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fbifiles

German battleship split line

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1. introduction
    All of the tier X battleships can be quite tanky. However, this split line, and particularly the tier X, would specialize in the tanking role rather then it being a secondary role. This line will incorporate a somewhat Kremlin/Slava like approach to the tier X compared to the Kurfurst (i.e., different but not too different).

2. overview and general info
    This line splits off from the Bayern at tier VI stating at tier VII. The ships in this line will likely have excellent HE protection thanks to an English-German armor system. That along with a half decent torpedo protection (30 to 35 percent) should allow for a good level of tankyness. Their armament will be somewhat generic, not bad but not great. The secondary battery would be quite mediocre for a German battleship. This line would have HE shells with 1/6 HE pen instead of 1/4 like the rest of the German battleships. The AA won't likely differ much from the current Germans.

    The dispersion curve that this line uses would NOT be the dispersion curve used by German (and I think French) battleships. This line would use the U.S./British/Japanese dispersion curve. Thus allowing the ships of this line to hit stuff at ranges of 12 to 16 km, which is also the optimum range for these ships to tank.

 3. ship by ship analysis
    As for an in-depth view of the ships in this split

Tier VII L 22c
    The L 22c was an early design for the L 20e a class battleship. The L 22c will likely resemble a larger Bayern. The L 22c will probably play like the Bayern. She will likely have a speed of 26.5 knots, and her AA will likely be a minor but good enough upgrade with the most notable change being two extra twin 4.1 inch (105mm) guns and a few more 37 mm guns over null B Bayern.

Tier VIII H 40 scheme A
    The H 40 scheme A was one of two designs for the H 40 which would become the H 41 (FDG ingame). The most noticeable difference is that the H 40 scheme A only has three twin turrets in a 2-2-A-2 configuration. However, she will likely have 16 inch (406mm) or 16.5 inch (420mm) guns with about a 28 sec reload. You can think of her either as a larger Gneisenau with 16 inch guns and no torpedos or a smaller three turret version of the FDG.

Tier IX L 20e a
    The L 20e a was the final design from a long series of design for what was supposed to be the successor to the Bayern. She was supposed to mount 16.5 inch (420mm) guns in a 2-2-A-2-2 configuration. She will likely have the L 24e a's (sister design) speed of 27.5 knots. In fact, for all intents and purposes, this is L 24e a. She would have turreted 4.1 inch (105mm) guns and casement mounted 5.9 inch (150mm) guns for a secondary battery. Her AA will likely resemble FDG's AA.

Tier X H 42
    The H 42 being here at tier X is somewhat out of necessity because I couldn't find any other ship design that would fit. Now I am aware that the H 42, H 43, and H 44 were never seriously considered by the OKM (Oberkommando der Marine translated as High Command of the Navy or Upper Command of the Navy) and she would be over the 80.000-ton limit (which I confirmed is still a thing). However, the Kurfurst, while being for the most part fictional, was based on the H 42 design (and somehow still conforms to the tonnage limit), so if whatever was done to the Kurfurst is done to the H 42 whos to say the H 42 design couldn't fit in the game. One thing to note is that while I keep calling her H 42, this ship would be more akin to a modified Kurfurst then a "proper" or design accurate H 42.

    stats
        health: 108,000 to 110,500
        base concealment: ~18 km
        turning circle: ~1100m
        rudder shift time: ~21.5 sec
        speed: 28 knots
        armor: see below
        guns: eight 16.5 inch (420mm) guns likely doing 13,500 maximun shell damage for a DPB of 108.000 damage or eight 18 inch (457mm) guns likely doing 15,100 maximum shell damage for a DPB of 120,800 damage
        gun range:~ 21.5 km
        torpedos:N/A
        base reload: 25 sec for 420s
                               30 sec for 457s
        AA: likely similar to Kurfurst

    When it comes to her stats, the H 42 should be somewhat slow for her tier, easy to see and should turn about as well as the Antarctic continent (polar ice cap included). This was done to reinforce her as a tanking battleship and to give her a decently high skill floor. She would have the opportunity to choose between 420mm and 457mm guns. That's because Garzke and Dulin say she would have been armed with 420mm (16.54 inch) guns, but according to Erich Gröner (German Warships: 1815–1945) she would have been armed with 480mm (18.9 inch) but since there are no plans to go bigger than 460mm (18.1 inch) I downsized them to 457mm (18 inch) Her AP shell damage should keep up with the German AP shell performance.

     Her secondary and AA configuration will likely resemble Kurfurst with one notable difference, whereas Kurfurst has ten twin 128mm (5 inch) guns and four twin 150mm (5.9 inch) guns as her secondary battery with the 128s being dual purpose. The H 42 has eight twin 105mm (4.1 inch) guns and six twin 128mm (5 inch) guns, all of which would be dual purpose. Think of an FDG with her 150mm guns replaced with 128s, and you wouldn't be far off.  That should give her a pretty good long range. That on top of the Kurfursts current AA configuration should give her overall decent AA. However, of course, her AA will likely depend on what is needed for balance. Her secondary battery range will probably be 6 km out of the box as not to encourage players to secondary build her.

3.5 H 42 armor
    Now when it comes to the H 42's armor, ship tonnage has to be taken into account. However, the main battery here consists of eight guns in four twin turrets. Thus the turrets and barbettes should be smaller and (in theory) lighter. That should help to save some weight; however, some of the armor would still need to be changed for good measure.  As a result, compared to the Kurfurst, some of the armor plates would be thinned, and a few would be thickened. Let me list them.

The plates that would be thinned are:
The 120mm sections of the fore end armor belt would be reduced to 100mm.
The 150mm and 280mm sections of the upper armor belt would have both been reduced to 120mm.
The 150mm turtle back would be reduced to 130mm.
The 380mm turret rear armor would be reduced to 300mm but only if it isn't needed as a counterweight.
The 175 mm turret floor armor would be reduced to 130mm.

The plates that would be thickened are:
The 380mm armor belt would be increased to 400mm (or 410mm if possible).
The 50mm sections of the deck would be increased to 60mm.
While not thickened, the 60mm fore end armor belt would wrap around the bow.

And if there is tonnage left over after the above increases:
The 380mm barbette armor would be increased to at least 420mm (up to 450mm if possible).
The turret face plate armor would be increased to 450mm (up to 480mm if possible).
The turret roof armor would be increased to 250mm.

    I tried to remove armor from places where it isn't necessarily needed (like the fore end armor belt) without decreasing its effectiveness and add it where it is needed (like the main armor belt). The increases in the turret and barbette armor would only be done if there is sufficient tonnage left over from the other armor increases because turret armor isn't as important in-game as it was IRL. Like I said before, thinking of this ship as a modified Kurfurst would make much more sense than thinking of her as a design accurate H 42.

I want to note; I don't know how to configure the armor scheme and thickness best to fit this game best. I know how to do it IRL, just not ingame. Thus I've configured her armor to better suit IRL but to keep the English-German armor scheme that gives her such good HE protection.

4. playstyle, quirks and other random bits
    The playstyle is rather simple, you tank and tank and tank some more. Ther armor scheme and large health pools that are features of this line will come in handy in the tanking role. Great care should be taken when hostile DDs or HE spamming cruisers are nearby and paying attention to you (your not doing your job right if they aren't). Because you would be a tempting target for torpedos thanks to your lack of maneuverability and do to the way DOT's work in this game, your large HP pool will work against you.  Just because you have a significant health pool and armor best suited for tanking doesn't mean you don't have any offensive power. Your guns should allow you to slug it out with other battleships with a fighting chance of coming out on top. This lines consumables should be familiar to German battleship captains (or any battleship captain). I don't know whether to give this line Hydro, they would have good torp protection, but it isn't that good, and they would take a while to respond to rudder commands. I'm leaning towards yes mainly because it's a German line trait. Thus the consumables will look like this:
        Slot 1. Damage Control Party
        Slot 2. Repair Party
        Slot 3. Catapult Fighter/Spotter Plane
        Slot 4. Hydroacoustic Search (tier VIII+)

    I have been thinking about new consumables, more specifically, a consumable that makes you a more attractive target. Something that makes enemies unable to target allies is the first thing that comes to mind, but that might be rather annoying. Of course, that might be the point of a consumable like this. Stats: maybe 20 KM range  (the range from you that enemy ships are affected ) 60-sec duration 240/180 sec recharge time. This consumable (from now on dubbed shoot me consumable) would be quite useful if you are in a division with a DD. Example: DD goes for cap, DD gets radared, you activate shoot me consumable, radar cruiser cant shoot DD accurately, DD can escape or get to cover while taking little or no damage. This consumable will be of little value to someone who only plays for themselves, not for the team. Unfortunately, players like this are quite common. If this shoot me consumable does become a thing this line will definitely have Hydro. Whether shoot me consumable will have its own slot (Slot 5), or if you have to trade another consumable for it, it will likely be in slot 3.

5. conclusion
    So that's the German battleship split line. This line is interesting. Its playstyle is focused on a job that all battleships and quite a few cruisers can do to some extent, but this line is supposed to excel at it. I would like to hear your thoughts on the armor changes, the shoot me consumable, and the line in general. I put up polls for you guys to vote on. Just in case anybody is concerned about health pool power creep 110,500 is the absolute highest I'm going to go because health is in part determined by tonnage and a ship that would have more than 110,500 health would likely be over 80,000 tons. If anybody has a chart regarding how health is calculated I'd love to see it. The next post I'm likely going to do will be the US battlecruiser line. That post will probably be out before August.

This post but with a poll, go here to vote.

https://forum.worldofwarships.com/topic/194900-german-battleship-split-line/?do=findComment&comment=4567808

Edited by fbifiles

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42 minutes ago, fbifiles said:

 turning circle: ~1100m
        rutter shift time: ~21.5 sec

Might need a much faster rudder when this thing needs the entire map to turn around, or you're going to be the one ship every Asashio and Shima captain dreams of finding (and with an 18km base concealment that won't be difficult.) Although adding the rudder upgrade drops this to 16secs, however the size of the ship and intended playstyle practically necessitates using dam con mod 2 in that slot because fires and HE spam will make it a nice BBQ without it. Maybe buff this rudder to around 15-16 secs as a start and go from there.

45 minutes ago, fbifiles said:

base reload: 25 sec for 420s
                               30 sec for 457s

30 second reload on eight 457s doesn't work, just ask yourself when was the last time you saw a 457 Conqueror that is actually a good player. Overmatching 30mm of armor is not really worth the trade in DPM. its also worth mentioning that 406 Kurfurst with reload mod has the Highest DPM of T10 BBs, and what H42 offers (60mm deck) could easily be applied to Kurfurst and in mid range combat, you'd easily notice H42's lack of gun barrels and DPM, especially if this engagement is against a Kurfurst. Dropping the reload of the 420s to 24secs and the reload of the 457s to 28sec could be viable.

On another note, while American/British BB dispersion is slightly better than German, having 8 guns offsets this better accuracy. to make use of better accuracy with fewer guns, I could suggest a dispersion curve similar to RU BBs, but not as dramatic. It'd be good dispersion up to maybe 15km, but nowhere near as good as Kremlin's accuracy would be at the same distances.

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now, correct me if im wrong, but isnt the Kurfurst supposed to be the H42 but with 4 triple turrets? i think ive heard that somewhere

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1 hour ago, GX9900A said:

double post why?

 

One has a poll for you to vote and tell me what you think.

 

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31 minutes ago, tfcas119 said:

Might need a much faster rudder when this thing needs the entire map to turn around, or you're going to be the one ship every Asashio and Shima captain dreams of finding (and with an 18km base concealment that won't be difficult.) Although adding the rudder upgrade drops this to 16secs, however the size of the ship and intended playstyle practically necessitates using dam con mod 2 in that slot because fires and HE spam will make it a nice BBQ without it. Maybe buff this rudder to around 15-16 secs as a start and go from there.

30 second reload on eight 457s doesn't work, just ask yourself when was the last time you saw a 457 Conqueror that is actually a good player. Overmatching 30mm of armor is not really worth the trade in DPM. its also worth mentioning that 406 Kurfurst with reload mod has the Highest DPM of T10 BBs, and what H42 offers (60mm deck) could easily be applied to Kurfurst and in mid range combat, you'd easily notice H42's lack of gun barrels and DPM, especially if this engagement is against a Kurfurst. Dropping the reload of the 420s to 24secs and the reload of the 457s to 28sec could be viable.

On another note, while American/British BB dispersion is slightly better than German, having 8 guns offsets this better accuracy. to make use of better accuracy with fewer guns, I could suggest a dispersion curve similar to RU BBs, but not as dramatic. It'd be good dispersion up to maybe 15km, but nowhere near as good as Kremlin's accuracy would be at the same distances.

The rudder shift time and turning circle are meant to emphasize her as a tanking ship and to restrict her to mid-range combat. Although I do see your point about a shorter rudder shift time. I was basing the 457 reload off the Conqueror, but you do make a point. However, balance would ultimately be up to the WOWS devs and that assuming this line even makes it into the game.

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24 minutes ago, tcbaker777 said:

now, correct me if im wrong, but isnt the Kurfurst supposed to be the H42 but with 4 triple turrets? i think ive heard that somewhere

I asked the WOWS devs about this once. Turns out she designed by the WOWS devs using a triple turret design drawing but the Kurfurst herself was based on the H 42, not a triple turret H42

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2 hours ago, fbifiles said:

        Slot 4. Hydroacoustic Search (tier VIII+)

As potentially secondary-build, bow tanking brawlers, they should equipped with radar. It helps to clear out campers before the push.

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