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Herr_Reitz

S M O K E it's not for everybody

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Dusted off my Belfast... I now remember one of the biggest annoyances in playing her. Smoke. 

Her smoke is not for you, BBs. Sure, Belfast smoke is magical... but you, my friend, have a very large blast radius when you fire. Huge. You draw fired down on the Belfast from 80% of the map. Belfast gets blapped simply by being near you. 

This of course forces the Belfast to leave her smoke. Her gun range is not nearly equal to all those BBs firing at you. Carrier planes spot her leaving smoke, red bbs fire, splat. 

This is of course my opinion, but quite often the rule, in my book, is stay out of other people's smoke. Unless they drop it specifically for you. A thank you then is in order. 

Another way to think of it is this - if your unsmoked conceal is greater than 9.0km, stay out of her smoke. Thanks for your understanding in this matter. 

:cap_tea:

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I saw a WG video clip where a DD fired a spread of torps into smoke and hit three ships. 

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I've lost track of the number if times I've been rammed by some idiot trying to "share" my smoke. 

Unless it's huge USN DD smoke clouds, stay out of other player's smoke.  It's not for you.  You are not invited.

 

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Is large caliber guns cutting smoke time still a thing? Makes me feel bad when people try to share Perth/Huang He smoke. They either over shoot or forget i'm always on the move. 

Edited by Yoshiblue

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Bad BB drivers who slip into your smoke, uninvited, are very rude and very DNGRous. 

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 I'm amazed at the number who don't understand smoke dynamics.  I got yelled at by a high tier DD for not using his smoke in middle of cap while in a Kremlin.   Trying to explain that as long as I'm actively shooting it's worthless was an exercise in futility.

Now, a DD that smokes for me to cover a withdrawal to repair/heal gets a +1 every time.  

Edited by Warped_1

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2 hours ago, GrayPanther2018 said:

I saw a WG video clip where a DD fired a spread of torps into smoke and hit three ships. 

I did that once with my Shiratsuyu against some combination of Belfasts and Atlantas.  Don't remember if it was 1 BF and 2 ATLs, or 2 BFs and 1 ATL.  I launched a full strike of torps into the smoke, then used my TRB and launched a second full strike into the smoke.

It was GLORIOUS!!!  3 kills in the space of a small handful of seconds!

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2 hours ago, Warped_1 said:

 I'm amazed at the number who don't understand smoke dynamics.  I got yelled at by a high tier DD for not using his smoke in middle of cap while in a Kremlin.   Trying to explain that as long as I'm actively shooting it's worthless was an exercise in futility.

Now, a DD that smokes for me to cover a withdrawal to repair/heal gets a +1 every time.  

Warped, I suspect that the problem is that there are a good number of casual players who learned the original smoke rules and never bothered staying up to date with the changes, and have apparently never noticed that shooting a BBs main guns from within or behind smoke does nothing to conceal your BB.

Oh well.  Just take advantage of them when they're on the enemy team.

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3 hours ago, GrayPanther2018 said:

I saw a WG video clip where a DD fired a spread of torps into smoke and hit three ships. 

During the first Space Battles, I was fooling around with Space Gearing.  There was a moment where I knew something like 4 ships were camping inside some Space Minotaur's smoke.  I was pretty far, at around 13, 14km.  But I took the chance, fired all Gearing's long range torps at the smoke.  I expected nothing to hit because my concern was the smoke would dissipate before my torps arrived and the enemy boats would split up.  But it's a chance for a big time attack, so I launched.

 

Anyways, my chances dropped significantly when out of this island an enemy Space Zao comes out at about 7km, spots my torpedoes, evades them.

Me:  "D*MNIT!"

With my torps spotted and a Zao sailing my way, I felt my attack was foiled.  I turned away from Space Zao, knowing I was in trouble since I had just launched my torps.  After what seemed like an eternity, I then get the pinging sound effect of hits being made when I hadn't fired my guns at all.  Turns out my Torpedoes arrived.  Out of my 10 torpedoes fired at super long range at smoke campers, I got 7 hits.  Maybe 1 kill at best, but I remember it being 7 hits.  7 torp hits at 13, 14km is extremely lucky for me, but it was helped when you got a bunch of guys camping smoke and not knowing any better.

Had any of those smoke campers bothered to look and see my incoming torps that the Space Zao spotted long ago, they'd have escaped and I'd get nothing.

If Space Zao had not spotted my torps, had any of those 4 ships ran Hydro, they'd have better warning and time to evade.  I'd likely still get some hits because of the surprise and delay in reaction, but getting 7 hits against opponents with better warning would be harder to accomplish.

Edited by HazeGrayUnderway

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2 hours ago, Warped_1 said:

Now, a DD that smokes for me to cover a withdrawal to repair/heal gets a +1 every time.  

I had one try to give me cover, but I couldn't stop in time and got blatted. He said "But why didn't you use my smoke?" I just replied "Was going too fast, couldn't stop in time, thank you very much for the try" and +1. 

If he'd been moving just a little slower I could have hit him and stopped. :Smile_great:

Edited by User_the_n00b
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1 hour ago, HazeGrayUnderway said:

During the first Space Battles, I was fooling around with Space Gearing.  There was a moment where I knew something like 4 ships were camping inside some Space Minotaur's smoke.  I was pretty far, at around 13, 14km.  But I took the chance, fired all Gearing's long range torps at the smoke.  I expected nothing to hit because my concern was the smoke would dissipate before my torps arrived and the enemy boats would split up.  But it's a chance for a big time attack, so I launched.

 

Anyways, my chances dropped significantly when out of this island an enemy Space Zao comes out at about 7km, spots my torpedoes, evades them.

Me:  "D*MNIT!"

With my torps spotted and a Zao sailing my way, I felt my attack was foiled.  I turned away from Space Zao, knowing I was in trouble since I had just launched my torps.  After what seemed like an eternity, I then get the pinging sound effect of hits being made when I hadn't fired my guns at all.  Turns out my Torpedoes arrived.  Out of my 10 torpedoes fired at super long range at smoke campers, I got 7 hits.  Maybe 1 kill at best, but I remember it being 7 hits.  7 torp hits at 13, 14km is extremely lucky for me, but it was helped when you got a bunch of guys camping smoke and not knowing any better.

Had any of those smoke campers bothered to look and see my incoming torps that the Space Zao spotted long ago, they'd have escaped and I'd get nothing.

If Space Zao had not spotted my torps, had any of those 4 ships ran Hydro, they'd have better warning and time to evade.  I'd likely still get some hits because of the surprise and delay in reaction, but getting 7 hits against opponents with better warning would be harder to accomplish.

I actually get hit more often when I have more time to dodge.  I tend to over think it, and decide to change my mind on which gaps to try and fit though, and take a lot of hits.

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5 hours ago, Carlos_DNGR said:

Bad BB drivers who slip into your smoke, uninvited, are very rude and very DNGRous. 

So are bad congressmen who take pictures of their privates and slip them into your inbox uninvited, Carlos - I mean Anthony. No, I mean Carlos.

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I‘m a simple BB man, I see smoke, I like...

yeah, real annoyance for RN CL, a BB that try to hide in or direct behind your smokescreen. 

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6 hours ago, Herr_Reitz said:

This of course forces the Belfast to leave her smoke

No, it really doesn’t force you to leave your smoke. There should be enough room for two ships, and you can take undirected fire in your smoke even without another ship in it. 

Leaving your smoke prematurely, without removing spotters like planes or waiting for enemy BBs to have fired JUST before you cross the detection threshold is foolish and it should be no surprise that people try and punish a dangerous ship like Belfast when she is caught in the open. 

I agree that people pushing you out of your own smoke is extremely annoying and borderline griefing, but if they are just parked there it’s no excuse to drive out and do something stupid. 

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5 hours ago, Warped_1 said:

 I'm amazed at the number who don't understand smoke dynamics.  I got yelled at by a high tier DD for not using his smoke in middle of cap while in a Kremlin.   Trying to explain that as long as I'm actively shooting it's worthless was an exercise in futility.

Now, a DD that smokes for me to cover a withdrawal to repair/heal gets a +1 every time.  

I think I’m with the DD on this one. If you were capping, why not finish the cap before cycling your guns (unless obvious one shot target presents itself, ofc...) 

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3 hours ago, HazeGrayUnderway said:

Had any of those smoke campers bothered to look and see my incoming torps that the Space Zao spotted long ago, they'd have escaped and I'd get nothing

Had something similar last night in my Flint. Fired random torps into a cap, where enemy DD did strong torpedobeats to miss them. About 20 seconds later, get 2 hits on a moving furry taco.

Couldnt believe it. 

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14 minutes ago, UltimateNewbie said:

I think I’m with the DD on this one. If you were capping, why not finish the cap before cycling your guns (unless obvious one shot target presents itself, ofc...) 

Uhm, you have a half dozen ships sighted, you are visible for another 20 sec or so, you are a huge target that anyone firing into smoke will still hit.  You have to stop so you can't manuver.  Sure....

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4 hours ago, HazeGrayUnderway said:

During the first Space Battles, I was fooling around with Space Gearing.  There was a moment where I knew something like 4 ships were camping inside some Space Minotaur's smoke.  I was pretty far, at around 13, 14km.  But I took the chance, fired all Gearing's long range torps at the smoke.  I expected nothing to hit because my concern was the smoke would dissipate before my torps arrived and the enemy boats would split up.  But it's a chance for a big time attack, so I launched.

 

Anyways, my chances dropped significantly when out of this island an enemy Space Zao comes out at about 7km, spots my torpedoes, evades them.

Me:  "D*MNIT!"

With my torps spotted and a Zao sailing my way, I felt my attack was foiled.  I turned away from Space Zao, knowing I was in trouble since I had just launched my torps.  After what seemed like an eternity, I then get the pinging sound effect of hits being made when I hadn't fired my guns at all.  Turns out my Torpedoes arrived.  Out of my 10 torpedoes fired at super long range at smoke campers, I got 7 hits.  Maybe 1 kill at best, but I remember it being 7 hits.  7 torp hits at 13, 14km is extremely lucky for me, but it was helped when you got a bunch of guys camping smoke and not knowing any better.

Had any of those smoke campers bothered to look and see my incoming torps that the Space Zao spotted long ago, they'd have escaped and I'd get nothing.

If Space Zao had not spotted my torps, had any of those 4 ships ran Hydro, they'd have better warning and time to evade.  I'd likely still get some hits because of the surprise and delay in reaction, but getting 7 hits against opponents with better warning would be harder to accomplish.

I remember something similar with my benson,      fired 10 torp at  group of ships  coming down the pike  and got 7 hits over 3 botes.     on that match, I  did 152k dmg (my record benson match) without firing a gun once.  LOL

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So are we saying now that dd smoke is just for the DD to hide in and shoot out of?

    There's is no using smoke for the benefit of the team?

    I see DD players go into cap and smoke within the first three minutes. Stay there and shoot from smoke get destroyed when radar cruisers show up because there is no escape for them. 

    should you say the same about cruiser consumables? DD get out of my radar or dfaa?

     Don't be rediculous when DD pops smoke and blinds everyone from shooting it's useless. 

    

Edited by grorg

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1 hour ago, grorg said:

So are we saying now that dd smoke is just for the DD to hide in and shoot out of?

    There's is no using smoke for the benefit of the team?

    I see DD players go into cap and smoke within the first three minutes. Stay there and shoot from smoke get destroyed when radar cruisers show up because there is no escape for them. 

    should you say the same about cruiser consumables? DD get out of my radar or dfaa?

     Don't be rediculous when DD pops smoke and blinds everyone from shooting it's useless. 

    

It became popular opinion after smoke firing concealment radius became a thing that smoke was near useless for larger ships.

All it did was require a smidge of skill by the ship laying the smoke and the ship firing in or over it.  There are several techniques to conceal ships with poor smoke firing ratings, one is the smoke curtain.  Just like closing the curtain you smoke to break line of sight to the enemy.  The vessel you are concealing sits 5-10km behind your smoke to gain the distance they need to shoot while remaining concealed.

Its still possible to smoke BBs right up on cap for devastating fire while concealed, you just need to know the map's terrain.  Use low islands to break line of sight to the enemy, and your smoke prevents any detection from air.  Most BBs have never practiced such things, but I assure you its a tactic that has seen use in competitive games.  At the very least smoke is a damage mitigation tool for BBs.  Their gun bloom last 20 seconds meaning firing continuously they are undetected for a decent amount of time during the reload, meaning HE spam is going to be hard to keep up the same level of damage as aimed fire.  BBs always have the option of holding fire for good targets to further save HP.

I have many videos up using different techniques for team smokes.

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8 hours ago, KilljoyCutter said:

I've lost track of the number if times I've been rammed by some idiot trying to "share" my smoke. 

Unless it's huge USN DD smoke clouds, stay out of other player's smoke.  It's not for you.  You are not invited.

 

As if your fellow teammates actually care what you want in random?:Smile_trollface:

I stopped playing smoke ships long ago in random, it was getting to absurd.

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3 hours ago, UltimateNewbie said:

agree that people pushing you out of your own smoke is extremely annoying and borderline griefing, but if they are just parked there it’s no excuse to drive out and do something stupid. 

When they mosey on in there, scrape your side, stop and fire broadside over you it IS time to leave. Trust me. 

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3 hours ago, UltimateNewbie said:

No, it really doesn’t force you to leave your smoke. There should be enough room for two ships, and you can take undirected fire in your smoke even without another ship in it. 

Leaving your smoke prematurely, without removing spotters like planes or waiting for enemy BBs to have fired JUST before you cross the detection threshold is foolish and it should be no surprise that people try and punish a dangerous ship like Belfast when she is caught in the open. 

I agree that people pushing you out of your own smoke is extremely annoying and borderline griefing, but if they are just parked there it’s no excuse to drive out and do something stupid. 

 

It is not about having room in the smoke it is about enemy ships firing into the smoke at the BB and hitting the ship that dropped the smoke by accident or the ship trying to "share" your smoke fires into you or pushes you out of it. One of those 3 things happens to me nearly every time some nitwit decides let me jump into the DDs smoke.  If I wanted to smoke someone else I would drop the smoke and leave but if I smoke up and sit in it I am setting up a torp drop or going to fire main guns.  Try to think of smoke as if it were a motorcycle.  Any more than two balls is too many.

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