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ST: New Type of Shells

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Please note that the information in the Development Blog is preliminary.

Soon, there will be closed testing of the new mechanic of semi-armor piercing shells. 

Please note that if this concept of semi-armor piercing shells will be successfully tested, detailed information about its area of usage will be announced later.

Semi-armor piercing shells - a new type of shell, similar to high explosive terms of in armor penetration mechanics, which means that the shell explodes immediately after hitting the ship. However, the armor penetration of the semi-armor piercing shells will be higher than that of high explosive ones. The difference between this type of shell and high explosive shells is that they are not capable of causing fire or damaging the modules of the ship by the blast wave. When firing semi-armor piercing shells, it is possible to ricochet.

Semi-armor piercing shells, when properly used, can do more damage than high explosive shells, but the absence of fires and the presence of ricochets will give players the opportunity to effectively withstand this type of ammunition.

Please note that the information in the Development Blog is preliminary.

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Do I smell a future Italian line?

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8 minutes ago, Kami said:

Please note that the information in the Development Blog is preliminary.

Soon, there will be closed testing of the new mechanic of semi-armor piercing shells. 

Please note that if this concept of semi-armor piercing shells will be successfully tested, detailed information about its area of usage will be announced later.

Semi-armor piercing shells - a new type of shell, similar to high explosive terms of in armor penetration mechanics, which means that the shell explodes immediately after hitting the ship. However, the armor penetration of the semi-armor piercing shells will be higher than that of high explosive ones. The difference between this type of shell and high explosive shells is that they are not capable of causing fire or damaging the modules of the ship by the blast wave. When firing semi-armor piercing shells, it is possible to ricochet.

Semi-armor piercing shells, when properly used, can do more damage than high explosive shells, but the absence of fires and the presence of ricochets will give players the opportunity to effectively withstand this type of ammunition.

Please note that the information in the Development Blog is preliminary.

All British CLs don't have this already or something very similar? Extremely low fuse time so it goes boom almost when it hits.

This could be nice on a BB tho, experts on CA/CL combat but a bit lacking in BB fights.

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Shells with an Italian tech tree in mind?

Or an alternative to IFHE?

Or a new premium "purply" ammo?

 

 

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This could be an excellent fix to Roma by giving her SAP (or Granata Perforante in that case). It could address the issues of overpenetration AND add some historical flavor. Hoping tests are successful and this goes through for Italians.

@Phoenix_jz has written an excellent article on the matter:

 

Edited by warheart1992
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30 minutes ago, Ranari said:

Do I smell a future Italian line?

Definitely.  I'd bet on it.

Look for it to be included on the Italian cruiser line, when implemented.  Let's call it "national flavor".

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1 hour ago, XurMP said:

All British CLs don't have this already or something very similar? Extremely low fuse time so it goes boom almost when it hits.

From the description they sound like British SAP with less damage and shorter fuse times.

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Different ammo? WOT anyone?

Methinks we continue going the wrong way.

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... as long as it's not something you have to purchase above and beyond stock ammo... :cap_cool:

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Hopefully, it costs like the original HE and AP shells...
I don't wanna be using 50 000 credits per shell...

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I highly doubt this will end up as a "gold ammo". More than likely, it will be reserved for the Italians and some others. Everyone's been clambering for this ammunition - for good reason - and it's coming. Glad to see it.

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2 hours ago, Ace_04 said:

Definitely.  I'd bet on it.

Look for it to be included on the Italian cruiser line, when implemented.  Let's call it "national flavor".

Why do people keep attaching this to cruisers? At least look up the 203mm shells and compare them before making assumptions. 

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2 hours ago, LoveBote said:

Shells with an Italian tech tree in mind?

Or an alternative to IFHE?

Or a new premium "purply" ammo?

 

 

Do not mention Premium Ammo please don't give the children at WG any silly ideas please 

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2 hours ago, Kami said:

Please note that the information in the Development Blog is preliminary.

Soon, there will be closed testing of the new mechanic of semi-armor piercing shells. 

Please note that if this concept of semi-armor piercing shells will be successfully tested, detailed information about its area of usage will be announced later.

Semi-armor piercing shells - a new type of shell, similar to high explosive terms of in armor penetration mechanics, which means that the shell explodes immediately after hitting the ship. However, the armor penetration of the semi-armor piercing shells will be higher than that of high explosive ones. The difference between this type of shell and high explosive shells is that they are not capable of causing fire or damaging the modules of the ship by the blast wave. When firing semi-armor piercing shells, it is possible to ricochet.

Semi-armor piercing shells, when properly used, can do more damage than high explosive shells, but the absence of fires and the presence of ricochets will give players the opportunity to effectively withstand this type of ammunition.

Please note that the information in the Development Blog is preliminary.

Okay, item number 1 and this is a biggie - this better be a new type of standard ammo, and not a special option that requires gold or extra credits. Your other two games have done this, one failing one banking too much on it, and in both games it's unacceptable.

My second, would be that this should lead to the development of matching ordnance in bombs so we can correct some issues such as IJN bombs given the one you gave them can only be carried by level bombing aircraft that normally carry torpedoes. And IJN doctrine was to attack typically with a mix of HE and SAP bombs (the other reason why if your staff has looked at any of my numerous things I say to add bombs to IJN fighters that are HE with SAP DB's as it's far more historically accurate and differentiates it better from US/UK who would use more rockets).

What your saying here, is that it will be AP with a flat pen rate based on size and no drop off. Look, I won't say I didn't suggest a similar model for SAP bombs - but that was basically the last option on the list. The entire point of SAP Ordnance is that it has more explosives in it than AP, but better penetration than HE alone. Case in point on the bomb end - USN AN-MK 33, M59, and M65 1000 lb bombs, which have 150 lbs, 303 lbs, and 530 lbs of explosives respectively and are in order AP for heavy warships, SAP for light ones and concrete, and general purpose HE. I'm also the guy that has said for years that yeah, the combo of IFHE and Fires is an issue, but if it can richochet - that eliminates half the issue which is the autopen of the majority of ships outer armour layer for damage. All that is needed then is a slight tweak to fire burn times on BB's, or some changes to DCP and Repair Party to have faster CD's.

 

While personally I would be the insane one to find out the shell/bomb fillings and base the percent on difference between AP and HE - as long as it has a decently reduced fire chance, and a reduced blast radius for module damage it should be fine. Or even if we remove the fire component all together, again, I'd like it to have a minor one, at the very least the type should keep a blast radius for module damage, even if it's say a flat 50% of what the HE equivalent does. If were gonna have SAP then lets try and make it really SAP and not just "AP with some HE mechanics applied". If we were going to do anything like that it should be "HE with some AP mechanics applied. 

 

That said I do have a couple of potential concerns. The first is while I can only assume you'd lower the damage to be between that of HE and AP (which on shells is hilariously reversed) I do have concern over the increased pen depending on the amount. I can see this as causing more devastation to cruisers (less overpens) and returning the issue of BB AP vs DD in which the main instigator and problems, beyond DD players being bow on so AP can arm, was in fact the UK BB shells that had a similar function and more often then not could arm even in a more broadside DD then head on. But again that comes down to pen level and damage, would have to wait and see.

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19 minutes ago, tm63au said:

Do not mention Premium Ammo please don't give the children at WG any silly ideas please 

sorry tm. I'll stick to more sensible stuff:Smile_glasses:

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Depending on how this is handled, it could either be really good or really bad. I'm one of the people that has constant overpen issues, as I like to fight at close range when I can. Heck I even had more overpen issues than shatters with the much maligned Type 88 AP shells on Mutsu and formerly on Ashitaka, Nagato, and the original stock Amagi. Truth be told, I'm with WanderingGhost on this one, there should be a blast radius and even a small (like USN DD gun level) fire chance on SAP for it to actually be SAP. I've already got 'simulated SAP' on many of my British and German BBs by using the IFHE skill, on the Brits, it's for getting HE cits on cruisers at close range (or punching RU BBs in the face) and the Germans have it as a side effect of trying to maximize the effect of the secondary guns. I think if we were to start with the model of the RN BB IFHE enhanced HE shells, but massively nerf the fire chance and blast radius, that might be a decent prototype SAP shell for testing.

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3 hours ago, Herr_Reitz said:

... as long as it's not something you have to purchase above and beyond stock ammo... :cap_cool:

Yeah, feels like the game creeping closer to "gold" ammo. 

Speaking of things that killed WOT as a playable game.

 

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2 hours ago, Sparviero said:

Why do people keep attaching this to cruisers? At least look up the 203mm shells and compare them before making assumptions. 

:Smile_great:

I'm not sure why this keeps coming up - perhaps because the cruiser line is supposedly coming first? - but as Sparviero says, the SAP shells aren't something that should be assigned to the cruisers.

SAP, aka, Granata Perforante, was used by destroyers instead of AP, and battleships instead of HE. Cruisers used AP and HE.

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36 minutes ago, Phoenix_jz said:

:Smile_great:

I'm not sure why this keeps coming up - perhaps because the cruiser line is supposedly coming first? - but as Sparviero says, the SAP shells aren't something that should be assigned to the cruisers.

SAP, aka, Granata Perforante, was used by destroyers instead of AP, and battleships instead of HE. Cruisers used AP and HE.

Special ammo shouldn't really be in the game to begin with. 

It's bad enough with the RN CLs spamming their magical AP, and more ships every day getting special pen or special damage or whatever.

 

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Sounds interesting, but I sure hope that WG tests this much more thoroughly than they did the CV rework!

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2 minutes ago, TheArc said:

Sounds interesting, but I sure hope that WG tests this much more thoroughly than they did the CV rework!

They could hardly test it less.

 

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I'm sort of imagining a quarter-pen rule or better, but without the ability to do splash damage or start fires, and they suffer from AP ricochet rules.

Worst of all possible worlds, IMO. Whatever this is, it will not be Gold ammo.

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25 minutes ago, KilljoyCutter said:

They could hardly test it less.

Sadly true.

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45 minutes ago, Ensign_Cthulhu said:

I'm sort of imagining a quarter-pen rule or better, but without the ability to do splash damage or start fires, and they suffer from AP ricochet rules.

Worst of all possible worlds, IMO. Whatever this is, it will not be Gold ammo.

On paper, it's perfect for all target types when looking at it from an Italian BB perspective:

Smash up Cruisers and Destroyers with SAP and better damage than what you'd get with AP, especially BB AP versus most Destroyers.

 

Battleships?  Now you got serious armor to contend with, you got bounce mechanics in place.  Which is why you fire SAP into superstructure if the target is angled.  Just like you would in today's regular BBs, which would often get Overpens mixed in with Pens.  To me the SAP will get less Overpens from the way WG describes them.

 

To me SAP looks like a Universal Round.  It may not be as best in specific circumstances as HE or AP (especially BB AP to crush Cruisers outright), but you'll have less Overpens to keep damage steady against more damage types.

Edited by HazeGrayUnderway

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