Jump to content
You need to play a total of 5 battles to post in this section.
CaptainTeddybear

Yamato vs Kremlin

32 comments in this topic

Recommended Posts

1,187
[EGO]
Members
3,683 posts

Yamato 18" guns 74 seconds to rotate. Kremlin 18" guns 34 seconds to rotate.

Does that seem right to you?

Could we get these numbers a little closer together?

Georgia 18" guns are 45 seconds to rotate.

Kremlin 40 seconds and Yamato 50 seconds is more reasonable imo.

  • Boring 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4,877
[HINON]
Members
11,212 posts

They are 2 different playstyles and the turret turn times reflect this.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
63
[PLPT]
Members
210 posts
9,931 battles

Yamato guns are not the same as Kremlin guns. Those few extra millimeters make all the difference.

Edited by Zairinzan

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
331
[VETSN]
Members
652 posts
5,497 battles
42 minutes ago, CaptainTeddybear said:

Yamato 18" guns 74 seconds to rotate. Kremlin 18" guns 34 seconds to rotate.

Does that seem right to you?

Could we get these numbers a little closer together?

Georgia 18" guns are 45 seconds to rotate.

Kremlin 40 seconds and Yamato 50 seconds is more reasonable imo.

Kremlin is strong, but not dev strike you at 25km strong.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
275
[RC_MP]
[RC_MP]
Members
500 posts
15,112 battles

You new to Wargaming games or something?

I0BmA1I.gif

Joke aside, you don't balance a game based on differences between 2 units. You have to account for how they fulfill their roles in a match. Kremlin is a mid-range specialist with heavy armor. The fast traverse is meant to compensate for the ship's massive size and awful handling. Yamato is a long-range BB killer that sacrifices gun handling for god-tier long-range accuracy and penetration. Yamato doesn't put herself in "no-mans-land" (the sea, in this case) and doesn't need to shift her sights much. The slow traverse also emphasizes Yamato's weakness against fighting multiple ships at once and close-range combat.

  • Cool 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Members
2,179 posts
78 battles
44 minutes ago, CaptainTeddybear said:

Yamato 18" guns 74 seconds to rotate. Kremlin 18" guns 34 seconds to rotate.

Does that seem right to you?

Could we get these numbers a little closer together?

Georgia 18" guns are 45 seconds to rotate.

Kremlin 40 seconds and Yamato 50 seconds is more reasonable imo.

Kremlin guns are turned by the hands of Stalin himself that's why it turns fast

  • Funny 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
709
[90TH]
Members
1,711 posts
10,757 battles

Cmon. We all know if the Soviet battleships had been made the canons would have turned that quickly. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
550
[-GPS-]
Members
2,820 posts
30,257 battles
3 minutes ago, Pytheas said:

Cmon. We all know if the Soviet battleships had been made the canons would have turned that quickly. 

At least the first 3 times ... then they wouldn’t turn at all 

  • Cool 1
  • Funny 5

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
201
[-K-]
Alpha Tester
453 posts
11,358 battles
1 hour ago, CaptainTeddybear said:

Yamato 18" guns 74 seconds to rotate. Kremlin 18" guns 34 seconds to rotate.

Does that seem right to you?

Could we get these numbers a little closer together?

Georgia 18" guns are 45 seconds to rotate.

Kremlin 40 seconds and Yamato 50 seconds is more reasonable imo.

If that's the way you want to play it, we should probably make sure that all the 457mms in the game overmatch 32mm armor. You know, for fairness. Or you could realize that turret rotation speed is one of the few balancing mechanics that Wargaming uses without really caring about historical accuracy; you can't just point to one number and say "this isn't fair" without also examining the context that number resides in.

(Note: overmatch is a [edited] mechanic and we should definitely not be expanding it in any form or fashion.)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
84
[PVE]
Beta Testers
322 posts
4,071 battles

yamato_wave_motion_gun.jpg

 

THE RUSSIAN ARE JUST SCARED TO GIVE US THE TRUE CANNON OF THE YAMATO... THEY FEAR THE REPEAT OF THE BUTT KICKING FROM BATTLE OF TSUSHIMA

  • Funny 2
  • Boring 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
777
[SKDSH]
[SKDSH]
Beta Testers, In AlfaTesters
4,183 posts
11,571 battles
1 hour ago, CaptainTeddybear said:

Kremlin 18" guns 34 seconds to rotate.

 28.9 seconds on mine .     :cap_haloween:  lol

                :Smile_honoring:

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
76
[SKDSH]
Members
214 posts
7,410 battles
2 minutes ago, Chien_Lu_Anderman said:

 28.9 seconds on mine .     :cap_haloween:  lol

                :Smile_honoring:

 

same.

  • Funny 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Beta Testers
12 posts
3,129 battles

The difference is the Yamato is probably somewhere between 16-22km from the target. The Kremlin is meant to be a 8-14k(ish) bow tanker. Of course the one big thing the Yammy will always have is that extra 3mm on her guns over all other 18" BBs that give her the 32mm Bow pen that only Her and her sister Musashi can achieve. For that reason, Honestly the Yamato is probably still in a good place as she sits today. She represents the pinnacle of the "sniper BB school of gameplay"

If you grind out the Kremlin, you will find that her main battery operates in a similar fashion to a shotgun. Great the closer you are, once you get to about 14km goodluck. Hence because of her need to push in close to be effective, Having incredibly strong turret traverse was deemed as part of the "Russian BB Flavor" that all their top tier BBs enjoy. I guess its really up to interpretation on if the Russian BBs are too strong, but I will say this. As soon as you flank her, any BB and even the Alaska if shes close enough can rake her side with AP and score citadels on pretty much every hit.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1,187
[EGO]
Members
3,683 posts
1 hour ago, Dianeces said:

If that's the way you want to play it, we should probably make sure that all the 457mms in the game overmatch 32mm armor. You know, for fairness. Or you could realize that turret rotation speed is one of the few balancing mechanics that Wargaming uses without really caring about historical accuracy; you can't just point to one number and say "this isn't fair" without also examining the context that number resides in.

(Note: overmatch is a [edited] mechanic and we should definitely not be expanding it in any form or fashion.)

It's not like Yamato wins in all the other areas.

Kremlin has 11000 more health.

Kremlin has better penetration.

Kremlin has higher speed.

Kremlin has better rudder shift.

Kremlin has better AA.

Kremlin has better concealment.

 

It certainly seems like there is room to improve Yamato's turret traverse.

 

 

  • Cool 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Members
4,080 posts
9,031 battles
1 hour ago, AbyssAngkor said:

Joke aside, you don't balance a game based on differences between 2 units. You have to account for how they fulfill their roles in a match. Kremlin is a mid-range specialist with heavy armor. The fast traverse is meant to compensate for the ship's massive size and awful handling. Yamato is a long-range BB killer that sacrifices gun handling for god-tier long-range accuracy and penetration. Yamato doesn't put herself in "no-mans-land" (the sea, in this case) and doesn't need to shift her sights much. The slow traverse also emphasizes Yamato's weakness against fighting multiple ships at once and close-range combat. 

This.

+1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Members
4,080 posts
9,031 battles
1 hour ago, Chien_Lu_Anderman said:

28.9 seconds on mine .     :cap_haloween:  lol

                :Smile_honoring:

29.6 on mine with the enhanced main battery guns!

:cap_wander::Smile_bajan2::Smile_teethhappy::cap_cool:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1,187
[EGO]
Members
3,683 posts
2 hours ago, AbyssAngkor said:

Yamato is a long-range BB killer that sacrifices gun handling for god-tier long-range accuracy and penetration. Yamato doesn't put herself in "no-mans-land" (the sea, in this case) and doesn't need to shift her sights much. The slow traverse also emphasizes Yamato's weakness against fighting multiple ships at once and close-range combat.

If you play the Georgia without EM you will see 45 seconds achieves this just fine.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
275
[RC_MP]
[RC_MP]
Members
500 posts
15,112 battles
3 hours ago, CaptainTeddybear said:

If you play the Georgia without EM you will see 45 seconds achieves this just fine.

Wait, why did Georgia pop up all of a sudden?

Georgia isn't a sniper like Yamato, nor is she an armored face-tanker like Kremlin. She carries big guns, sure, but her primary role isn't to fight other BBs.

Georgia is a cruiser killer. High speed (40kts, faster than most cruisers), 31mm overmatch threshold (cruisers carry up to 30mm deck armor, except Russian ones), powerful but low pen secondaries (only pen 27mm and below, not useful for fighting BBs). The reason Georgia received 45s traverse was because she was balanced around IFHE specced secondaries, which made it impossible to spec EM. Also, it makes sense that Georgia had faster turrets because each turret housed only 2 guns (Yamato has 3-gunned turrets). This meant Georgia's turrets weighed considerably less and took less effort to turn them.

Anyway, if you're still upset about slow turrets on the Yamato, consider putting in Yamamoto's EM and equipping MBM2 (+15% traverse rate) and dropping reload mod for 50s traverse turrets. Sure, it drops your DPM and accuracy to crap but hey, if faster turrets is what you want...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1,187
[EGO]
Members
3,683 posts
36 minutes ago, AbyssAngkor said:

Wait, why did Georgia pop up all of a sudden?

Georgia isn't a sniper like Yamato, nor is she an armored face-tanker like Kremlin. She carries big guns, sure, but her primary role isn't to fight other BBs.

Georgia is a cruiser killer. High speed (40kts, faster than most cruisers), 31mm overmatch threshold (cruisers carry up to 30mm deck armor, except Russian ones), powerful but low pen secondaries (only pen 27mm and below, not useful for fighting BBs). The reason Georgia received 45s traverse was because she was balanced around IFHE specced secondaries, which made it impossible to spec EM. Also, it makes sense that Georgia had faster turrets because each turret housed only 2 guns (Yamato has 3-gunned turrets). This meant Georgia's turrets weighed considerably less and took less effort to turn them.

Anyway, if you're still upset about slow turrets on the Yamato, consider putting in Yamamoto's EM and equipping MBM2 (+15% traverse rate) and dropping reload mod for 50s traverse turrets. Sure, it drops your DPM and accuracy to crap but hey, if faster turrets is what you want...

As I said 45 seconds is more than enough of a handicap in close range combat.

74 seconds impacts long range combat, with targets often disappearing before the guns will rotate. Especially with the ephemeral spotting that WG has forced into the game with CVs.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5,046
[PVE]
Members
9,314 posts
16,536 battles
17 hours ago, CaptainTeddybear said:

Yamato 18" guns 74 seconds to rotate. Kremlin 18" guns 34 seconds to rotate.

Does that seem right to you?

Could we get these numbers a little closer together?

Georgia 18" guns are 45 seconds to rotate.

Kremlin 40 seconds and Yamato 50 seconds is more reasonable imo.

Yamato:

  • 460MM main guns = 18.11 inches
  • Can overmatch 32MM bow armor
  • 26.6km main gun range
  • 26.4 sec reload (w/ MBM3)
  • 54.4 sec turret rotation (w/ EM and MBM3)
  • Eats citadels like a fat kid eats cake
  • Very accurate at all ranges

Kreml:

  • 457MM main guns = 17.99 inches
  • Can NOT overmatch 32MM bow armor
  • 20.7km main gun range
  • 29 sec reload (w/ MBM3)
  • 30.4 sec turret rotation (w/ EM and MBM3)
  • Eats citadels like a fat kid eats cake
  • Only accurate close up

I see no issue here. Seems pretty well balanced against each other.

Edited by AdmiralThunder

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1,892
-Members-
1,640 posts
792 battles
12 hours ago, CaptainTeddybear said:

Yamato 18" guns 74 seconds to rotate. Kremlin 18" guns 34 seconds to rotate.

Does that seem right to you?

Could we get these numbers a little closer together?

Georgia 18" guns are 45 seconds to rotate.

Kremlin 40 seconds and Yamato 50 seconds is more reasonable imo.

Hey CaptainTeddybear,

The IJN line as another captain has already said does have slower turret traverse than other lines but the playstyle of the IJN BBs is designed that way. They are designed to be a mid to long range sniping style of BB where in theory you will not be traversing your guns as much. The Soviet BBs are designed to be a more brawler style of BB where you will need to shift your guns more frequently from side to side. You also bring up the Georgia and she is kind of a hybrid with accurate guns and secondaries that make you want to close the distance. 

Tips for Yamato:

  • Always pre-plan where you want your guns before you commit to a movement because of the slow turret traverse speed.
  • The Yamato is not designed to a brawler, if you get into brawling range with another BB and the other BB knows what they are doing they will do a "drive-bye" and citadel you under the turrets.
  • You want to keep enemy ships at mid to long range so you can take advantage of the accurate guns. The Yamato is quite tanky with the combination of deck armor and torpedo protection.
  • When facing a Kremlin, aim for the superstructure if they are sitting bow on to you. You are more accurate with than them at range. Remember you can also overmatch 32mm armor and if I am not mistaken that is the thickness of the Kremlin bow =).

These are just a few tips to playing the Yamato correctly but if you are brawling you are playing her wrong! If you are going to brawl make sure your turrets are prepared and you destroy what you are shooting at. This is where other BBs gain the advantage if they can survive taking the damage and get around your slow turrets.

Good luck playing the Yamato!

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
186
[BOTES]
Members
213 posts
10,432 battles
10 hours ago, CaptainTeddybear said:

It's not like Yamato wins in all the other areas.

Kremlin has 11000 more health.

Kremlin has better penetration.

Kremlin has higher speed.

Kremlin has better rudder shift.

Kremlin has better AA.

Kremlin has better concealment.

 

It certainly seems like there is room to improve Yamato's turret traverse.

 

 

And despite all of that, the combo of overmatch and accuracy make Yamato still probably the best T10 BB. She's not exactly a ship desperate for buffs. 

Also I'll mention that out to around 12km, Yamato actually has better AP penetration, and a much tighter turning circle which is legitimately pretty valuable.  

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.

×