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Wepps

Submarines are ruining this game...

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First.

But seriously, we just had to do a complete rework of the fundamental mechanics of aircraft carriers, then told the players it's an ongoing process of balance after 3 years and 6 months of design and just learn to dodge AA, which is not really the problem. Explain how subs will affect the game play?

Subs versus convoys, that's fun. I'd love to play that game. But an entirely separate game, or at least sub servers. But if you intend to introduce these to the ongoing battle servers in existence now, I see nothing good coming from that for anybody involved.

 

 

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I don't think we're going to see subs as a new ships type with full lines any time soon. My guess is that we'll first see events with subs in them. I think (hope) WG learned their lesson with the CV rework on dumping huge changes in all at once.

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Don't worry about subs, they'll come out, super OP, get the "all good now, here buy a premium pack for 200 hundo" and then they'll lose the ability to submerge after 3 months.

BBs will whine a while, subs will be all "just dodge yo".  Then there will the typical trolls switching names to "report subs" "delete subs".

Then after a year or so, they'll introduce cold-war era vessels (besides the USSR ships we already have).  Then we'll get missiles and who knows what else and the cycle will repeat. 

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5 minutes ago, Rocketpacman said:

It'll undoubtedly be a mess. But subs should honestly be much easier to balance than CVs. 

Subs will make the CV rework look like it came off without a hitch. The forum storm will make the CV angst look like a sunny day.

 

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That's not the point really.

What we are looking at is losing people for fundamental mechanics changes after 3 years of play. Most of those people will never come back no matter what they do to the game.

Now we are fundamentally changing the battle itself by introducing an entirely new class of warfare. Predicting how THAT will turn out....

I can only say this. It's a fun game, that's why I play it and most others. But every time you make major changes to the fundamentals, you lose people. No matter how great you or I may think it is, People will stop playing. People will stop buying ships. It's that simple. It's always been the way and it always will be.

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5 minutes ago, Rocketpacman said:

It'll undoubtedly be a mess. But subs should honestly be much easier to balance than CVs. 

Yeah one hit they die, any sub that gets holed goes on a one way dive

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8 minutes ago, BrushWolf said:

Subs will make the CV rework look like it came off without a hitch. The forum storm will make the CV angst look like a sunny day.

 

I'm not sure why. The only thing WG needs to figure out and balance is the underwater element. How long subs can stay down and how to strike at and detect them when they are underwater. In terms of how they actually play they'll be no different from a stealthy DD. 

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4 minutes ago, Rocketpacman said:

I'm not sure why. The only thing WG needs to figure out and balance is the underwater element. How long subs can stay down and how to strike at and detect them when they are underwater. In terms of how they actually play they'll be no different from a stealthy DD. 

One word, speed. Even the fastest sub of the era of the game was slow.

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Just now, BrushWolf said:

One word, speed. Even the fastest sub of the era of the game was slow.

And? Tweaking ship speeds is not exactly a huge balance problem. 

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1 minute ago, Rocketpacman said:

And? Tweaking ship speeds is not exactly a huge balance problem. 

Subs are patient ambush predators which don't fit this game. Forcing their square peg into a round hole is CV's times ten.

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7 minutes ago, Rocketpacman said:

And? Tweaking ship speeds is not exactly a huge balance problem. 

I think he means that a sub traveling at 10kts or less won't have much impact in the fight. So either they do faster speeds or some other gimmick to force subs into the fight. Having them act like slow DDs will cause problems because of the vision mechanic.  If subs can't be spotted then they'll just slow the game down more because people won't push into an area where a sub can ambush. 

The best place for subs is their own game mode, but that's also the best place for CVs and we know how that has worked out.

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20 minutes ago, Nikolay_Kuznetsov_ said:

SUBS are WG's way to take attention away from the Fiasco known as CV rework.

Yup cause six months into it they still can't figure out that introducing world of warplanes into world of warships  was a bad idea . If I wanted to play wowp I'd download it and play that instead .

SMH. Lol.

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1 hour ago, Wepps said:

Subs versus convoys, that's fun. I'd love to play that game. But an entirely separate game, or at least sub servers. But if you intend to introduce these to the ongoing battle servers in existence now, I see nothing good coming from that for anybody involved.

People have been saying this since before players started whining about DDs and CVs; want to bet on how much the Devs have listened?

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1 hour ago, Wepps said:

First.

But seriously, we just had to do a complete rework of the fundamental mechanics of aircraft carriers, then told the players it's an ongoing process of balance after 3 years and 6 months of design and just learn to dodge AA, which is not really the problem. Explain how subs will affect the game play?

Subs versus convoys, that's fun. I'd love to play that game. But an entirely separate game, or at least sub servers. But if you intend to introduce these to the ongoing battle servers in existence now, I see nothing good coming from that for anybody involved.

 

 

The subs were actually not as bad as I thought they would be , when they did the Halloween battles with them last year. It was interesting mildly fun and it worked. However they are up against putting depth and ocean floor contours on the regular battle maps, ships actually drawing drafts to get stuck near islands, shalllows/shoals, ships sinking/wrecks in shallows,  asw weapons ,asw search (sonar),  underwater flight of shells and bombs, horrendous speed differences and Big G knows what else. I don think they can put all these things in regular random battle map setting.

And the in the end I think Subs are too slow for WOWs surface battles, and if they are just merely underwater, semi-mobile , torp launchers it will just encourage more pausity in play - camping, hiding, not moving forward.

Edited by Strachwitz666

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I dont think Submarines are going to go over well if and when introduced. Based on the Halloween event, I can see a lot of the same complaints about carriers being applied to subs. The biggest complaint will be that certain ships wont be able to much or any damage in return. Followed by the amount of spotting a surfaced sub would have while being undetected. 

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1 hour ago, BrushWolf said:

Subs are patient ambush predators which don't fit this game. Forcing their square peg into a round hole is CV's times ten.

I could see WG redoing the maps to facilitate subs into randoms. Or just giving them really dumb speed.

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1 hour ago, Wepps said:

First.

But seriously, we just had to do a complete rework of the fundamental mechanics of aircraft carriers, then told the players it's an ongoing process of balance after 3 years and 6 months of design and just learn to dodge AA, which is not really the problem. Explain how subs will affect the game play?

Subs versus convoys, that's fun. I'd love to play that game. But an entirely separate game, or at least sub servers. But if you intend to introduce these to the ongoing battle servers in existence now, I see nothing good coming from that for anybody involved.

 

 

U-boats will be awesome and it will be a lot of fun to watch DDs and BBs cry over more stuff again.

                              :CV:

:cap_rambo::cap_rambo::cap_rambo::cap_rambo:

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2 minutes ago, Krupp_Sabot said:

I could see WG redoing the maps to facilitate subs into randoms. Or just giving them really dumb speed.

Giving them really dumb speed is turning them into something completely different than a sub of the era but then most people don't want the kind of game play that doing them right would require. Also how will ships without ASW capabilities, which is most of the ships in the game, deal with a submerged sub. They just don't fit into surface combat. The attempts in WWI were complete failures unless you count how there possible presence in the are affected how the commanders acted. As WWII approached they were looked at more as scouts, the Gato's 21 knot speed was perfect for it to keep up with the fleet.

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If you shoot at a sub and it dives, do you get credit for sinking it? HE Spammers farm BBs for damage, can we farm subs for Krakens?

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We need subs to punish people how sit behind island and bbs.

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