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NoZoupForYou

WG Gone Wild - Crazy Ships and Strange Times

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Tough video to make, but there are serious player concerns that need addressing.  It;s important for the player base and the longevity of the game.  I've never seen WG so out of sync with what the player base wants and needs as we are right now.  A multitude of T9 and 10 ships on the way and there are bugs and UI issues that have plagued the game for years and still aren't fixed.  I love the game, despite the issues, but I fear for it.

 

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22 minutes ago, NoZoupForYou said:

I love the game, despite the issues, but I fear for it.

Same here.  I haven't spent a dollar in months on this game, as I want to get a better feel for the long-term direction of it before I do.  My trepidation of everything is keeping me away from any significant investment into it at this time.

Edited by Ace_04
Grammar correction
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This may be the beginning of the end for me.

Not that there's anything I dislike in particular, just that when they started flooding WoT with paper premiums, that was about the time it started losing its lustre, so it's more of an indicator.

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1 minute ago, Skpstr said:

This may be the beginning of the end for me.

Not that there's anything I dislike in particular, just that when they started flooding WoT with paper premiums, that was about the time it started losing its lustre, so it's more of an indicator.

Leopards unfortunately do not change their spots.  They are 100% making this WoT on water with the introduction of the CV in their current state being just like ARTY.

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If it wasn't for the people but I know here in game and clan I would be done already

It is to bad,  The gimmicks and the goofy gameplay that's not realistic at all not even close is really cheesed the game out

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If Colbert and Smolensk are the rainbow-arc-of-fire solutions needed to get people out from behind their rocks, if even Harugumo isn't enough, I don't think it's a problem with WG per se

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I am getting, more and more, that there's a huge catchup problem. I'm new to the game, and all of these are out there, and I don't have the resources to get them (other than dropping hundreds in real cash) and yet I still have to face them. So, it's either commit all the money or be forever fighting against the newest and greatest, which will always be greater than the thing I can get. 

It's turning me away from the game, to be frank. I realized this weekend that just playing to get the daily missions/crates had become work. I don't want work. I have enough work in my life.

It was fun, briefly, but it's basically the same. I'll hang around for the next patch and take a look, but I honestly don't think I'll be playing very much more. It's...just work. There's a really fun game in here...it just seems, to me, to be buried under a lot of work, a lot of economy, a lot of...grind. 

The only grind I want to deal with is my coffee. 

Maybe this is a "just me" problem. No game is for everybody. But...man, this game was really welcoming to the newbie for the first two weeks, then BAM into the grinder. 

 

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1 minute ago, User_the_n00b said:

I am getting, more and more, that there's a huge catchup problem. I'm new to the game, and all of these are out there, and I don't have the resources to get them (other than dropping hundreds in real cash) and yet I still have to face them. So, it's either commit all the money or be forever fighting against the newest and greatest, which will always be greater than the thing I can get. 

It's turning me away from the game, to be frank. I realized this weekend that just playing to get the daily missions/crates had become work. I don't want work. I have enough work in my life.

It was fun, briefly, but it's basically the same. I'll hang around for the next patch and take a look, but I honestly don't think I'll be playing very much more. It's...just work. There's a really fun game in here...it just seems, to me, to be buried under a lot of work, a lot of economy, a lot of...grind. 

The only grind I want to deal with is my coffee. 

Maybe this is a "just me" problem. No game is for everybody. But...man, this game was really welcoming to the newbie for the first two weeks, then BAM into the grinder. 

 

Agree completely. IT is work. I will play 2-3 matches a day, get my first two crates and call it.  This game has a capacity to frustrate me very quickly due to bad mechanics (Cv's) + bad players..   One WG can fix, the other they cannot.

Hopefully the powers that be take a listen to this video and do some reflection on what people want.

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Weird. I agree with Zoup on something.

Dragon flags + Asian camos also caused the free xp creep. For not very much real life $ you get the ability to harvest massive quantities of fxp.

Edited by enderland07
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13 minutes ago, Ensign_Cthulhu said:

If Colbert and Smolensk are the rainbow-arc-of-fire solutions needed to get people out from behind their rocks, if even Harugumo isn't enough, I don't think it's a problem with WG per se

If I had a nickel for every time my team would watch an Atlanta burn me to death in a BB while hiding behind their island, then proceed after my hull has sunk below I'd have about 5 dollars.

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7 minutes ago, User_the_n00b said:

I realized this weekend that just playing to get the daily missions/crates had become work. I don't want work. I have enough work in my life.

Also its been no fun or me since the CV rework.  If there is one thing i can not stand in a game is being farmed by someone  and I have no meaningful way of mitigating it. So if things don't get better before my preim time runs out I will be chased way from this game to. Sub Octivan so much reminds me of Ion Hazzikostas of world of warcraft. Comes in and totally goes against what I feel is the majority of players and destroys a great game. I have put a lot of money into both games but now spend zero. But Subs spreadsheet says I am having fun so I guess i should just stop whining and go away. 

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26 minutes ago, Ensign_Cthulhu said:

If Colbert and Smolensk are the rainbow-arc-of-fire solutions needed to get people out from behind their rocks, if even Harugumo isn't enough, I don't think it's a problem with WG per se

Carrot/stick approach. I'd prefer they offered actual benefits to attacking instead of trying to punish not-attacking (which they do only by half anyway). Imagine if you got 5% of the damage your secondaries dealt (including fires started by them) as a heal in a BB? Or 10% of AP Pens from CA/CL's back as healing? Or kills from torps in a DD healed you 15% of your base health? How about if you got 100% XP/Credits for damage done <30% of your max range? I imagine THAT would have a greater effect on player behavior than yet more HE Spam.

Also the glut of T9/T10 premiums/premium-like ships is largely due to, I believe, an increasing volume of players 'hiding' at T9/T10 to avoid ever being downtiered/having top quality equipment to avoid potential mis-matches. DD's are the exception of course, they are all hiding at T7-6 and below to reduce the impact of radar/CV's, but I'd argue the sheer volume of T9/T10 CA/CL and BB and CV play is largely to avoid the risk of the near 100% bottom tier rate at T8 and the bashing you take at T6/T5. Problem is this will have long term diminishing returns on ROI, as it takes the same energy to make a T10 as it does to make a T8, but due to pricing, far fewer people are likely to buy them, and thus reducing your income, likely below that of the inflated costs can make up. Additionally, it exasperates the already all-too-common problem of people buying there ways to tiers they frankly have no business playing yet, which further increases player malaise.

Just now, JBR40 said:

Also its been no fun or me since the CV rework

Honestly I do not think it is the CV rework. I mostly play ships 100% unaffected by the rework (RN/USN CL/CA's) and I've all but entirely burnt out on WoWs and am taking a break through at least this next event and likely the next. The game has, frankly, become boring and predictable; win or lose. And predictable in the sense, players don't surprise me anymore (and I doubt anyone else). That doesn't mean you always win/beat the opponent; far too much RNG exists in this game to prevent that, but tell me, when you spawn on say Okinawa, in a 2DD/6CA/CL/4BB match, do you not have a pretty good idea on how it's going to go? That 1 DD each will go to the center, get spotted, cause the lines to start shooting at them, then start shooting at each other as lead elements of BB's/CA/CL's turn away, then walls of Radar will start. Then walls of counter fire. Then one side will go to the west, one to the east, and then it's a crapenshoot over who wins or loses?

It's pretty predictable at this point and boring as a result. And more and more interesting games are coming out this year which is bad timing for WoWs. I am very curious to see how it weathers the 1-2 punch of Halo MCC and Borderlands 3 coming out this year.

Edited by _RC1138
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6 minutes ago, I_Potato_Ther4_I_Yam said:

If I had a nickel for every time my team would watch an Atlanta burn me to death in a BB while hiding behind their island, then proceed after my hull has sunk below I'd have about 5 dollars.

Part of me doesn't mind this simply because there's a counter. Get around the island and shoot the US CL a couple of time and watch it die. Long arcing HE spam and AA are what makes US CLs US CLs. Great when hiding, crap when in close (though the Atlanta at least has torpedos.) You cut around an island on a IJN Cruiser, you better have mad torpedo beats or you're toast. And man, hitting things at 10km+ with the rainbow guns is hard. 

But all that's getting muddled. French had fast BBs, but now the US gets a BB with a speed boost. Germans had secondaries of doom, now everybody's getting that ship - and why the Mass has great secondaries and the Iowa, WITH THE EXACT SAME GUNS IN THE EXACT SAME LAYOUT doesn't? I can't even. Why should the US have a mad secondary boat? If it did, it would be, oh, the original Standards with the ranks of 5"/51s, not the fast battleships that had 5"/38s that were optimized for AA. 

Ship lines meant something, but they're being muddled. 

 

 

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Their revenue model doesn't support supporting things that don't bring in revenue.....

Fixes to UI, CV's, AA, multiple economies.... Don't bring in any revenue. I am pretty sure it's that simple. 

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16 minutes ago, User_the_n00b said:

So, it's either commit all the money or be forever fighting against the newest and greatest,

Getting the newest and greatest will not guarantee you to beat a better player with the newest and greatest.

Good players with tech tree ships can kill worse players in super-premiums.

You do not have to put any money into this game at all to succeed, provided you pace yourself and don't race too high up the tiers too quickly. There is no obligation to do so.

The amount of stuff I've got for free in WOWS is insane; you just have to look carefully at all the events, work out the best and most efficient way to win it, and accept that sometimes you just can't. Grab the low-hanging fruit and move on. 

7 minutes ago, I_Potato_Ther4_I_Yam said:

If I had a nickel for every time my team would watch an Atlanta burn me to death in a BB while hiding behind their island, then proceed after my hull has sunk below I'd have about 5 dollars.

Oh God, yes. First to fight, first to die, reinforcements show up just as I am exploding. Nobody could accuse me of being a back row sniper.

9 minutes ago, enderland07 said:

Dragon flags + Asian camos also caused the free xp creep. For not very much real life $ you get the ability to harvest massive quantities of fxp.

If I could SPECIFICALLY buy these, of the exact type I wanted, in the amount I wanted, when I wanted them, I would be giving a lot more money to this game. I tend to burn through mine in huge spasms of grinding and then I'm short for ages, but it's got me what I want so far (three 19-pointers, plus the Musashi just before she was pulled).

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I totally agree with Zoup!!! When my premium time is gone.........so am I!

It's work and the fun is harder to find!

Too many new ships with too many "gimmicks". And now goofy game modes that did take time to develop, while ignoring the PROBLEMS we have in game. (the port ui being the worst thing to "put up" with that could be fixed)

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38 minutes ago, RenamedUser_1014381829 said:

Leopards unfortunately do not change their spots.  They are 100% making this WoT on water with the introduction of the CV in their current state being just like ARTY.

I disagree slightly, CVs are nowhere near as bad as arty, not that you can necessarily counter them, but there's a bit more to the interaction than just being in the wrong place at the wrong time.

And WoT arty is apparently a lot better than it was when I played. 

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Another fact, since I'm ranting, is that 0.8.4 (in particular, the DX11 conversion) basically broke Mac clients. D_gladkov (hope I got their name right..) did a lot of work trying to get the game running on Macs again (for which I thank them - and yes, when 0.8.4 came out Mac clients DIDN'T RUN AT ALL!)  but the CPU load is horrible. I gave up and just boot into Windows now to play the game, but that's a turn off as well, I can't just play a round anymore, it's a full reboot, play, full reboot back. 

I mean, I have no problems with games not supporting Macs. You write for the platforms you want to support. But don't tell me it's supported when it's barely functional. I actually support the decision - coding is work, if DX11 makes that easier, then do that. But just admit that you're abandoning the platform. When a i9/9900 with a 8GB Radeon has the CPUs spiking while trying to run in low graphics at half screen res? That's...that's just bad. Doubly so when I'm running 2560x1440 at Maximum graphics on windows and the CPUs are barely ticking over.

I haven't tried 5K yet because...well...it does look nice as is, and I will be the first to admit that this can be a VERY pretty game. (The music's pretty solid as well. Props to the design department all around there.)

Final confession: Is it just me, or does anyone else have this unreasonable urge to shoot lighthouses? 

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1 hour ago, NoZoupForYou said:

there are serious player concerns that need addressing.  It;s important for the player base and the longevity of the game.

your video is right on. I feel the current meta shift is to attract younger players who prefer twitchy games like COD, or Player Unknown.  The increase in tempo of the game at the cost of tactics and strategies is alienating the current player base. There has to be a monetary reason behind it. maybe a white paper somewhere that shows getting a nickel from younger kids in masses can produce more revenue  than a few solid older well established whales. overall, the meta shift really perplexes me.  

 

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5 minutes ago, Ensign_Cthulhu said:

Oh God, yes. First to fight, first to die, reinforcements show up just as I am exploding. Nobody could accuse me of being a back row sniper.

One big problem is the instant-punish effect. You get out front? PT turns to 6+ and then, well, you die. 

I understand EXACTLY why it happens. It makes perfect sense for it to happen. I've been one of the six on the other side making it happen.

But the end result? You get taught that if you stick your nose out too far, you die instantly - so don't be. And thus camping was born, and it will continue. Dittos BBs camping. They move up, DD torps them. Happens two three times, and they're off filling out the BB Camping Society membership forms.

 

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2 minutes ago, User_the_n00b said:

You get taught that if you stick your nose out too far, you die instantly - so don't be. And thus camping was born,

I'm one of those generous souls that goes in balls-deep to support the destroyer (which usually also dies). I do this in the hope that when it's over and the newb DD captain goes back to port, they'll remember that someone else tried to back them up and they will feel good about the game. 

Of course I did have one rather dismal experience in which an obviously experienced and extremely craven DD captain hung me and at least two others in the same  battle out to dry in front of superior numbers when they could have smoked us up, but those scum are rare.

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18 minutes ago, _RC1138 said:

Also the glut of T9/T10 premiums/premium-like ships is largely due to, I believe, an increasing volume of players 'hiding' at T9/T10 to avoid ever being downtiered/having top quality equipment to avoid potential mis-matches. 


T8 is a problem. I spent a while just raging when I got stuck in a T10 hell match (often with me as the lone T8.) I eventually got better and managed to contribute some, but one of the most "Oh, screw this moments" was my first match in the Cleveland where I got blotted by a CV and a BB firing from across the map. It's the kind of moment that makes people quit games. 

A "If you were down-tier last match, you're top tier this match" bit would solve most of the problem, you don't need to make it impossible for T8s to fight T10, you just need to make it so it's not happening 3/4s of the time (and with the new T9 premiums, well, the queue is full of shiny and so...) It's a grind from T8 to T10, you really don't want to make them fell like heck when they first get to T8. Need some carrot with that stick. 

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12 minutes ago, Ensign_Cthulhu said:

If I could SPECIFICALLY buy these, of the exact type I wanted, in the amount I wanted, when I wanted them, I would be giving a lot more money to this game. I tend to burn through mine in huge spasms of grinding and then I'm short for ages, but it's got me what I want so far (three 19-pointers, plus the Musashi just before she was pulled).

Some of the older crate sets are very good at getting them. It's not directly buying them but pretty close.

 

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I will agree with Zoup about ranked being a grind.  I started playing ranked and clan battles to get steel, because I wanted the Bourgogne.  I enjoyed clan battles, because it was nice to have voice chat with your team mates, and actually coordinate tactics.  In ranked, I managed to get up to rank 8, then alternated losing streaks and winning streaks, and got stuck bouncing back and forth between rank 11 and rank 9.  My clan invited me to a division the other night to play the Narai operation.  It was like taking a break for a few games.

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Playerbase does not make the game, the game makes playerbase.

Ancient WG proverb.

Spoiler

(the opposite wouldn't be any better, dog led by its tail, either way)

 

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