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CaliburxZero

So now that Kremlin is out, what is GK's Purpose?

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Let me start the preface of this thread:  I do not believe GK is a bad ship, or even a unfun ship.  HOWEVER, I do believe the GK is no longer even optimal at what it does best with now its strengths only becoming edge-case useful in today's balance.  While I progressively got worse myself in it statistically it was ultimately an uncomfortable ship that I slowly found myself disliking more and more in order to make her strengths work:  Pathetic Mobility, Poor TDS, EXTREMELY bad Firing angles for its main battery, the legendary lackluster accuracy... it all adds up to an experience I just wanted to say "To hell with that!" when I got my hands on Kremlin as a comparison.

So, the question I have for not only WG and any who sees this, but for the community and skilled players of these forums:  What is GK's purpose with the advent of Kremlin?

In my opinion, the ship can be broken down into 3 specific use cases that you'd want to take it for:

-  Meme secondaries

-  Pushing into smoked up DDs with Hydro to trade HP for running them over, along with first reason

-  Broadside Jousting for superior trades with turtleback

Is there anything else I'm missing here?  I sorta feel like GK is the victim of powercreep, in a more direct way than most ships get to see.  In my opinion, GK should receive the following buffs:

-  60mm main deck

-  Better Firing angles of its Main battery

-  Improved Secondary HE penetration

- More TDS, OR better Turning circle/rudder

After the horrors that is ranked, also noticing GK is also citadelled at odd angles at random too which is something I have been scratching my head about.  

So what does everyone think?  And for those who do feel GK is fine, please answer why I would want to take GK over Kremlin?  I'm very curious to see what people have to say to that who do believe the ship isn't completely powercreeped.

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The GK's purpose is to serve as food for the mighty KREMLIN, HE spamming DDs and Cruisers, as well as for AP slinging CV dive bombers!

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4 minutes ago, ObnoxiousPotato said:

The GK's purpose is to serve as food for the mighty KREMLIN, HE spamming DDs and Cruisers, as well as for AP slinging CV dive bombers!

Well, its 50mm deck *does* protect it against HE spamming outside of HIV for the cruisers.  Which well... given how meta HIV is right now, doesn't mean a whole lot.  And under that logic, if GK has to get even CLOSER than Kremlin to be effective as Kremlin is really a Medium-Close range ship, not an outright brawler like the GK this alone should justify a deck thickness buff.

as for the CVs... nothing is safe from Haku's AP DBs, you just gotta dOdGE

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1 hour ago, CaliburxZero said:

What is GK's purpose with the advent of Kremlin?

Something needs to have braindead-style gameplay. None of the normal BB punishments generally apply to the GK thanks to its armour scheme, super-sonar, secondaries, and fast firing, high velocity guns. Fires and concentrated bombardments are all they really have to directly fear. Kreml is brutal, but it is softer than most cruisers thanks to it's [edited] huge citadel.

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My old GK? Port Queen (joins Yue Yang and a few others), as WG intended.

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GK's purpose is to play it, I don't have Kremlin, and won't for a year or so.

 

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Yamato is far more tanky and sits further back with better guns, Montana is just a all rounder that GK has nothing against, Cong is arguably a better tank than GK (especially post-heal buff), Republique chews on GKs turtleneck, and Krenlin is almost straight up a better brawler.

 

So yeah, she needs some help 

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2 hours ago, CaliburxZero said:

Let me start the preface of this thread:  I do not believe GK is a bad ship, or even a unfun ship.  HOWEVER, I do believe the GK is no longer even optimal at what it does best with now its strengths only becoming edge-case useful in today's balance.  While I progressively got worse myself in it statistically it was ultimately an uncomfortable ship that I slowly found myself disliking more and more in order to make her strengths work:  Pathetic Mobility, Poor TDS, EXTREMELY bad Firing angles for its main battery, the legendary lackluster accuracy... it all adds up to an experience I just wanted to say "To hell with that!" when I got my hands on Kremlin as a comparison.

So, the question I have for not only WG and any who sees this, but for the community and skilled players of these forums:  What is GK's purpose with the advent of Kremlin?

In my opinion, the ship can be broken down into 3 specific use cases that you'd want to take it for:

-  Meme secondaries

-  Pushing into smoked up DDs with Hydro to trade HP for running them over, along with first reason

-  Broadside Jousting for superior trades with turtleback

Is there anything else I'm missing here?  I sorta feel like GK is the victim of powercreep, in a more direct way than most ships get to see.  In my opinion, GK should receive the following buffs:

-  60mm main deck

-  Better Firing angles of its Main battery

-  Improved Secondary HE penetration

- More TDS, OR better Turning circle/rudder

After the horrors that is ranked, also noticing GK is also citadelled at odd angles at random too which is something I have been scratching my head about.  

So what does everyone think?  And for those who do feel GK is fine, please answer why I would want to take GK over Kremlin?  I'm very curious to see what people have to say to that who do believe the ship isn't completely powercreeped.

If it is not a bad ship and not unfun, why would they need to buff it? For the record, I agree it isn't a bad ship. I don't even think it is weak. It just requires a particular playstyle to be optimal, but there are quite a few ships like that. It simply isn't a great ship for the meta in T10 ranked. Truthfully it probably at its worst in ranked because of the tendency to snipe at longer ranges.  It works much better in randoms and especially co-op where you have a far greater chance that something will close the range on you and you will have enemies on all sides. 

As for the citadeling, that has always happened occasionally. It's usually a slow USN BB shell the goes over the turtleback at mid to long ranges. It doesn't happen often but it can happen to all the KM BBs on occasion. 

Edited by Tzarevitch

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You know those quarter HE pen mechanics for all things german? Lets buff it to half HE pen mechanic

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GK is a better ship in terms of survivability compared to Kremlin. Yes Kremlin can bow tank for days but and mistakes in angling and her citadel will be blown out. GK only takes citadel hits through her deck. In that sense GK still has her place as being a front line damage sponge/fire starter. If Kremlin could take punishment from all directions like GK can then she would replace her. Until then GK isn't going anywhere.

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I think that WG should go the route they went with USN BBs, and give German BBs their own special module. USN BBs have their -11% dispersion module, which they can also conveniently equip while not neglecting their AA defenses (unless you want that 3m module, which barely anyone does).

So how about a Module for German BBs only that improves Secondary range by 20%, accuracy by 30% and reduces the reload by 10% and that goes into the 3m slot?

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42 minutes ago, enderland07 said:

IFHE secondary builds.

The best build.

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Once players start to realize that shooting HE at a Kremilin when ever it's spotted is a great way to kill it. They start to learn. I mean hell. Even when using CV Fighters if I see a Russian BB I just go after it with rockets. They have to eat a fire or waste a valuable damage control right off the bat. or use a repair party. /shrug/ 

It also doesn't help the kremlin that it's slow and inaccurate unless you're at close range. so stay your distance and apply HE until you get fires. then focus something else.

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5 minutes ago, SireneRacker said:

I think that WG should go the route they went with USN BBs, and give German BBs their own special module. USN BBs have their -11% dispersion module, which they can also conveniently equip while not neglecting their AA defenses (unless you want that 3m module, which barely anyone does).

So how about a Module for German BBs only that improves Secondary range by 20%, accuracy by 30% and reduces the reload by 10% and that goes into the 3m slot?

I would love this, to have an 13km secondary range on my GK

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3 minutes ago, SireneRacker said:

I think that WG should go the route they went with USN BBs, and give German BBs their own special module. USN BBs have their -11% dispersion module, which they can also conveniently equip while not neglecting their AA defenses (unless you want that 3m module, which barely anyone does).

So how about a Module for German BBs only that improves Secondary range by 20%, accuracy by 30% and reduces the reload by 10% and that goes into the 3m slot?

 

Pretty close to that: https://wiki.wargaming.net/en/Ship:Upgrades#Enhanced_Main_Armaments

1 minute ago, Cpt_Cupcake said:

The best build.

I don't really see a reason to play GK if you aren't running a meme secondary build. So many better battleships otherwise.

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6 minutes ago, enderland07 said:

I didn‘t really take that into consideration, but the general idea behind it is the same, although main battery would remain unaffected.

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The GK is a very fun ship, and is a great addition to a team, and it's as a team player that the ships excels - with it's ability to tank damage, bully caps/destroyers/bow tankers with it's hydro and secondaries, that's where it shines.  When your team needs to push - the GK is the best ship to lead that charge.

I routinely play the GK in Clan Battles and I've Ranked out twice using it.  The ship is still relevant.

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Kremlin suffers from not having hydro (which is probably why the maneuverability has to be a little better than GK) and having limited DCP charges. Say what you will about GK eating damage, but it's typically one of the hardest ships to kill when played correctly and allowed to shine.

GK (and a fair number of German ships) suffers from power creep. It is still powerful in it's own right, but recent additions of new ships have shifted the balance away from the GK's favor, with the popular picks being firmly in the court of newer ships. Once people learn how to effectively start killing Kremlin, and it receives a few small balance changes to bring it more in line with the legacy T10s, GK will still have its own place in T10 randoms meta. It's up to you whether you stick with it or not.

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GK doesn't get deleted like a Kremlin can.

 

 

German Battleships are very forgiving in surface ship combat.  You can be sloppy and pay the price with some Pens and Overpens against you, but Citadels against you are harder to come by.  A lot of other BBs would pay dearly for the same mistake.

Edited by HazeGrayUnderway
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GK is for getting 300 secondary hits per game playing co-op in those occasional 'get 1,000 secondary hits ribbons' missions.

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So far, in my experience, the GKs job is to blast massive hunk of HP off of Kremlins whenever the Kremlins show even a bit of their broadside. 

The Kremlin looks like a grossly overhyped memebote at this point.

 

 

Edited by KilljoyCutter

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I can supply plenty of bad ideas to WG, but I think one fair way to tackle the power creep problem is a new event about an old line every year or so. They can do it like with the Yamato. Buff the line, sell related things in the Premium Shop.

In this way WG makes money, while revitalizing an old line which has become obsolete due power creep.

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The GK is better against entrenched enemies - it can joust more effectively, the secondaries do more pressure damage and it has more raw DPM. 

The Kremlin is best at exploiting close range mistakes in angling (think Yamato cheeks, peeking CAs, broadside Montana), so it does more damage against poor players compared to the GK in the same position. 

The only thing I wish to see is the GK having the same firing angles as the Bismarck - 35 degrees all around, as opposed to 45 to the front and 35 to the rear. 

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