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Herr_Reitz

Survivability Expert - Gimme for free

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2 hours ago, Radar_X said:

Hey folks, we do understand there is a lot of feedback around today's change.  We're still looking into additional changes as they are necessary, so please let us know how CVs feel (both playing and playing against). 

If we need further adjustments based on the data we receive, it will happen and again bear in mind further AA changes are being tested and a sector AA design is in process. 

I do have to agree with other posters. It's hard to try out the changes on CVs unless you spend doubloons on resetting them. I feel like captain on CVs should be able to be reset for free because of these changes.

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Sometimes I wonder if they should make CVs take Vigilance to be able to see torpedoes again. Just to give someone a reason to take it and not be considered a joke. 

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4 hours ago, FindingMeOverloadsPortUI said:

This is why SE is worth spending 3 points. Don't just look at tiny numbers, but do the math and calculate yourself whether the skill is worth or not. Additional effective planes gives you additional seconds that can decide whether you can manage to drop or not.

Seriously? Who's looking at tiny numbers. Do the match and calculate yourself. 

1. THEY nerfed it too much. 
2. I am expected to pay for their mistake.
3. Your numbers are messed up in the display, but essentially you feel that less than a whole plane at Tier X is "worth it"?  Maybe clean up your post and I'll review your numbers again. 

My math says "your mistake, your cost". Why need I give up other commander skills and PAY FOR THE PRIVILEGE when it was fine Sunday? 

Nope. 

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4 hours ago, Radar_X said:

Hey folks, we do understand there is a lot of feedback around today's change.  We're still looking into additional changes as they are necessary, so please let us know how CVs feel (both playing and playing against). 

If we need further adjustments based on the data we receive, it will happen and again bear in mind further AA changes are being tested and a sector AA design is in process. 

So avoid my question - where's the coinage/ability to forcibly respec my commanders coming from? Not from me, that much is sure. 

Seriously @Radar_X you guys want me to pay for it? Fat chance. Let me know when the next wonderful adjustment comes along in 8.6. I can play OP RUBBs and other OP ships until then. 

And since I always ask, WHEN are you guys going to bring the much maligned, super-overboard expense to run carriers in-line with their other tier ships? What? Never? Yea. Okay. 

Some reason this is a real hot button issue for me today. Like I said earlier, "we make mistake, you pay for it. Or don't play. Doesn't matter to us." 

Edited by Herr_Reitz

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4 hours ago, Pytheas said:

Stop giving CVs the power to ruin everyone's game.

Stop giving anti-CV whiners the power to post their biased opinions.  I mean, they don't offer any actual suggestion other than "remove the class" so there opinion is worthless in the conversation.  

Edited by comtedumas

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5 hours ago, Radar_X said:

Hey folks, we do understand there is a lot of feedback around today's change.  We're still looking into additional changes as they are necessary, so please let us know how CVs feel (both playing and playing against). 

If we need further adjustments based on the data we receive, it will happen and again bear in mind further AA changes are being tested and a sector AA design is in process. 

The other players are right, if you are going to make a major change like making survivability expert mandidtory you need to give a free respec so they can make the change.  

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5 hours ago, Radar_X said:

Hey folks, we do understand there is a lot of feedback around today's change.  We're still looking into additional changes as they are necessary, so please let us know how CVs feel (both playing and playing against). 

If we need further adjustments based on the data we receive, it will happen and again bear in mind further AA changes are being tested and a sector AA design is in process. 

An explanation (not the complex data) as to why keeping it complex would be nice. I mean, 0.8.0 CV was easy to play (excellent selling point), and only AA needed tweaking so AA build is deadly. However, WG's issue is keeping it complex rather than make it simple to play. Most of anti-CV upset came from feeling AA ineffective, and adjusting it so it hits even dodging CV w/ flak around 30-50% of the time would've been a good balance.

I doubt WG will get it. Sledgehammer and nerfing CV repeatedly wasn't the answer. Making AA up to par was.

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5 hours ago, Radar_X said:

Hey folks, we do understand there is a lot of feedback around today's change.  We're still looking into additional changes as they are necessary, so please let us know how CVs feel (both playing and playing against). 

If we need further adjustments based on the data we receive, it will happen and again bear in mind further AA changes are being tested and a sector AA design is in process. 

Can you shed light on this:

"Balance Edits

Improved parameters of commander skill Survivability Expert: now increased aircraft HP for each ship tier is +25 instead of +15 (+30 instead of +20 unique commanders). At X level, this will give an increase of 250 points to aircraft HP, which will strengthen the aircraft by more than 10% and will allow the squadron to live longer under AA, taking into account the latest changes in mechanics in the update 0.8.5."

 

Question: The Unique Commanders get +30? Does that apply to ALL Unique Commanders? That would be nice because from what I see there is only ONE Unique Commander ( Alexander Ovechkin ) that benefits from this... Please do not tell me that only the USA Carriers get to have this benefit...

https://wiki.wargaming.net/en/Ship:Unique_Commanders

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1 hour ago, Herr_Reitz said:

So avoid my question - where's the coinage/ability to forcibly respec my commanders coming from? Not from me, that much is sure. 

Seriously @Radar_X you guys want me to pay for it? Fat chance. Let me know when the next wonderful adjustment comes along in 8.6. I can play OP RUBBs and other OP ships until then. 

And since I always ask, WHEN are you guys going to bring the much maligned, super-overboard expense to run carriers in-line with their other tier ships? What? Never? Yea. Okay. 

Some reason this is a real hot button issue for me today. Like I said earlier, "we make mistake, you pay for it. Or don't play. Doesn't matter to us." 

Got to admit I had to LOL when I saw their "fix" to AA being too strong now was a tiny buff to a Capt skill. WHAT??? :Smile_facepalm:

Also agree, would be nice if they addressed how much more it costs to play CV seeing as they earn for squat as well.

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8 hours ago, Herr_Reitz said:

Well me, mister tech tree, will step further away from the game. More time elsewhere, other games, other things, just life in general. They may not know it but they're helping me kick the addiction this game produces in folks. Thanks WoWS/WG! 

Come on how long have you been saying that ????? Your an addict like all the rest of us you need professional help to quit . First thing you must admit is your an addict . Then attend weekly meetings and if necessary you may have  to spend upwards of 3 weeks at the Betty Ford clinic for WOWS ADDICTS . I wish you the best of luck .

Edited by clammboy

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32 minutes ago, clammboy said:

Come on how long have you been saying that ????? Your an addict like all the rest of us you need professional help to quit . First thing you must admit is your an addict . Then attend weekly meetings and if necessary you may have  to spend upwards of 3 weeks at the Betty Ford clinic for WOWS ADDICTS . I wish you the best of luck .

More than a few weeks but I can tell you my game play is waaaaay down... way down. But thanks for your best wishes. I really was ready to buy the Big I RN carrier promised, you know, the one with only two plane types? Jiminy Crickets they are so lost with that one I can't remember the last time they officially even mentioned it... Now if they talk any RN carrier, it's the Ark Royal. 

But man I do admit they gamed me... fortunately for me, my wife prevents it from becoming a full-blown, ruin your bank account addiction.

There's a person on Reddit who claimed they spend 100 to 200 a MONTH on this game! Phew. I sincerely thanked them because that's at best a half year but more likely a full year for me.

I'm cheap in my addiction. 

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More hp, through skill or not, is good. Patching it in and not resetting CV captain skills was very dumb. 

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11 hours ago, FindingMeOverloadsPortUI said:

Ok, lets look at some numbers before you start claiming even more nonsense.

 

ggCEZ51.png

Those are some simple calculation of plane HP, squadron HP with SE and without SE ea + post and pre buff ea too. So what does these numbers tell?

 

QcdnZkd.png

If you look at the quotient between how many net HP a squadron gained with SE and individual plane HP with SE, you can interpret the numbers as how many planes the squadron gained virtually and effectively.

For example: Midway DB has 12 planes per squadron. With SE it the entire squadron has a net HP gain of 1800 HP pre buff and 3000 HP post buff. Single Midway TB with SE has 2310 HP pre buff and 2410 HP post buff. Now take both numbers and build a quotient of each. That gives us:

77,92% for pre buff and 124,48% post buff. This means pre buff Midway TB with SE has effectively 12,78 planes per squadron instead of 12. You have additional gain of 0,78 plane that can tank AA.

Post buff you Midway TB has effectively 13,24 planes per squadron instead of 12. You have additional 1,24 planes that can tank AA.

This is why SE is worth spending 3 points. Don't just look at tiny numbers, but do the math and calculate yourself whether the skill is worth or not. Additional effective planes gives you additional seconds that can decide whether you can manage to drop or not.

Sorry tree, you make too much sense. People on the forums won't understand that. 

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12 hours ago, ksix said:

More hp, through skill or not, is good. Patching it in and not resetting CV captain skills was very dumb. 

Agree. The point of my post. @Kami are you guys seriously expecting us to pay the doubloons to reset skills? 

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On 7/1/2019 at 7:37 AM, Cruxdei said:

if they just increased the hp of the planes a little,it would be the same thing,but no money from the doubloon respec.

but no,they gotta increase it with a commander  skill that people hardly used.

Not going to make much of a god damn difference anyway. (never has, a small increase isn't going to magically change the fact they massively screwed over CVs, again)

 

They NEEDED to reduce the replacement times to something around 30-40 seconds over having it [edited] off over a minute. -OR- increase the amount of reserves. 

 

This Nerf to CVs is basically "Don't bother playing the class unless you are top tier".

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14 hours ago, Ducky_shot said:

Sorry tree, you make too much sense. People on the forums won't understand that. 

Unfortunately for you.

 

And whoever wasted their time with the graph. You failed to understand that while say at T8 (the Tier that is literally the most [edited] of the lot right now, thanks WG).

 

80 more HP per plane is less than 1 second more of AA fire for all T8-10 Ships.

 

So like I stated earlier, Just something to keep in mind. It's nearly useless. 

 

Fun fact, the Yamatos (non-AA specced) Short range AA battery can drop a plane a second.

 

Don't worry they only take 60+ seconds to replace.

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26 minutes ago, Sakuzhi said:

Unfortunately for you.

 

And whoever wasted their time with the graph. You failed to understand that while say at T8 (the Tier that is literally the most [edited] of the lot right now, thanks WG).

 

80 more HP per plane is less than 1 second more of AA fire for all T8-10 Ships.

 

So like I stated earlier, Just something to keep in mind. It's nearly useless. 

 

Fun fact, the Yamatos (non-AA specced) Short range AA battery can drop a plane a second.

 

Don't worry they only take 60+ seconds to replace.

How much are skills like BFT giving you on a light cruiser?? Less than a second. 

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47 minutes ago, FindingMeOverloadsPortUI said:

Anyone who plays CV and has understanding know that SE is one of first skill to grap. You need basically only 10 point captain to take the most essential skills.

Namely this

a.PNG.d5bb5829d7106a2fe967f97862af236a.PNG

 

And 10 point captain is really really easy to make and many players also have 10 point captains around.

My top priority skills differ a bit from yours.

-Better service time is nice, but the percentage is so small that I question how often it really makes a difference. It's 5%, isn't it? That's only a difference of a few seconds of you're waiting for a plane to generate, and a very minor increase in the actual number of planes you can possibly generate in a 20 minute game. I'll pick up this skill much later on if I have the points, but it's not high priority.

-Boost duration is definitely the biggest 1-pointer. Boost is being used constantly, and in practice affects both your total average DPM, and your plane survivability. Big win.

-The speed increase is a nice skill (since speed is both plane survivability and DPS for carriers), but the increase is fairly small. I definitely like to take this skill fairly early, but it's not because l necessarily a must-have right away. Instead, I usually take...

-Torpedo acceleration. This skill might not be as important on Japanese carriers (I don't have much experience with them), but it's very important for the other two nations. The effect on perfectly-broadside drops is minimal, but the effect on drops with any amount of chase involved is substantial. The speed increase might not SOUND like much, but when you look at relative speeds / speed deltas between torpedos and the ships you're trying to hit with them, the speed increase is very significant. The increased torpedo speed gives you a lot more flexibility with what you can do with drops. I like to get it ASAP, too, so don't have to re-learn my leads and angles later on.

-Totally agree with both 3-point survivability skills. Every bit of survivability helps. The sturdier your planes are, the more you can press your attacks and the more situations you can attack in. I usually go for survivability expert first since it helps with all types of incoming plane damage, and (I assume) makes your hull itself able to take a little more punishment as a bonus.

Once I have boost duration, torpedo acceleration, and the two survivability skills, then I'll start looking other more ship-and-situation-specific ones. Those are my must-have ASAP core.

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6 hours ago, Frenotx said:

My top priority skills differ a bit from yours.

-Better service time is nice, but the percentage is so small that I question how often it really makes a difference. It's 5%, isn't it? That's only a difference of a few seconds of you're waiting for a plane to generate, and a very minor increase in the actual number of planes you can possibly generate in a 20 minute game. I'll pick up this skill much later on if I have the points, but it's not high priority.

-Boost duration is definitely the biggest 1-pointer. Boost is being used constantly, and in practice affects both your total average DPM, and your plane survivability. Big win.

-The speed increase is a nice skill (since speed is both plane survivability and DPS for carriers), but the increase is fairly small. I definitely like to take this skill fairly early, but it's not because l necessarily a must-have right away. Instead, I usually take...

-Torpedo acceleration. This skill might not be as important on Japanese carriers (I don't have much experience with them), but it's very important for the other two nations. The effect on perfectly-broadside drops is minimal, but the effect on drops with any amount of chase involved is substantial. The speed increase might not SOUND like much, but when you look at relative speeds / speed deltas between torpedos and the ships you're trying to hit with them, the speed increase is very significant. The increased torpedo speed gives you a lot more flexibility with what you can do with drops. I like to get it ASAP, too, so don't have to re-learn my leads and angles later on.

-Totally agree with both 3-point survivability skills. Every bit of survivability helps. The sturdier your planes are, the more you can press your attacks and the more situations you can attack in. I usually go for survivability expert first since it helps with all types of incoming plane damage, and (I assume) makes your hull itself able to take a little more punishment as a bonus.

Once I have boost duration, torpedo acceleration, and the two survivability skills, then I'll start looking other more ship-and-situation-specific ones. Those are my must-have ASAP core.

FWIW I prefer the added damage I can potentially get with DE over SE. I know, I know, it won't help - but it seems to make a difference. Maybe someone can test it out. But that's the good thing about the game, we are free to config the way we want. 

No commander xp cause I rebuilt a RU commander for the upcoming RS battles. So, again, I'm not spending upwards of 450 doubloons per commander to respec them for what someone has said is essentially another one second of flight time. 

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1 hour ago, Herr_Reitz said:

FWIW I prefer the added damage I can potentially get with DE over SE. I know, I know, it won't help - but it seems to make a difference. Maybe someone can test it out. But that's the good thing about the game, we are free to config the way we want. 

No commander xp cause I rebuilt a RU commander for the upcoming RS battles. So, again, I'm not spending upwards of 450 doubloons per commander to respec them for what someone has said is essentially another one second of flight time. 

I like DE on the RN carriers. I think I have it on some of my US carriers, too. For me, though, the plane survivability comes first, and the smaller, more specific damage perks come once those core skills are taken care of. None of the 4-point skills appeal to me, which leaves more points for the cheaper skills.

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7 hours ago, Frenotx said:

I like DE on the RN carriers. I think I have it on some of my US carriers, too. For me, though, the plane survivability comes first, and the smaller, more specific damage perks come once those core skills are taken care of. None of the 4-point skills appeal to me, which leaves more points for the cheaper skills.

I use the 4pt aim improvement whatever it's called. There are options there so there are options... I found prior to this last "fix" the RN planes were tanky enough I never needed to worry about losing planes. I could almost always pull two attacks with minimal losses. Their "fix" fixed that to be sure. 

This all reminds me of the BB rudder shift fiasco, when dds were complaining BBs could turn too quickly, so they nerfed all the BB rudder rates. Then told us you can use this skill to get most of it back. Today that's a completely forgotten occurrence on the trail of development but at the time, people were hot under the collar. 

It seems no respec is coming so my carriers will just sit. I only have 90 plus other ships to play. 

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CV players: "you just have to spec for AA"

Also CV players: "wait, what you want us to spec for survivability!?"

I like where WG is going with this.

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22 hours ago, Frenotx said:

My top priority skills differ a bit from yours.

-Better service time is nice, but the percentage is so small that I question how often it really makes a difference. It's 5%, isn't it? That's only a difference of a few seconds of you're waiting for a plane to generate, and a very minor increase in the actual number of planes you can possibly generate in a 20 minute game. I'll pick up this skill much later on if I have the points, but it's not high priority.

-Boost duration is definitely the biggest 1-pointer. Boost is being used constantly, and in practice affects both your total average DPM, and your plane survivability. Big win.

-The speed increase is a nice skill (since speed is both plane survivability and DPS for carriers), but the increase is fairly small. I definitely like to take this skill fairly early, but it's not because l necessarily a must-have right away. Instead, I usually take...

-Torpedo acceleration. This skill might not be as important on Japanese carriers (I don't have much experience with them), but it's very important for the other two nations. The effect on perfectly-broadside drops is minimal, but the effect on drops with any amount of chase involved is substantial. The speed increase might not SOUND like much, but when you look at relative speeds / speed deltas between torpedos and the ships you're trying to hit with them, the speed increase is very significant. The increased torpedo speed gives you a lot more flexibility with what you can do with drops. I like to get it ASAP, too, so don't have to re-learn my leads and angles later on.

-Totally agree with both 3-point survivability skills. Every bit of survivability helps. The sturdier your planes are, the more you can press your attacks and the more situations you can attack in. I usually go for survivability expert first since it helps with all types of incoming plane damage, and (I assume) makes your hull itself able to take a little more punishment as a bonus.

Once I have boost duration, torpedo acceleration, and the two survivability skills, then I'll start looking other more ship-and-situation-specific ones. Those are my must-have ASAP core.

 

5% on AS is 5%, no matter how small the number is. Benefit is benefit but I do see your point.

 

The speed increase is crucuially connected to your DPM and survivability. 2.5% more speed means 2.5% less time spent in AA. If you spend 5 seconds in AA without improved engines, you will also take less AA damage.

If you travel 5% faster, you will also likely strike 5% more often

 

TA can be taken for USN and RN carriers but they are more preference skill. You can take it but its not a must have.

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