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Rgtx1121

The Iowa is making me poor!

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I have been playing around with different tech trees for a while now, and I have advanced to T9 in two very different tiers, the American BB line, and Russian CA line. I used quite a bit of free XP to research the Iowa, and had to buy some credits, and sell a few port queens to buy the Iowa. Much to my disappointment, I do not find myself enjoying the Iowa as much as I enjoyed the NC. On top of that, the Iowa is driving me into the poor house. Even with economic signals (Zulu, India Bravo, and a ranked battle flag) , I get around 80-90k per match, even with a win. In my Donskoi, I can easily get over 120k credits. This has diminished my ambition to grind the Iowa up to the Montana.

What is the biggest factor in the disparity between my Donskoi and Iowa economically? I understand a BB has a higher service cost than a CA, but it seems to be a bit skewed. 

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Please don't take this the wrong way, but I'm going to be very honest with you, honest, direct and without any nuance.

Your performance in Iowa is ... pretty poor. You're averaging 40k dpg in your Iowa. That's barely half of your hitpoints, assuming a fully upgraded Iowa. Your Donskoi on the other hand, averages 42k, which is slightly less than your own hitpoints. Battleships live to do damage, and tank damage for their team. You really should be doing double your current DPG in Iowa in order to start making even, and even then you're likely to lose money.

In the simplest and most direct words possible, you're not even close to carrying your own weight in your Iowa, while your Donskoi play is more or less on par of what is expected from average players.

Again, no personal attack intended.

<Edit> You're a below average player. There's nothing wrong with that. You have at least a measure of skill, considering your performance in Donskoi. Maybe cruisers are more your thing than battleships? But you'd do well to try and lean how to Iowa better. Unfortunately I'm not much use here since I don't get along with her either, but she's a different beast from North Carolina, and can't be played the same way. Ask around for tips on how to Iowa, or look online on youtube for guides; I'm sure there are some out there.

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22 minutes ago, Lert said:

Please don't take this the wrong way, but I'm going to be very honest with you, honest, direct and without any nuance.

Your performance in Iowa is ... pretty poor. You're averaging 40k dpg in your Iowa. That's barely half of your hitpoints, assuming a fully upgraded Iowa. Your Donskoi on the other hand, averages 42k, which is slightly less than your own hitpoints. Battleships live to do damage, and tank damage for their team. You really should be doing double your current DPG in Iowa in order to start making even, and even then you're likely to lose money.

In the simplest and most direct words possible, you're not even close to carrying your own weight in your Iowa, while your Donskoi play is more or less on par of what is expected from average players.

Again, no personal attack intended.

<Edit> You're a below average player. There's nothing wrong with that. You have at least a measure of skill, considering your performance in Donskoi. Maybe cruisers are more your thing than battleships? But you'd do well to try and lean how to Iowa better. Unfortunately I'm not much use here since I don't get along with her either, but she's a different beast from North Carolina, and can't be played the same way. Ask around for tips on how to Iowa, or look online on youtube for guides; I'm sure there are some out there.

What is your opinion on cruisers?  given how battleships can recover their hit points for a cruiser to carry its own weight at mid tiers does it have to shoot more than its own hit points to be considered pulling its own weight?

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2 minutes ago, SJ_Sailer said:

What is your opinion on cruisers?  given how battleships can recover their hit points for a cruiser to carry its own weight at mid tiers does it have to shoot more than its own hit points to be considered pulling its own weight?

Yes, ideally you should do more than your own hit points, maybe 2-4x your hit points. Its easier than bb because fire damage is easier to achieve than pure AP penetration.  Of course every battle is different and some times zoning out the map from enemy dd can be valuable despite doing very little damage.

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30 minutes ago, Lert said:

Please don't take this the wrong way, but I'm going to be very honest with you, honest, direct and without any nuance.

Your performance in Iowa is ... pretty poor. You're averaging 40k dpg in your Iowa. That's barely half of your hitpoints, assuming a fully upgraded Iowa. Your Donskoi on the other hand, averages 42k, which is slightly less than your own hitpoints. Battleships live to do damage, and tank damage for their team. You really should be doing double your current DPG in Iowa in order to start making even, and even then you're likely to lose money.

In the simplest and most direct words possible, you're not even close to carrying your own weight in your Iowa, while your Donskoi play is more or less on par of what is expected from average players.

Again, no personal attack intended.

<Edit> You're a below average player. There's nothing wrong with that. You have at least a measure of skill, considering your performance in Donskoi. Maybe cruisers are more your thing than battleships? But you'd do well to try and lean how to Iowa better. Unfortunately I'm not much use here since I don't get along with her either, but she's a different beast from North Carolina, and can't be played the same way. Ask around for tips on how to Iowa, or look online on youtube for guides; I'm sure there are some out there.

This is actually one of the best replies I have gotten from a post on this forum. No personal insult taken on my end.

I fully acknowledge that I am not a good Iowa player. I have looked around on tips to improve, but I have not found anything that has clicked for me yet. I am a below average player, but getting better. I used to be a complete Potato. CA's may in fact be my "thing", I have a personal interest and affiliation with US Battleships (I have spent many days walking the deck of the Texas. It's a meaningful place to me). 

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2 minutes ago, mixmkz said:

Yes, ideally you should do more than your own hit points, maybe 2-4x your hit points. Its easier than bb because fire damage is easier to achieve than pure AP penetration.  Of course every battle is different and some times zoning out the map from enemy dd can be valuable despite doing very little damage.

Well then I am not carrying my own weight.  I can only get 40 to 50 k in an Helena. More sometimes but anything over 40 is a good battle for me.  Not much more than that in a Salem either.

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I know this isn't what you asked but, I don't suggest buying credits, ever.  That is real money thrown at a problem to solve it but only temporarily.  If you are going to spend money to solve a credit problem, I very much advise premium ships or premium camos for ships you play often.  If you are going to play a lot, premium time.

Ships and camos are permanent solutions.   The value doesn't disappear once the credits are spent, they will always be there and all you have to do is play them to earn more credits.

In addition, I wouldn't sell ships that are above T4.  T5+ ships can all come in very useful from time to time. Not to mention events like the snow flake event where the number of ships you have in your port can really pay off. If you sell them and then ever buy them back again in the future, as in ever, you took a net loss. This makes the problem worse because they sell for less than you paid for them to begin with.

Finally, I really suggest saving FXP for FXP only ships.  These are free to you premium ships (that will solve your credit problem).  Using FXP to jump the line not only wastes this resource, you end up in higher tier ships you don't have any experience with.

Grinding down a line "the long way", really does pay off in the end.
 

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4 minutes ago, SJ_Sailer said:

Well then I am not carrying my own weight.  I can only get 40 to 50 k in an Helena. More sometimes but anything over 40 is a good battle for me.  Not much more than that in a Salem either.

Eh, I disagree with Mixmkr. Damage is an important stat to be sure, but even for BBs, where it is probably the stat to look at, the quality of damage matters. If you're getting 40 to 50K in the Helena in, for example, fires on a BB, that is a pretty poor game. If, on the other hand, that is all done to DDs, you just had a pretty rockstar game. Cruisers and DDs tend to go after targets of opportunity and go for utility, so you really should look at all your post battle stats, plane damage, spotting damage, what have you.

If you want to see how you stack up against other players, I recommend the site Warship Numbers. They have averages for every ship, and although it's not perfect (more exclusive ships have inflated stats because of the players in them, the averages are lifetime and don't factor in nerfs and buffs, ect.) you can compare your stats to the averages to see how you stack up. (Just make sure to pick your server, it's set to EU by default.)  

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51 minutes ago, Rgtx1121 said:

I have been playing around with different tech trees for a while now, and I have advanced to T9 in two very different tiers, the American BB line, and Russian CA line. I used quite a bit of free XP to research the Iowa, and had to buy some credits, and sell a few port queens to buy the Iowa. Much to my disappointment, I do not find myself enjoying the Iowa as much as I enjoyed the NC. On top of that, the Iowa is driving me into the poor house. Even with economic signals (Zulu, India Bravo, and a ranked battle flag) , I get around 80-90k per match, even with a win. In my Donskoi, I can easily get over 120k credits. This has diminished my ambition to grind the Iowa up to the Montana.

What is the biggest factor in the disparity between my Donskoi and Iowa economically? I understand a BB has a higher service cost than a CA, but it seems to be a bit skewed. 

T9 is a tough tier. Do you spend 4000 doubloons on a permanent camo, -20% service cost, for a ship that is just a stepping stone to T10 or not? A tech tree BB has a 120,000 service cost plus ammo, 250 credits for each 16" shell the Iowa fires.

It appears you scratched together the funds to get the Iowa. My suggestion is to play a lot of operations to build up your credits. Also operations are very good for gunnery training.

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I don't have the Iowa, but do have the Missouri, which plays the same.  I find it a fun ship.  It is quite agile, but you really need to be in mid range combat to maximize its efficiency.  Don't try to stay at long range, and don't try to brawl.  It's agility makes it like a big cruiser with big guns.  I have punched a lot of ships in the teeth with it, but have also gotten punched in the face because I got myself into some tough situations too quickly.  The beauty of this ship is that you can adjust quickly on the battlefield.  It isn't a sluggish as some of the other T9s.

If you can get some premium time, it can really help with the credit earning in all ships.  Only put premium camo on ships you know you are going to be playing long after you grind to the next one.  I'm not sure the Iowa is that ship, since the Montana is next in line.

Edited by Murcc

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42 minutes ago, SJ_Sailer said:

Well then I am not carrying my own weight.  I can only get 40 to 50 k in an Helena. More sometimes but anything over 40 is a good battle for me.  Not much more than that in a Salem either.

There are a few points to address, and I will also take into consideration what munin said too.  If most of your 40k avg damage comes from dd, you would be killing at least 2 dd per game, then your win rate should be pretty awesome.  But I am guessing that is not the case.

I can say to get more damage, you can keep an eye out on when bb dcp their fire and you set them on a permanent fire, but that requires good positioning to be ready for those shots yourself---which ultimately comes down to this point as a cruiser:

Unlike bb, you rarely rely on alpha strikes (for the most case), which means to carry your weight your guns needs to be firing almost constantly.  You barrel should be melted by the time the battle is over.  To keep firing without dying requires knowing where to go so you are less likely to be focused down, or is only able to receive fire from 1-2 enemy at a time.  This is what separate the really good players from the average.

Despite being "easy" to get damage from bb on fire, all damage is important.  Yes, it is important to kill dd. But keeping a bb on permanent fire all game means you deny their bb the ability to heal and to push. So all damage is important... if you go after bb specifically just make sure they dont get off the hook after losing half their hp, only to come back nearly full hp 3 mins later.

Edited by mixmkz

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If you haven't done it already, you MUST get that last upgrade, the Artillery Plotting Room Mod 2. 

When I first got Iowa, I didn't put on all the upgrades and man, I could not hit the broad side of a barn with those guns without that last upgrade...it gives you 11% less dispersion and you'll need it badly.

I've only had 6 games in Iowa, and my avg damage is ridiculously low in it, too. Losing lots of credits when playing it, but that's the way it goes in tiers 9 and 10. Bad games kick your butt with loss of credits.

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Just hold W and charge into fire while blasting away :Smile_izmena::Smile_izmena:!!!

(Also a bad Iowa player but thats how I played my NC and Mass and it seems to work for them) 

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Thank you everyone that contributed to this conversation. I found it extremely informative, and civil. 

Again thank you.

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3 hours ago, Rgtx1121 said:

I have been playing around with different tech trees for a while now, and I have advanced to T9 in two very different tiers, the American BB line, and Russian CA line. I used quite a bit of free XP to research the Iowa, and had to buy some credits, and sell a few port queens to buy the Iowa. Much to my disappointment, I do not find myself enjoying the Iowa as much as I enjoyed the NC. On top of that, the Iowa is driving me into the poor house. Even with economic signals (Zulu, India Bravo, and a ranked battle flag) , I get around 80-90k per match, even with a win. In my Donskoi, I can easily get over 120k credits. This has diminished my ambition to grind the Iowa up to the Montana.

What is the biggest factor in the disparity between my Donskoi and Iowa economically? I understand a BB has a higher service cost than a CA, but it seems to be a bit skewed. 

Your hit rate is pretty low. Either you are shooting from too far away or you need to watch some tutorials on aiming.

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2 hours ago, Cuesta_Rey said:

If you haven't done it already, you MUST get that last upgrade, the Artillery Plotting Room Mod 2.

Yes, and you'll see why Iowa's guns are an improvement from the NC's. Better penetration.

OP, I'll give you some basic tips on the Iowa because I play and enjoy her myself, sure. I used to be in your situation until I practiced more and read some guides to improve myself.

1. Never expose your broadside to the enemy, or if you have to do so, make sure you're not getting shot at. The Iowa's citadel is a lot more vulnerable than the NC's as it's exposed instead of being positioned below the waterline like the latter's. This also means that you can't really brawl; otherwise you'll take a lot of damage and die before you finish off your opponent.

2. Bow tank and angle against your opponents. While Iowa has an exposed citadel, it does have improved armor, allowing it to bounce more shells when angled. Angle correctly and you'll find that shells will have a hard time damaging you. In contrast, you'll have a hard time penetrating angled targets yourself, so choose your targets carefully.

3. Take advantage of your stealth and speed to position yourself in an advantageous spot. With 33 knots and a minimum detection range of 12.7 km, you can maneuver yourself without getting spotted and without fear of being citadeled. Even if there are CVs around, you won't be on the top of their target list because of your AA suite. Make sure to choose a spot where you won't get crossfired from your side and can bow tank/lob shells over islands without getting detected. Additionally, you can use your stealth to flank to opponents' side to score some citadels. Don't get too close, as Iowa isn't designed for brawling. Mid-long ramge engagements are best; she's more of a sniper than a brawler.

Make sure to also check out the Iowa's wiki page and LittleWhiteMouse's guide on the Iowa; these really helped me.

Also, please correct me if I'm wrong, because I know some of the points are debatable.

Edited by destawaits
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5 hours ago, Rgtx1121 said:

I have been playing around with different tech trees for a while now, and I have advanced to T9 in two very different tiers, the American BB line, and Russian CA line. I used quite a bit of free XP to research the Iowa, and had to buy some credits, and sell a few port queens to buy the Iowa. Much to my disappointment, I do not find myself enjoying the Iowa as much as I enjoyed the NC. On top of that, the Iowa is driving me into the poor house. Even with economic signals (Zulu, India Bravo, and a ranked battle flag) , I get around 80-90k per match, even with a win. In my Donskoi, I can easily get over 120k credits. This has diminished my ambition to grind the Iowa up to the Montana.

What is the biggest factor in the disparity between my Donskoi and Iowa economically? I understand a BB has a higher service cost than a CA, but it seems to be a bit skewed. 

I despised the Iowa, never did well in her but love the crap out of the Missouri (lately Im loving the Alaska) and its not because of the rarely used radar....go figure. Perhaps it just took me a few hundred games to wrap my head around how best to play it.

First off, if you can use the stern gun you are likely in trouble. Any BB in your rear turret firing arc will punish you with AP, even cruisers will shred you! This is key to be able to tank damage and thus live longer. Only expose your stern gun if you think you can squeak off a shot and get your stern tucked in again before you get hit.

Learn to drive WELL. Iowa excels on a push with support, especially with islands to hug, sprint between islands and camp it up alongside the island. Then sprint to the next island.

Use concealment to break contact, try to keep ships at least 12km away from you unless you are pushing up. The Iowas have great legs, dont be afraid to run away, go dark and re-position.

The 16" guns pack a wallop when using HE, dont be afraid to fling the odd shot of HE at something, HE has its uses vs bow on Musashi, T10 BB's and DD's.

Consider yourself a fat arsed cruiser with an orbital turning radius, never, EVER expose your side or you can kiss said far [edited] good bye.

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1 hour ago, destawaits said:

Yes, and you'll see why Iowa's guns are an improvement from the NC's. Better penetration.

OP, I'll give you some basic tips on the Iowa because I play and enjoy her myself, sure. I used to be in your situation until I practiced more and read some guides to improve myself.

1. Never expose your broadside to the enemy, or if you have to do so, make sure you're not getting shot at. The Iowa's citadel is a lot more vulnerable than the NC's as it's exposed instead of being positioned below the waterline like the latter's. This also means that you can't really brawl; otherwise you'll take a lot of damage and die before you finish off your opponent.

2. Bow tank and angle against your opponents. While Iowa has an exposed citadel, it does have improved armor, allowing it to bounce more shells when angled. Angle correctly and you'll find that shells will have a hard time damaging you. In contrast, you'll have a hard time penetrating angled targets yourself, so choose your targets carefully.

3. Take advantage of your stealth and speed to position yourself in an advantageous spot. With 33 knots and a minimum detection range of 12.7 km, you can maneuver yourself without getting spotted and without fear of being citadeled. Even if there are CVs around, you won't be on the top of their target list because of your AA suite. Make sure to choose a spot where you won't get crossfired from your side and can bow tank/lob shells over islands without getting detected. Additionally, you can use your stealth to flank to opponents' side to score some citadels. Don't get too close, as Iowa isn't designed for brawling. Mid-long ramge engagements are best; she's more of a sniper than a brawler.

Make sure to also check out the Iowa's wiki page and LittleWhiteMouse's guide on the Iowa; these really helped me.

Also, please correct me if I'm wrong, because I know some of the points are debatable.

Hey, Just wanted to thank you for this.  I got the IOWA a while ago and she's been pretty much parked.  I did well in my NC but this was just so different and EXPEN$IVE.  I'm going to try her again after dinner.  Thanks Again

 

Col Out

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Regarding your damage numbers, are you using the dynamic crosshair, and do you know about shell travel time and how that relates to your targeting reticule?

The dynamic crosshair scales with zoom, and it's what you should be using.  If you assume your target is going 30 knots, and the shell travel time shown in the bottom left of the crosshair says 8 seconds, you aim for the 8th tickmark on the reticule.  I was a few hundred battles in before I learned this, and before that had just been essentially winging it.  

 

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1 hour ago, DouglasMacAwful said:

Regarding your damage numbers, are you using the dynamic crosshair, and do you know about shell travel time and how that relates to your targeting reticule?

The dynamic crosshair scales with zoom, and it's what you should be using.  If you assume your target is going 30 knots, and the shell travel time shown in the bottom left of the crosshair says 8 seconds, you aim for the 8th tickmark on the reticule.  I was a few hundred battles in before I learned this, and before that had just been essentially winging it.  

 

Hmm. I don't really pay attention to the time the salvo gets to the target; rather, I focus in the distance. Managing different shell velocities just comes with practice.

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1 hour ago, DouglasMacAwful said:

Regarding your damage numbers, are you using the dynamic crosshair, and do you know about shell travel time and how that relates to your targeting reticule?

The dynamic crosshair scales with zoom, and it's what you should be using.  If you assume your target is going 30 knots, and the shell travel time shown in the bottom left of the crosshair says 8 seconds, you aim for the 8th tickmark on the reticule.  I was a few hundred battles in before I learned this, and before that had just been essentially winging it.  

 

I swear if this helps me aim better, I'll buy you freaking premium time lol part of the reason i'm so bad in many ships is that I can't hit targets at range.

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One of the things that's pretty hard to pick up with the US BB's are those lofty shell arcs. Iowa seems to always catch people with this for some reason, A shame cause shes definitely one of those ships that bring people into the game.

To be honest, sometimes I think her speed is actually the thing that can get her in to trouble. You can keep pace with a lot of cruisers, however your not as sneaky as many of those same cruisers. Generally you never want to be the first guy spotted, Iowa has some good armor but it doesn't work if your getting shot at from almost every direction. Couple that up with her mammoth turning circle of 970 meters, quite a step up from the North Carolina's 760 meter one. Means a lot of times you can get yourself into trouble and really have a tough act trying to get yourself back out of it.

Iowa, like the North Carolina before her excels at team play. You wan't to roll with your team, If your out in left field trying to shoot targets at 20km with the IJN BBs your doing it wrong, the only thing you might hit with those shell arcs is the moon. Then again, shes not really the kinda BB you want to push into brawling range with like say a Bismark. USN BBs have pretty unremarkable torpedo protection, so if you get torped its going to hurt. Likewise you don't have a German Turtle-back to protect shots from driving strait into your citadel if you lets someone shoot into your flat broadside. Like many of the 16" USN BBs her comfort zone seems to be around 10k-16k. Besides that, Unless your confident nothing is aiming at you that can pen your citadel. Shes not a ship you should spend large amounts of time broadside in, Neither is the North Carolina honestly, but for some reason the NC gets away with it a bit more then the Iowa might.

My immediate suggestion, is don't go to flank speed initially, you want to see how your teams going to deploy and adjust your position accordingly, you can always speed up if you need to. She's got the speed to get you to were you want to be if its required.

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If you are buying credits for money and selling off ships to obtain a new tech-tree ship and blowing FXP on it, it's a sign you're not ready for that ship yet.

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I liked every USN BB in the line...except the Iowa. I was so wretchedly bad in it that I nearly quit the grind. Some ships just don't agree with some people I guess.

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18 hours ago, DouglasMacAwful said:

Regarding your damage numbers, are you using the dynamic crosshair, and do you know about shell travel time and how that relates to your targeting reticule?

The dynamic crosshair scales with zoom, and it's what you should be using.  If you assume your target is going 30 knots, and the shell travel time shown in the bottom left of the crosshair says 8 seconds, you aim for the 8th tickmark on the reticule.  I was a few hundred battles in before I learned this, and before that had just been essentially winging it.  

 

That's how that works? Jesus christ, over 1,000 battles and I had no idea how that was supposed to go.

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