Jump to content
Sign in to follow this  
You need to play a total of 5 battles to post in this section.
XurMP

Some ideas to make german BBs great again

8 comments in this topic

Recommended Posts

245
[TROLO]
Members
340 posts
7,262 battles

Never read this online anywhere else so apologise if it was previously proposed.

Let's get to the ideas:

1) Make them have Secondary Battery Modification 1 build in from default (like they already have IFHE on the guns and soon on all secondaries from T8 and above) so they can take the accuracy mod to mitigate a bit the horrible accuracy or the AA flak module to hopefully scratch some more damage against planes and getting 1 less citadel/fire per drop.

2) Make them have some sort of special accuracy module build in (if the US BB high Tier with 11% is too much, the 7% ones should do) so you can potentially can have a 18-14% better accuracy at the cost of secondary range if you go for it, or having the same secondaries as they have now but with a little bit better accuracy.

3) Make the torpedo protection better, the current one is completely worthless. Sure, most have hydro (not Tirpitz or anything under T8) and can see the torps much sooner but the absolutely horrible rudder, turning circle and speed (speed in only some like GK) is almost a sentence to eat 1 or 2 torps if they are decently aimed. Hydro give you an extra layer of protection against torps? Of course. Is it enough? Of course not. It "only" last 2 minutes and if you are catched off guard for any DD (maybe not Germans as their torp damage is pathetic for high tiers), you are almost 100% dead. Don't get me wrong, I love DDs and love torping BBs and torpedobeating even with CVs (always press F to recall and let the Initial D music do the job when a enemy CV try to torp mine) but it's just not right how easily you can delete massive portions of the HP of the "tankiest BBs", what makes it even worse is that Kremlin weakness was meant to be torps but in the last second got a insane 46% torp bulge and 60mm deck so even the """""counters""""" are not even checks.

Another thing why they should get a torpedo protection buff is because Bismarck (and to be assumed any larger BBs like the class H BBs or FDG/GK in game) had awesome torpedo and flooding protection (seriously look it up) and the only Achiles heel found against torpedo attacks was the rudder, we all know how that story ends... :Smile_hiding:

4) This one might be a bit controversial but how about giving them 18 (or 16) km secondaries that work like russian BB accuracy? At 18 (or 16) km distance they can maybe hit 5 out of 100 shells in average (5% accuracy), at 12 km they hit 40 out of 100 (40% accuracy), and under 8 km they land almost every single shoot, not all but pretty close (over 90%). This may not be a huge change as in far ranges they wouldn't hit much but could actually scare a bit the enemy with the usual "wth is shooting me" and hopefully help a bit with some slightly better damage and some odd fire set (also could be nasty in a smoke not firing the MGs, just letting the secondaries go wild). Maybe that extra range would only work with the 150mm and not the 128mm to balance it out a bit, does not make much sense that CL guns are limited to DD range guns.

5) Make the secondaries able to fire from both sides when you train Manual Fire Control on them, so the target you choose gets shoot with the boosted accuracy while everyone else in range gets shoot with the regular secondary accuracy. This could also affect all BBs in game to make secondary builds more viable across all Tiers and Nations.

6) Give the guns better firing angles. One of the most awful things with the german BBs is that you have to show a lot of broadside to use the back guns, forcing you to shoot only 4 guns in most cases (only GK can use 6). For example, this is not a problem for Georgia and her amazing accuracy but with the drunk gunners those 4 shells will rarely land where you aimed and if they do, most times they just bounce or overpen. I know it's unrelated but in WoT Blitz also a T10 very big german sausage was being powercreeped (JagdPanzer E100) and they just added 4 degrees to the firing angles, almost all problems solved. Again, it's unrelated but very small changes like that can make a underpower ship (tank in that case) perform perfectly fine with it's competition. Allow all german BBs to fire the back guns while still angled cof cof Russian BBs cof cof and that should improve the survivability and damage output with a simple easy change.

7) Another change for all BBs in general: make the burn/flood damage also saturate. Let me explain it a bit better: you get set on fire in the bow 1 time, it does 100% of the burn damage. Second fire in that area? 80% of the full burn damage. Third fire? 60%. You get it by now, reduce the fire damage by 20% every time you get set on fire on the same area (or another value if 20% is not balanced) with the absolute minimum of 10% when the part already burned for 5 times so fires always so damage but less and less every time. Maybe something similar to the superestructure. If you have a mod that indicate what parts are damaged (literally turn them red or any color you want) you can see that a fully saturated super gets all it's HP back WITH A SINGLE HEAL, making extremely easy to farm over and over again the superestructure of any BB.

 

Just a few things before ending: I don't own most german BBs, up to Gneisenau on the tech tree, with Tirpitz and Scharnhorst as prems but every single time there is a PTS I go only and only with the GK for all my regular matches (not the test events like torpedobeats), so I'm not any expert but can assure at least I know what I'm talking about. Also all this changes are just proposals to add individually, not all together as all would make them OP to be honest, but maybe 1 or 2 from the list could make them at least viable (they are and probably always will be fun).

That's all, hope you all have a wonderful day  :cap_like:

 

  • Cool 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
271
[JMMAF]
Members
315 posts
5,573 battles

I agree with some of what you said. With the advent of the Russian BBs the Germans have been completely marginalized.  The Secondaries are more of a gimmick than a defining trait for the German BB line.  The only real thing they have is turtleback.

 

I think the german secondaries should be longer range by default and you shouldn't have to buy IFHE to make them effective.

 

The dispersion should also be looked at again. Germans had a reputation for precision machinery and yet the guns they make have the worst accuracy?

  • Cool 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
245
[TROLO]
Members
340 posts
7,262 battles
48 minutes ago, megahugenoob said:

The dispersion should also be looked at again. Germans had a reputation for precision machinery and yet the guns they make have the worst accuracy?

WG: "b...but machine without crew cannot work and we all know Germans love beer so they are drunk and can't aim"

Still waiting from them to post that, we all know that's the only "reason" why German BB guns are so insanely inaccurate.

  • Cool 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
665
[BLKRS]
Alpha Tester
798 posts
2,722 battles

I would rather the manual firing control work like the sectors for AA. You "buff" which side of the ships secondaries you want to gain power, and you can select a target. The other side will shoot at whatever it can hit as it wants, but with lower damage output.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
665
[BLKRS]
Alpha Tester
798 posts
2,722 battles

German BB's are my favorite, but they are also most noticeably the weakest.

 

My also proposed changes are close to what you are saying.

 

1) A slight accuracy buff to the guns so anything within 10km range more than 1 shell will hit on average.. (I'm not joking, even out of the 8 potential shells like.. 1 or 2 will hit and usually at odd angles causing at least 1 of them to bounce.. at 10km.. I can't tell you how many times I've whiffed multiple salvos at a cruiser within 8km and my shells decide to go face plant or shoot high)

 

2) Buff the secondaries in multiple ways depending on how the main battery was buffed.. If you insist on keeping the abysmal accuracy, they need buffs all around. Make it a real decision whether or not any ship wants to get within 8km of you, especially destroyers. Secondaries should shred destroyers apart if the guns are going to be so abysmal even at close range.

If the guns get a slight buff, fix the firing arcs, and buff the over all accuracy of them.

 

3) Either fix the torpedo protection, or buff the rudder so they can properly brawl, and engage and do what they were supposed to do.

 

4) Slight buff to their repair party (Again, they are supposed to get up close. They are spotted 5 maps away, and can EASILY be burned down well before they get into any meaningful engagement ranges, most of the game is played at medium to long ranges, so you're sitting useless half the game unless you get some lucky RNG shots in.)

 

5) remove the stupid penalty to its special tier X upgrade reducing the guns maximum range. Installing this only ensures that your more useless than you already are, installing it means it will take even longer for you to get into proper engagement ranges, where other tier X cruisers, and hell even some destroyers I believe will have farther engagement ranges than you for the main battery. All for what? a slight reload speed of about 1 second, and buff your secondaries you may or may not even be able to use effectively? You also are forced to then ditch the fighter plane for a spotter plane to make up for the loss of distance on your main guns for the first half of the game... It's ridiculous..

 

--------------------

 

 

  • Cool 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Members
3,637 posts
3,938 battles

What if the spotter plane was replace with a version that increased secondary range and accuracy for it's duration instead? 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
27
[-SOR-]
[-SOR-]
Members
74 posts
4,598 battles

I find the German BBs are pretty formidable so long as the captain isn't overly reliant on their turtleback or just YOLO out the gate without any support. Between great plating, strong turtlebacks, strong secondaries, efficient close-mid range gunnery, good top speeds, awesome hydro, and good long range AA auras they have a lot if good tools and utility, and are very effective against DDs and CLs compared to most other BBs... they only suffer due to meta play that focuses on BB camping vs. aggressive pushes.  But with the right team comp and support they are very strong.

I think the only things I'd consider touching are:

1) Improve the overall AA perfornance somewhat. Long-range AA guns are pretty good but overall the German BBs are obvious targets for CVs.

2) Improve stealth somewhat to better facilitate bringing a German BB into range where it's main battery performs efficiently. 

Secondaries are fine as is. They are rough on thinner skinned ships like DDs and CLs but overall no ship secondaries are as effective at high tiers due to heavier plating for BBs and CAs, and the German BBs benefit most of all. (Besides, Harugamo and Kitakaze are already bad enough!)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2,446
[WORX]
Members
5,037 posts
15,593 battles
  1. AA over haul coming on 0.8.5
  2. No BB should have lower stealth then a cruiser in the tier.
  3. Mindless Secondaries build will be buffed (I dont think ships playing against are going to like it either).

Brawler BBs are fine... Balance game play on the other hand... Questionable...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Sign in to follow this  

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.

×