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Nato101

Damage / PR

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Before I begin, I'd like to state that I'm not trying to take anything away from another man's gameplay. I am not trying to claim 'props'.

Had a game where another DD was complimented for an admittedly lucky strike. Meanwhile, I'd confronted 2 BBs in my Nicholas at face-distance, and killed one. Later, I'd torped the other to death. I'd also captured the point they were rushing.

Thus, I didn't last too long after that, asides from taking some potshots when I could, for me to die.

Point being, 2 BBs rushed a cap and I'd prevented that action. I took practically all the health from one, and finished off the other later on. That allowed me the capture point.

I believe that such actions are 'game-makers'. Give me an Iron Cross (JK!) But in all seriousness, perhaps early damage should be rewarded to a higher degree, as it prevents camping and rewards 'action'. From a DD perspective, anyhow. Because I can hang around all game shooting off torps, but if I do not present myself to risk, what's the use? I'd just be taking comfortable potshots with my high-camo value.....

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lets see here, I assume

  • you got the spotting ribbon
  • plus majority  DMG on 2 BBs about 90k DMG roughly
  • 2 kill
  • Honorable reward
  • The green ribbon for defending the caps.

All considering, you want to be rewarded more/extra because your DMG (in battle like your teammates) was in a role of gambling/high risk.

That is like me saying as a cruiser cpt. "Ok guys, I took down all the DDs, I should be rewarded  more for doing my duties in a dangerous fashion."

IMO, I really dont think that is going to fly.

 

 

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Staying alive is one of the most important things you can do as a DD in this game.

Not yolo rushing.

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30 minutes ago, Nato101 said:

Before I begin, I'd like to state that I'm not trying to take anything away from another man's gameplay. I am not trying to claim 'props'.

Had a game where another DD was complimented for an admittedly lucky strike. Meanwhile, I'd confronted 2 BBs in my Nicholas at face-distance, and killed one. Later, I'd torped the other to death. I'd also captured the point they were rushing.

Thus, I didn't last too long after that, asides from taking some potshots when I could, for me to die.

Point being, 2 BBs rushed a cap and I'd prevented that action. I took practically all the health from one, and finished off the other later on. That allowed me the capture point.

I believe that such actions are 'game-makers'. Give me an Iron Cross (JK!) But in all seriousness, perhaps early damage should be rewarded to a higher degree, as it prevents camping and rewards 'action'. From a DD perspective, anyhow. Because I can hang around all game shooting off torps, but if I do not present myself to risk, what's the use? I'd just be taking comfortable potshots with my high-camo value.....

So, what I got from this is that you want scoring changed because you believe your personal play style should be rewarded better?:Smile_amazed:

 

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naw,  any DD that YOLO to  gurgle should get a special ribbon.  :D    not that there is anything wrong with YOLOing  :cap_haloween:

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I'm not sure what you're trying to say. You got rewarded for doing damage and capping. But you think you should get more because you did it early? 

I'd say that you might have been better off staying back, torping, harassing and spotting those BBs. Because late game, your DD is even more important. It worked that time, but usually YOLO rushes end up with a trade at best. Then the team is down a DD, which are often crucial later in the game.

As I'm learning cruisers, I've found the trick is maintaining health for the late game, while still being effective. Because at the beginning you can do some long range harassing, chase some DDs off with radar. But if you avoid getting focused, once the reds are thinned a bit and on low health, then you flourish. Cruisers excel at melting down lower health isolated ships, or zoning out and then chasing and cornering a DD. But those things can't be done in front of a lot of enemy ships. So while an early YOLO might net you a DD (yay) at best you lose so much HP as to be ineffective the rest of the game. You cost your team your more valuable firepower in the endgame. Some times games are decided in the first few minutes. Usually though there is a point where the initial rushes have been stopped, everyone regroups, repairs, and the second round starts. It can be a subtle change, but the team whose ships are best in position to start picking apart the other's isolated ships wins that one. And it is that round which often shifts the battle firmly to one side due to map control. Hanging back is bad, but so is yoloing in. Like most things in life, the ideal is somewhere in between.

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4 hours ago, Nato101 said:

I'd just be taking comfortable potshots with my high-camo value.....

And that's exactly how you are supposed to play DDs, not charge in and die.

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3 hours ago, centarina said:

naw,  any DD that YOLO to  gurgle should get a special ribbon.  :D    not that there is anything wrong with YOLOing  :cap_haloween:

As a DD main I will admit there is times when to contribute to team victory the "YOLO" is needed. I have had my Kamikaze go gun to gun with a Texas to reset and keep him occupied so we could cap out. I have attacked a secondary loaded Massachusetts with an Asashio deep in reload with my guns to make sure our Atlanta could break contact and get away later kill said Mass from behind an island.

Part of any DD players job in-game is to get stuck in and make a difference, even at the cost of you being blown to bits. Now that is not ALL of what should do, hence YOLO should be used when needed and not every game.  

4 hours ago, enderland07 said:

Staying alive is one of the most important things you can do as a DD in this game.

Not yolo rushing.

@enderland07 is right. The other part of the DD job, IMO, is staying alive. I would argue DD's become more dangerous the longer the match runs. Able to cap empty sides of the map, ambush wounded solo BB's, spot, and screen for your own team. And, whenever possible, kill the red team DD's or light them up like a Christmas tree for your team to hammer.

If you can, IMO,  find that balance, between staying alive and knowing when to spend it the DD class can be an exciting, impactful, and fun class to play.  :Smile_izmena:

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8 hours ago, Navalpride33 said:

lets see here, I assume

  • you got the spotting ribbon
  • plus majority  DMG on 2 BBs about 90k DMG roughly
  • 2 kill
  • Honorable reward
  • The green ribbon for defending the caps.

All considering, you want to be rewarded more/extra because your DMG (in battle like your teammates) was in a role of gambling/high risk.

That is like me saying as a cruiser cpt. "Ok guys, I took down all the DDs, I should be rewarded  more for doing my duties in a dangerous fashion."

IMO, I really dont think that is going to fly.

 

 

If I prevent two capital ships from living and capping early on, whilst others are busy hiding behind islands, I would like more of a reward, yes.

I don't believe that I got enough XP for my actions basically, compared to others who I believe didn't do as much to impact the outcome of the game.

 

8 hours ago, enderland07 said:

Staying alive is one of the most important things you can do as a DD in this game.

Not yolo rushing.

I agree. But that depends on what you're piloting and what your team is doing as well.

 

8 hours ago, awiggin said:

So, what I got from this is that you want scoring changed because you believe your personal play style should be rewarded better?:Smile_amazed:

Pretty much, but it's a difficult matter to address.

My playstyle is aggressive, but I like to stealth torp. Not possible in the Nicholas though, since my detection range is outside my torp range.

 

7 hours ago, centarina said:

naw,  any DD that YOLO to  gurgle should get a special ribbon.  :D    not that there is anything wrong with YOLOing  :cap_haloween:

Sometimes you're forced into the situation, if you don't wish to lose the round.
 

7 hours ago, AJTP89 said:

I'm not sure what you're trying to say. You got rewarded for doing damage and capping. But you think you should get more because you did it early? 

I'd say that you might have been better off staying back, torping, harassing and spotting those BBs. Because late game, your DD is even more important. It worked that time, but usually YOLO rushes end up with a trade at best. Then the team is down a DD, which are often crucial later in the game.

 As I'm learning cruisers, I've found the trick is maintaining health for the late game, while still being effective. Because at the beginning you can do some long range harassing, chase some DDs off with radar. But if you avoid getting focused, once the reds are thinned a bit and on low health, then you flourish. Cruisers excel at melting down lower health isolated ships, or zoning out and then chasing and cornering a DD. But those things can't be done in front of a lot of enemy ships. So while an early YOLO might net you a DD (yay) at best you lose so much HP as to be ineffective the rest of the game. You cost your team your more valuable firepower in the endgame. Some times games are decided in the first few minutes. Usually though there is a point where the initial rushes have been stopped, everyone regroups, repairs, and the second round starts. It can be a subtle change, but the team whose ships are best in position to start picking apart the other's isolated ships wins that one. And it is that round which often shifts the battle firmly to one side due to map control. Hanging back is bad, but so is yoloing in. Like most things in life, the ideal is somewhere in between.

I'd like a bigger reward for stopping a cap rush by the enemy, yes. Anyone can go stop it, however they have to put themselves in danger. Which many aren't willing to do.

I agree that DDs are important throughout, however this was a smaller map in a nicholas and it's very hard for me to stealth torp in it, or roll around undetected in general. YOLOing (well, using an island as cover) to take out 2 BBs is better than sitting back hoping to get long-distance hits, whilst being spotted anyhow.

My PR for the Nicholas is 2 519 so I don't think that I'm doing anything wrong, compared to the majority of players.

 

4 hours ago, DolphinPrincess said:

And that's exactly how you are supposed to play DDs, not charge in and die.

Except the Nicholas, which I'd played that round, does not have high camo values. When I have stealth, I use it. No camo, no captain skill, no stealth.

 

3 hours ago, BTed72 said:

As a DD main I will admit there is times when to contribute to team victory the "YOLO" is needed. I have had my Kamikaze go gun to gun with a Texas to reset and keep him occupied so we could cap out. I have attacked a secondary loaded Massachusetts with an Asashio deep in reload with my guns to make sure our Atlanta could break contact and get away later kill said Mass from behind an island.

Part of any DD players job in-game is to get stuck in and make a difference, even at the cost of you being blown to bits. Now that is not ALL of what should do, hence YOLO should be used when needed and not every game.  

@enderland07 is right. The other part of the DD job, IMO, is staying alive. I would argue DD's become more dangerous the longer the match runs. Able to cap empty sides of the map, ambush wounded solo BB's, spot, and screen for your own team. And, whenever possible, kill the red team DD's or light them up like a Christmas tree for your team to hammer.

 If you can, IMO,  find that balance, between staying alive and knowing when to spend it the DD class can be an exciting, impactful, and fun class to play.  :Smile_izmena:

Exactly this. As a DD, sometimes you are forced into certain actions at the cost of your life. If you want to win, anyhow. So that game-changing behaviour should be rewarded. Not sure how to go about that though.

And about the second part, I also agree. DDs are powerful if kept alive for extended periods of time. Especially if a group of ships decides to chase one down whilst getting torped and the rest of the DD's team are busy putting in damage.

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I agree the Nicolas favors an agressive play style. Is not the WIN that you helped achieve early on the reward?

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Lower tier DDs tend to be a different story but in general with DDs your primary task should be long term survival with the focus being on cap control, spotting and taking intelligent engagements (IE stealth torping, utilizing smokes to follow up on DCP'd targets or vs other DDs, not opening fire in the open vs non-DDs, etc.) 

In general, you don't want to ever trade your DD for any other ship given its importance. From playing the Nicholas on an EU account without CE in T7 I understand its a different kind of struggle for lower tier that isn't always the most rewarding, but if you focus on staying alive with measured aggression you can achieve a long term game impact that will ultimately be more effective. 

If you focus on countering enemy DDs and capping first and foremost then moving to other targets (when possible) you can consistently top the scoreboard.

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Also, remember that early capping is generally not a real need.  Thus, preventing a cap isn't usually that valuable until late game.

That's what many people don't understand - taking a cap is not in any way worth a serious risk to your ship, until you get to the point of the game where the points lead matters more than the number of ships living.

Killing a ship is equivalent to about 2 minutes of holding a cap, in most cases. 

So I see no need to encourage people to cap, defend caps, or take caps beyond what is currently given, ESPECIALLY in the early game.

 

In fact, what is the FAR better strategy in the early game is to bait the opponent team into hazarding their ships for the "reward" of that cap; that is, force them into a VERY uneven trade of HP when they see the "opportunity" to take a cap.  The cap is the bait, not the goal. The goal is to kill or maim them, and losing the cap is perfectly acceptable for that trade. Because even after they have the cap, so long as your team trades even with damage, you sink them faster than they do you, and your side can then leisurely take (and hold) the cap far longer after the enemy is driven off or sunk. 

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