana in the last 3 weeks than the Kremlin. 

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Additionally, what a lot of people don't realize is the CV rework was a buff for battleships.

They were the class most easily wrecked by RTS CVs and with the fewest tools to deal with planes. Concealment matters least to them of the 3 surface ship classes. Cruisers (and some destroyers) had DefAA and better ability to defend against RTS planes than now. 

This means that newer battleships post-CV rework are in a better place purely based on their class, so it's unsurprising that new BB lines would appear strong .

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The Russian BBs seem to be performing significantly above par even for a new line, when compared to other launches. 

It’s also very easy to find good features be it the gunnery, aa, stealth, or the armor.

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She's basically GK without the awesome secondaries or immunity to point blank broadside citadel shots. Head on you're not not going to even scratch her. Any little broadside she shows and it's critical hit city.

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12 minutes ago, SYST3M_OVERIDE said:

She's basically GK without the awesome secondaries or immunity to point blank broadside citadel shots. Head on you're not not going to even scratch her. Any little broadside she shows and it's critical hit city.

Except that GK's guns are sad, sad things, upon which Kremlin looks and laughs.

tenor.gif?itemid=5877833

Edited by Battleship_Elisabeth

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The Russian BB's are very resistant to torps in general too. Especially from CV's. Sounds like a balance problem if a Kremlin pushes into cap and can't be killed by a DD...

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It helps with balance if Kremlin's short range dispersion is lightly nerfed. Current no battleship can win a brawl against Kremlin. (I'm a Kremlin player.)

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3 minutes ago, _Marines said:

It helps with balance if Kremlin's short range dispersion is lightly nerfed. Current no battleship can win a brawl against Kremlin. (I'm a Kremlin player.)

Every battleship can win a brawl against a Kremlin. Some have a harder time than others but it's not as clear cut as people assume. The Kremlin is great against ships in a 60 degree cone off its bow but it is punished very heavily if you make an angling mistake. Even the Montana is tougher to citadel in close, and it isn't tough to citadel.

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8 minutes ago, _Marines said:

It helps with balance if Kremlin's short range dispersion is lightly nerfed. Current no battleship can win a brawl against Kremlin. (I'm a Kremlin player.)

 

She could keep her short range if I think they nerf her long range dispersion , I just got mine but she seems to land a lot of shots between 15-20km that I catch myself saying...."whats the downside again?"

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On 7/1/2019 at 9:57 AM, Constalation said:
Server Battles WinRate Average Kills Average Damage Average Experience Average Plane Destruction K/D
EU 101,498 54.01% 1.09 100,062 2002 7.00 2.05
NA 53,532 54.35% 1.13 100,736 1986 6.78 2.61
RU 39,662 56.41% 1.25 110,473 2043 7.99 2.41
ASIA 52,247 55.02% 1.02 97,841 1995 8.25 2.6

Here are server stats as of this now.  In my opinion, her guns are too accurate and her armour(citadel included) being impervious to all (non-super/battle/premium) cruiser AP and (Unless you take IFHE Hipper/Roon/Hinden) HE is a incredibly broken.  I think I should at least be able to damage kremlin consistently with heavy cruiser AP on a flat broadside. And what is that AA? Why does this ship, supposed to be vulnerable to DoTs, have an AA system that eclipses the USN? But I do not have Kremlin.  So what is your opinion on this mega BB? Am I wrong?

OP. Too acurate guns and its TDS is another russian delirium due to them feeling small and diminished. Is not as easy to citadele as WG bootlickers will try to make you believe. 

BTW if you are facing him with GK you are dead.

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We need to wait another few patches before the Kremlin's numbers normalize - currently the people who own one are disproportionately composed of skilled players who either went up the line quickly or had free experience available. Both the Conqueror and Republique had similar issues when they were released, but their stats have largely fallen back into the pack. 

The Kremlin has weaknesses which are fairly easily covered by a skilled player - it basically amounts to "broadside = bad." Once average players get the ship and play it in a more typical fashion we will get better data. If the Kremlin is still over-performing at that point then it is time for WG to nerf it. If it is underperforming, buff it. 

It is too early to know either way. 

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On 7/1/2019 at 9:56 AM, enderland07 said:

Additionally, what a lot of people don't realize is the CV rework was a buff for battleships.

They were the class most easily wrecked by RTS CVs and with the fewest tools to deal with planes. Concealment matters least to them of the 3 surface ship classes. Cruisers (and some destroyers) had DefAA and better ability to defend against RTS planes than now. 

This means that newer battleships post-CV rework are in a better place purely based on their class, so it's unsurprising that new BB lines would appear strong .

100% , bb's imo are the biggest winners post 0.8.0

 

 

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20 minutes ago, MaxL_1023 said:

We need to wait another few patches before the Kremlin's numbers normalize - currently the people who own one are disproportionately composed of skilled players who either went up the line quickly or had free experience available. Both the Conqueror and Republique had similar issues when they were released, but their stats have largely fallen back into the pack. 

It can take ages before new a Tier X's' win rate completely normalizes.  There was a long period when the Z-52 had the best win rate of any Tier 10 DD, despite the disastrous launch of the German DD line with the last minute firing bloom nerf.   This effect can still even be seen with the Daring.  It has the best win rate of all Tier 10 DDs, being over 3% better than things like the Shima and Gearing, but War Gaming has confirmed in Q&As that the Daring is performing statically normal relative to the stats of her player base.  

In other words, after all this time the Daring's stats still haven't completely normalized.

Edited by yashma

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She's utterly broken in a good players hands. Crap in crap players hands. So it's not OP as it isn't over performing in all players hands. 

Very very few games in ranked where I died without 170k+ damage taken. I had one game the other day with 190k. It Stays alive for a long time and dishes out punishment. 

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4 minutes ago, Ducky_shot said:

She's utterly broken in a good players hands. Crap in crap players hands. So it's not OP as it isn't over performing in all players hands. 

Very very few games in ranked where I died without 170k+ damage taken. I had one game the other day with 190k. It Stays alive for a long time and dishes out punishment. 

It is hard to balance polarized ships like this, although it would be interesting to see if this is actually the case once more data is available. 

WOWS Numbers has data for 50%, 25%, 10% and 5% but I would like to see the other end of the spectrum as well.

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It is a very strong ship when you play it to it's strengths but it is also very unforgiving if you make a mistake. It is easier to citadel than even Yamato and if you don't angle enough you will eat cits/massive pen damage left and right (it isn't just flat broadside). It's slow for a T10 BB, the secondary guns are meh, and it maneuvers like a drunk whale. It is tough as nails when bow in and the closer you get the more accurate it is. The AA appears to be very strong too. It rewards proper play which I think all ships should do. Play them right and they should reward you. A skilled player will be very dangerous in a Kreml while a tater will die fast.

I like it a lot but don't find it to be vastly superior to most of the other T10 BB's and I have all of the tech tree T10 BB's...

  1. Republique: 300 games / 117,879 avg damage / 1.81 avg kills / 40% MBHR / 248,141 Best Game
  2. Großer Kurfurst: 152 games / 114,317 avg damage / 1.80 avg kills / 38% MBHR / 238,068 Best Game
  3. Montana: 393 games / 110,587 avg damage / 1.81 avg kills / 38% MBHR / 264,423 Best Game
  4. Yamato: 260 games / 108,276 avg damage / 1.58 avg kills / 36% MBHR / 265,771 Best Game
  5. Kreml: 118 games / 106,814 avg damage / 1.55 avg damage / 46% MBHR / 314,399 Best Game
  6. Conqueror: 133 games / 97,557 avg damage / 157 avg kills / 36% MBHR / 230,758 Best Game

So Kreml is near the bottom for me in average damage per game with a good enough sample size. It requires a certain playstyle and certain conditions to shine. OF course when you get those it can really deliver hence it having my highest damage of any T10 BB in a game. And, despite the ebst accuracy by far the avg damage is still 5th out of the 6 T10 tech tree BB's. I put it on par with Montana and Republique overall.

JMHO YMMV

 

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It's a ship that is highly rewarding if the captain plays aggressively (and has aggressive supporting teammates), but suffers - for obvious reasons - on certain maps where cover is hard to come by, or if the Kremlin winds up on a flank where his teammates die, and he is forced to kite.

Honestly, I'm interested in acquiring one, but only after Slava is released and we know what the latter is like in its final form. 

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Kremlin gets burned down extremely quickly, my Georgia, Henri, Zao, and Alsace have burned down far too many of them to count, you fight kremlin from range...not from close to mid range, since the closer she gets the more accurate her guns became, at long distance her dispersion leave a lot to be desired.  I don't need to hit her citadel to take down one.

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