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derzwerge

Sick of playing lowered tier.

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Is there anything WG staffs will do to fix the matching? Why are they selling tier 8 premium ships if you only gonna play tier 10 battles? 

Edited by lochlan_
insulting WG staffs
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Last anyone did a 100 game survey, (Lert, IIRC), that person learned that in his survey tier 8's were in tier 10 battles "only" 45% of the time.  Not quite the always being bottom tier.

Also, WG could do something that would help without even touching MM.  Just have some missions on occasion where the tier range is like tiers 5 through 8, rather than 5 through 10.  And all of the sudden, you'll see a flood of tier 8's into the queue and a lot more top tier battles for them.  An event mission with just this tier limitation was run about a month ago, and it saw exactly this result.  People wanting to work the mission were playing their tier 8's and it was almost a weekend full of tier 8 top tier battles.

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3 minutes ago, Crucis said:

Last anyone did a 100 game survey, (Lert, IIRC), that person learned that in his survey tier 8's were in tier 10 battles "only" 45% of the time.  Not quite the always being bottom tier.

Also, WG could do something that would help without even touching MM.  Just have some missions on occasion where the tier range is like tiers 5 through 8, rather than 5 through 10.  And all of the sudden, you'll see a flood of tier 8's into the queue and a lot more top tier battles for them.  An event mission with just this tier limitation was run about a month ago, and it saw exactly this result.  People wanting to work the mission were playing their tier 8's and it was almost a weekend full of tier 8 top tier battles.

Lert did do that, but it was a good while back, so the population may have changed since then.

However, most T8 BBs are fully capable of handling T10. Cruisers are another thing, and CVs, yeah, well those have bigger issues. Also, there's a mission right now for T5 to 7 IIRC, so that may actually be helping. Still, it's impossible to make claims on things like this without a lot of data, which WG doesn't release.

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7 minutes ago, AJTP89 said:

Lert did do that, but it was a good while back, so the population may have changed since then.

However, most T8 BBs are fully capable of handling T10. Cruisers are another thing, and CVs, yeah, well those have bigger issues. Also, there's a mission right now for T5 to 7 IIRC, so that may actually be helping. Still, it's impossible to make claims on things like this without a lot of data, which WG doesn't release.

yeah, you go with tirpitz, Ill go with montana, (dont have Kremlin to play "god") and lets see how capable you are to handle a tierx BB. Whenever i have time ill invite you to a training fight... 

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2 minutes ago, derzwerge said:

yeah, you go with tirpitz, Ill go with montana, (dont have Kremlin to play "god") and lets see how capable you are to handle a tierx BB. Whenever i have time ill invite you to a training fight... 

Angle up, chip away with the main battery, let the secondaries work you over, and if you're dumb enough to get within 6km I have torps. I hate fighting Tirpitzs and Bismarks in my Montana. If they broadside then it's easy, but played well they're real PIA.

And they're probably the worst BBs to uptier in. NC and Amagi are great, and the Richy isn't bad. Don't know anything about the Vlad. Yeah, you're at a bit of a disadvantage, but it's not like you should just give up.

Ironically though, I got in a brawl with a Tirpitz in my Montana a while back, and comprehensively paddled him. That was because I just outplayed him though. He aimed the torps badly, so I could easily dodge them, showed way too much broadside while launching, enabling me to chunk him good, and when he tried to run he was low enough for me to finish. However, if he had charged angled, then I would have been in trouble.

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7 minutes ago, derzwerge said:

yeah, you go with tirpitz, Ill go with montana, (dont have Kremlin to play "god") and lets see how capable you are to handle a tierx BB. Whenever i have time ill invite you to a training fight... 

You don't get it.  It's not about you in a tier 8 BB having an even chance against a tier 10 BB.  The point is that tier 8 ships are not useless against tier 10 ships.  And if you feel otherwise, it's operator error, not the ships.

Hell, there's a video on YouTube where a guy in a North Carolina took on 2 Yamatos and beat them BOTH.  What he did was yolo charge at the first yammy like he intended to ram.  The Yammy turned to try to evade the ram and exposed his broadside at point blank range, and the NC nail him with something like 4-5 citadels and blew him out of the water.  Then he did the exact same thing to another Yammy a couple minutes later.  It's all about understanding your ship's strengths.  Also, you have to understand that as a bottom tier BB, it's not your job to be 1v1 dueling top tier BBs.  It's your job to SUPPORT your top tier BBs, take good shots of opportunity, try to crush any cruiser of any tier that gives you a broadside, and so on.

The very fact that you talk about 1v1-ing a tier 8 against a tier 10 tells me that you don't really understand how to effectively play as a bottom tier ship.

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5 minutes ago, AJTP89 said:

Angle up, chip away with the main battery, let the secondaries work you over, and if you're dumb enough to get within 6km I have torps. I hate fighting Tirpitzs and Bismarks in my Montana. If they broadside then it's easy, but played well they're real PIA.

And they're probably the worst BBs to uptier in. NC and Amagi are great, and the Richy isn't bad. Don't know anything about the Vlad. Yeah, you're at a bit of a disadvantage, but it's not like you should just give up.

Ironically though, I got in a brawl with a Tirpitz in my Montana a while back, and comprehensively paddled him. That was because I just outplayed him though. He aimed the torps badly, so I could easily dodge them, showed way too much broadside while launching, enabling me to chunk him good, and when he tried to run he was low enough for me to finish. However, if he had charged angled, then I would have been in trouble.

AJTP, the Vladdy is a beast that can hold its own in tier 10 battles.  You just have to learn its best engagement range and always try to work that range, which is roughly around 10 to 13 km, I think.  And bow tank the hell out of the enemy.  You still have to respect that you should be supporting the higher tier BBs, but when the Vladdy is top tier, it's a freakin' beast.  And the Lenin, the tier 8 prem Soviet BB, is also a beast.  It's like playing a Nelson but with Russian armor and Russian main gun accuracy at shorter ranges.

 

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3 minutes ago, Crucis said:

AJTP, the Vladdy is a beast that can hold its own in tier 10 battles.  You just have to learn its best engagement range and always try to work that range, which is roughly around 10 to 13 km, I think.  And bow tank the hell out of the enemy.  You still have to respect that you should be supporting the higher tier BBs, but when the Vladdy is top tier, it's a freakin' beast.  And the Lenin, the tier 8 prem Soviet BB, is also a beast.  It's like playing a Nelson but with Russian armor and Russian main gun accuracy at shorter ranges.

 

Yeah, I learned that the hard way earlier in my DM. Was trying to get away with something stupid in front of a Vlad, and as soon as I saw the dispersion out of his guns I knew I was history.

And yeah, the Nelski, basically the Nelson but better. The one I really think needs some kind of nerf is the Sinop though. Playing against it, and playing her on PTS, that thing is a beast.

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I hear a lot of complaints about playing tier 8's in tier 10 matches.

I propose you look at it as a 'right of passage" an "initiation". Maybe look at it as world of warships own line crossing ceremony ",  Shellbacks, Trusty Shellbacks, Honorable Shellbacks, or Sons Of Neptune.

I know I know, most the time it feels more like "sump on the rump".

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56 minutes ago, Crucis said:

Last anyone did a 100 game survey, (Lert, IIRC), that person learned that in his survey tier 8's were in tier 10 battles "only" 45% of the time.  Not quite the always being bottom tier.

Also, WG could do something that would help without even touching MM.  Just have some missions on occasion where the tier range is like tiers 5 through 8, rather than 5 through 10.  And all of the sudden, you'll see a flood of tier 8's into the queue and a lot more top tier battles for them.  An event mission with just this tier limitation was run about a month ago, and it saw exactly this result.  People wanting to work the mission were playing their tier 8's and it was almost a weekend full of tier 8 top tier battles.

 The problem with T8 MM is T8 players find themselves facing 8 or more T10 ships most of the time. When driving a T6 or T7 I do find myself bottomed tiered but very rarely do I find I'm one of the 2 or 3 bottom tier ships in the match while a T8 player may find that he is the only T8 ship among 11 T10  ships in the match.

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Play T10 then? That's what it's for right?

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1 hour ago, Crucis said:

tier 8's were in tier 10 battles "only" 45% of the time.

Only 45% that's pretty funny mind you I don't care I play tier 8 all time I'm used to being up tiered but only 45% like that is good ? .  I really think that most people didn't buy there tier 8 premium BB or play there tech tree BB to support tier 10 BBs and to have to play a careful game and just pick targets of opportunity every time . You want to get in there and fight but because they don't have the armor the hit points or the fire power of tier 10 BBs its tough . You have ships that were built to play a specific way Bismarck , Tirpitz and the Massachusetts and 45% of the time you cant play them that way you have to play a tier 10 game it can get boring sometimes . So I can understand some peoples frustration . I'm getting much better at being up tiered and I kind of like now but its not as easy you make it sound . Of course you have 20,000 games under your belt and are probable a great player I'm a below average player .

Edited by clammboy

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2 hours ago, derzwerge said:

Is there anything WG useless nerds will do to fix the matching? Why are they selling tier 8 premium ships if you only gonna play tier 10 battles? 

You don't play in only T10 battles. I ran Akizuki last week 42 matches in a row in a single day and only saw T10 ships very rarely.  I was top tier most of the time.

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3 minutes ago, Vaffu said:

You don't play in only T10 battles. I ran Akizuki last week 42 matches in a row in a single day and only saw T10 ships very rarely.  I was top tier most of the time.

You got lucky then I think . Do you think it matters when you are running every flag have the all mods upgraded do you think that ends up hurting you by them up tiering you more ? I read that some where but sounds like hogwash . 

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Just now, clammboy said:

You got lucky then I think . Do you think it matters when you are running every flag have the all mods upgraded do you think that ends up hurting you by them up tiering you more ? I read that some where but sounds like hogwash . 

I ran flags had all the mods and a 19 point Captain so I will have to say that it is hogwash and literally out of all those matches I saw maybe 10 with T10 in them if that. 

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If your precious little Tier VIII boat can prey on Tier VI ships, you should be fair game to be in Tier X games also.

 

Massachusetts, Bismarck, Tirpitz, North Carolina, Alabama, Amagi, etc. vs a Tier VI BB like New Mexico, Arizona?

 

Asashio attacking Tier VI BBs?

 

Akizuki, Benson, Lightning, Lo Yang, Kidd vs those awful Tier VI Destroyers?

 

Tier VIII CV vs Tier VI AA?

 

27mm bow Tier VIII US & German CAs against Tier VI BBs?

 

Yeah, sorry, as long as this can happen, Tier VIII ships also belong in Tier X games.

SYMPATHY

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7 hours ago, Crucis said:

Last anyone did a 100 game survey, (Lert, IIRC), that person learned that in his survey tier 8's were in tier 10 battles "only" 45% of the time.  Not quite the always being bottom tier.

Also, WG could do something that would help without even touching MM.  Just have some missions on occasion where the tier range is like tiers 5 through 8, rather than 5 through 10.  And all of the sudden, you'll see a flood of tier 8's into the queue and a lot more top tier battles for them.  An event mission with just this tier limitation was run about a month ago, and it saw exactly this result.  People wanting to work the mission were playing their tier 8's and it was almost a weekend full of tier 8 top tier battles.

 

5 hours ago, Vaffu said:

You don't play in only T10 battles. I ran Akizuki last week 42 matches in a row in a single day and only saw T10 ships very rarely.  I was top tier most of the time.

I think, the  more one play on a certain tier {8} in a row, the chances are better to get "less" uptiering . The problem is, if one only plays 2-3 battles in a tier per day,, that ship can be very vell 2-3 times uptiered..... Happens a lot to me with tier 8 ships. 

Edited by VonSmallHausenn

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7 hours ago, Crucis said:

Also, WG could do something that would help without even touching MM.  Just have some missions on occasion where the tier range is like tiers 5 through 8, rather than 5 through 10.  And all of the sudden, you'll see a flood of tier 8's into the queue and a lot more top tier battles for them.  An event mission with just this tier limitation was run about a month ago, and it saw exactly this result.  People wanting to work the mission were playing their tier 8's and it was almost a weekend full of tier 8 top tier battles.

Agreed, this is a good idea. We need more of this.

Furthermore, besides bringing the mid-tier fleets out of mothballs, it is a way to encourage relative newcomers to gain some much needed experience instead of mad-dashing to Tier 10 and being overwhelmed.

The race to Tier 10 is the inverse of arguing with idiots: It tends to drag new players UP to that level to be beaten by experience.

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8 hours ago, derzwerge said:

Why are they selling tier 8 premium ships if you only gonna play tier 10 battles? 

That's why they are starting to sell T9 and almost certainty soon, T10 ships.

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Lert's study was not scientific. The only way to do this is to use the same ship without logging off. He used numerous ships and log off's to get to his 100 total.

I have done my own studies using the same ship without logging off for 10 games multiple times at tier 8. The results were normally 40% bottom tier, 30 mid and 30 top tier.... .

 

You have about a 70% to be uptiered at tier 8 with tier 9's and higher being much stronger ships.

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7 hours ago, derzwerge said:

yeah, you go with tirpitz, Ill go with montana, (dont have Kremlin to play "god") and lets see how capable you are to handle a tierx BB. Whenever i have time ill invite you to a training fight... 

If that's the mindset you have when playing a T8 in a T10 battle, yep, you're screwed.

Why would you enter a straight-up fair fight with a 2-tier higher ship?

Tell you what, you enter a training room in Montana, I'll bring a Bismarck, and another player can bring a Kagero.

Or the other player can bring a T10 BB, and while you're fighting him, I'll come up on your other side.

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4 minutes ago, Sweetsie said:

Lert's study was not scientific. The only way to do this is to use the same ship without logging off. He used numerous ships and log off's to get to his 100 total.

I have done my own studies using the same ship without logging off for 10 games multiple times at tier 8. The results were normally 40% bottom tier, 30 mid and 30 top tier.... .

For Lert's test not being scientific, the results were close. He says 45% bottom tier, you say 40%.

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8 hours ago, Crucis said:

Just have some missions on occasion where the tier range is like tiers 5 through 8, rather than 5 through 10. 

There have been quite a few of those recently; the recent Philippine Island event for US and IJN was open to Tiers 4 through 7.

32 minutes ago, So_lt_Goes said:

The race to Tier 10 is the inverse of arguing with idiots: It tends to drag new players UP to that level to be beaten by experience.

The race to T10 is the product of a delusion in some players' minds that top tier is the only worthwhile tier.

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5 minutes ago, Skpstr said:

For Lert's test not being scientific, the results were close. He says 45% bottom tier, you say 40%.

Mine isn't either, just stating the closest way one could actually test it. There is no way I could play 100 games in the same ship in a row. 

I agree with the OP. Tier 8 premiums are increasing losing any luster especially with the addition of tier 9 and higher premium ships. Concerning +/- 2 MM I have also argued how bad it is for any level. It is very conceivable that I could kill a tier 6 BB without ever shooting him with my main guns with the Mass or Biz or Derpits. 

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1 minute ago, Sweetsie said:

It is very conceivable that I could kill a tier 6 BB without ever shooting him with my main guns with the Mass or Biz or Derpits. 

Of course it is. I've done it to a Bismarck with Bayern. (of course, he had MFCS and was brawling with another BB lol)

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