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Wows_Nightly_News

Ship proposal: The Tillmans

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I know I, as much as you, have waited for these ships with baited breath. And without further ado, here is my proposal for the Tillmans. Our story begins with this guy:  South Carolina Governor, US Senator, and professional all around D-Bag Benjamin Ryan Tillman.

image.thumb.png.e2a22a0a51e36dc4673cf83ae2f4d6c2.png

yes he only had one eye. moving on.

Tillman hated boats and most things really. But we really can't talk about Tillman's actions on this forum without a ban. Anyway, as a boat hater, he was of course assigned to the naval appropriations committee while serving as a senator. There, he starved the US navy of any funding that would not be spent in South Carolina. Since Dreadnought Battleship were all the rage, the US Navy spent most of the money they could fish from their couch cushions on those. Tillman shot down many ideas for cruisers, battlecruisers, and "torpedo boat destroyers" as they were then called. Including my personal favorite un-built ship, this seven stack "super armored" battlecruiser that measures in at 4.16 repeating standardized Texas Unit of measures or 1250 feet for the rest of you or 416.6 repeating meters for the other rest of you.

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You were too beautiful for this world. 

Anyhow, the US Navy ended up short on battlecruisers, regular cruisers, and "destroyers" (as they were eventually called due to the demands of brevity)

This brings us to the flush deck destroyers. The flush deckers were an attempt (and a rather successful one) to make up the USAs rather alarming lack of support vessels, that eventually capitalized on America's neutrality in WWI. Relevant to today's discussion was a class of flush deck destroyers called the Wickes class (seen in game). These were started toward the end of WW1 and they built a lot of flush deckers to exploit Europe's economic downturn. So they started to run out of important naval figures to name them after. So when Ben Tillman's health began to fail, they decided to name a Wickes class after the man who protected America from acquiring a first rate navy. Enter the first USS Tillman: DD-135.

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Isn't she gorgeous and 100% the reason you clicked here?

After commissioning in 1921 USS Tillman puttered around mostly wondering why America had even built so many destroyers in the first place before being decommissioned a little over a year latter. There USS Tillman  slept until 1930 when she started training duties. Eventually she participated in fleet exercises focused on amphibious operations, which would prove prudent. After that she was assigned to patrol duty and eventually seceded to the Royal Navy in 1939 thanks to the actions of a man her namesake would have much liked to meet if he wasn't German. Under the Royal Navy, she dutifully served as HMS Wells where she received battle damage against some really fast wind and retired in '45.

But this created an opening in the USN  for the name "Tillman", and of course, being America, a bigger budget sequel was in order. Enter the second USS Tillman: DD-641

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Now this one actually does look pretty good.

Tillman was Gleaves class destroyer, which some of you may recognize as fancy way to say "Hsien Yang" or "Benson." Anyway, this USS Tillman actually made a name for herself beating up the Vichy French and even sank a small baguette boat. Once the French surrendered again (I had to), she would spend the next phase of the war trying to make the Italians very sad and when they gave up, the Germans. And here would be USS Tilman's finest hour. Where she would encounter wave after wave of German dive bombers carrying the dreaded Fritz X and torpedoes (and would incidentally make the Italians very sad again).

USS Tillman was escorting a convoy and Lufwaffle pilots decided it would be beneficial if she was no more and targeted her first. Tillman spectacularly shot down one of the Fritz Xs (what the hell Roma?)  and dodged the rest (no comment) of the guided missiles before also just dodging the follow on torpedo strikes (ok, maybe a little comment) and driving the bombers away from the convoy. After Germany followed in the footsteps of their Vichy French and their Italian forerunners by surrendering, Tillman was prepared for action the Pacific. There, she accepted several Japanese military surrenders after Japan did the sensible thing received the product of the fifth most hazardous thing named for Manhattan.

Sadly USS Tillman was not selected for preservation or getting a cool Asian Tattoo and was scrapped in '72. Unfortunalty Quite fortunately this ended the legacy of the name USS Tillman. 

My proposal is that Lil' Tillman should be a tier 3 DD with near Wickes stats, but realistically a little worse because we all know the type of player who purchases tier 3 premiums.

Big bag Tillman should be tier 8. You know DD players would pay out the nose and accept many stat penalties for the ability to shoot down rockets and bombs, WG. Make it happen.

And thus concludes the proposal for obviously what you clicked here for and what I wrote after last night's bender. 

 

 

 

Edited by Wows_Nightly_News
I should mentioned Ben Tillman once requested "the biggest battleship you can throw at me" and the navy deisghned the "maximum battleships" on a lark. Collectivly these desighns are sometimes refered to as "the Tillmans." But who wants to read about that?
  • Cool 3
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57 minutes ago, Wows_Nightly_News said:

here, she accepted several Japanese military surrenders after Japan did the sensible thing received the product of the fifth most hazardous thing named for Manhattan.

What are the other four, in order?

57 minutes ago, Wows_Nightly_News said:

the dreaded Ftitz X

You may want to correct this. 

 

58 minutes ago, Wows_Nightly_News said:

thanks to the actions of a man her namesake would have much liked to meet if he wasn't a Kraut.

Oh dear. 

59 minutes ago, Wows_Nightly_News said:

obviously what you clicked here for

Well actually no, but...

59 minutes ago, Wows_Nightly_News said:

what I wrote after last night's bender. 

You do, as always, have a wonderful and entertaining turn of phrase.

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Nice clickbait, I was expecting something about the ridiculous Tillman BB "designs" :Smile_trollface:

59 minutes ago, Poharan said:

Rather see Laffey if we're getting a premium "Benson", but I like the idea of the T3. 

Laffey was an Allen M Sumner-class DD, basically improved Fletchers and would belong in Tier IX.

 

Anyways, Tier VIII Tillman would be quite different from Benson because Tillman was reduced to 1 torpedo launcher for the sake of other weapons.  Probably could use a gimmick like Torp Reload Booster or Repair Party.  But Kidd in Tier VIII has Repair Party already.  Hell, probably unlimited Defensive Fire charges like Atlanta maybe?  Something can be easily worked out. 

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14 minutes ago, Daniel_Allan_Clark said:

Nice bait. 10/10

Enjoyed it.

More low tier premiums!

20 minutes ago, HazeGrayUnderway said:

Nice clickbait, I was expecting something about the ridiculous Tillman BB "designs" :Smile_trollface:

 

image.thumb.png.838b37e900e2c9489260e077054c2166.png

20 minutes ago, HazeGrayUnderway said:

 

 

 

Anyways, Tier VIII Tillman would be quite different from Benson because Tillman was reduced to 1 torpedo launcher for the sake of other weapons.  Probably could use a gimmick like Torp Reload Booster or Repair Party.  But Kidd in Tier VIII has Repair Party already.  Hell, probably unlimited Defensive Fire charges like Atlanta maybe?  Something can be easily worked out. 

She also had one gun barrel removed (or more accurately never there at all, the latter Gleaves were all AA boats.) If WG did seriously want to add Tillman II, unlimited Def AA, torpedo reload booster (or maybe just a really good torpedo set), and maybe the ability to mount a really fast short lasting speed boost for dodging purposes wouldn't be a bad starting point.

I think Lil' Tillman (which should be her in game name) would make a great April Fool's gift.

 

Edited by Wows_Nightly_News

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58 minutes ago, Ensign_Cthulhu said:

What are the other four, in order?

I due time.

58 minutes ago, Ensign_Cthulhu said:

You may want to correct this.

Thank you.

59 minutes ago, Ensign_Cthulhu said:

Oh dear.

Switched it to a less harsh word, which was obviously the worst thing about that sentence.

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Just now, Wows_Nightly_News said:

Switched it to a less harsh word, which was obviously the worst thing about that sentence.

I was more saying "Oh dear" to the implication that Mr Tillman might have got along well with a certain gentleman who did not get into art school and was involved in some trouble involving a beer hall. I should have put a trollface or laugh emoji on it.

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48 minutes ago, HazeGrayUnderway said:

Nice clickbait, I was expecting something about the ridiculous Tillman BB "designs" :Smile_trollface:

Laffey was an Allen M Sumner-class DD, basically improved Fletchers and would belong in Tier IX.

 

Anyways, Tier VIII Tillman would be quite different from Benson because Tillman was reduced to 1 torpedo launcher for the sake of other weapons.  Probably could use a gimmick like Torp Reload Booster or Repair Party.  But Kidd in Tier VIII has Repair Party already.  Hell, probably unlimited Defensive Fire charges like Atlanta maybe?  Something can be easily worked out. 

DD-459

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1 hour ago, HazeGrayUnderway said:

Nice clickbait, I was expecting something about the ridiculous Tillman BB "designs" :Smile_trollface:

Laffey was an Allen M Sumner-class DD, basically improved Fletchers and would belong in Tier IX.

 

Anyways, Tier VIII Tillman would be quite different from Benson because Tillman was reduced to 1 torpedo launcher for the sake of other weapons.  Probably could use a gimmick like Torp Reload Booster or Repair Party.  But Kidd in Tier VIII has Repair Party already.  Hell, probably unlimited Defensive Fire charges like Atlanta maybe?  Something can be easily worked out. 

Original USS Laffey was a Benson Class DD.  The Allen Sumner Class was the second ship named the Medal of Honor Recipient. 

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1 minute ago, GrimmeReaper said:

Original USS Laffey was a Benson Class DD.  The Allen Sumner Class was the second ship named the Medal of Honor Recipient. 

18 minutes ago, Poharan said:

DD-459

It can get a little confusing when talking about ships of the same name, especially in WWII when sunken ships had their names reused almost immediately for moral purposes. Over on Reddit, somebody claimed they got a leak about a USS Laffey AZ captain which would indicate one of the Laffeys as a premium in the near future. I would imagine it would be the second Laffey since she is preserved, but you never know.

 

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1 hour ago, Ensign_Cthulhu said:

I was more saying "Oh dear" to the implication that Mr Tillman might have got along well with a certain gentleman who did not get into art school and was involved in some trouble involving a beer hall. I should have put a trollface or laugh emoji on it.

Benjamin "Pitchfork" Tillman was not a nice man even by the standards of the day. He got started in politics by being implicated in a famous series of murders. I don't want to start a flamewar (well mostly), but just go to his wikiquotes page to see the kind of person he was.

And he hated boats. We can all agree that's bad.

Edited by Wows_Nightly_News
I really need to get back to work, signing off for the day.

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Regarding Tillman, he was in the era of government where it strove to keep America from having a world class navy competing with the world's best.

A Survey of the American "Standard Type" Battleship from Navweaps.

"Certainly all navies operated under physical and fiscal constraints, but the US Navy was probably uniquely restricted compared to other powers during the dreadnought period. Where the British were most constrained by physical and the Japanese by economic limitations, the United States was essentially economically and physically unlimited with respect to battleship construction (outside the need to pass the Panama Canal and into Hampton Roads). All major constraints were actually exercised by the US Congress (through fiscal means) and the Executive Branch of the government through the Navy Secretary. In this case, the Navy Secretary was Josephus Daniels, a man of high ideals but possessing little naval knowledge or experience. Among those high ideals was temperance of habit, whether it was drinking alcohol, spending money or forms of aggrandizement - such as unrestrained growth of battleship designs. Thus the "Standard Type" was "artificially" constrained."

 

Tillman hated the US Navy, and he was made Secretary of the Navy.  When the USN wanted more BBs, he told them to f--k off, got fed up with it and basically said, "What's the biggest Battleship you can come up with?"

USN:  "Really?"

[Scribbles]

USN:  "Here you go."

[Hands over the "Maximum Battleship" designs]

Tillman:

Image result for buffy glare gif imgur

 

Reading about a tiny bit of US politics at the time and why USN Standard BBs came about is actually pretty funny.

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4 minutes ago, HazeGrayUnderway said:

Reading about a tiny bit of US politics at the time and why USN Standard BBs came about is actually pretty funny.

It's also helpful to be reminded that the current era is not the craziest our government leaders have been.  At least none of the members of congress are pistol-whipping each other... yet.

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3 hours ago, Wows_Nightly_News said:

It can get a little confusing when talking about ships of the same name, especially in WWII when sunken ships had their names reused almost immediately for moral purposes. Over on Reddit, somebody claimed they got a leak about a USS Laffey AZ captain which would indicate one of the Laffeys as a premium in the near future. I would imagine it would be the second Laffey since she is preserved, but you never know.

 

That would be a a T9 or T10 if they use the Sumner (which is what the Yueyang is modeled on I believe)  The AZ Lane Bote is a Benson, so my guess if they bring the ship in it will be a premium Benson Class.

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1 hour ago, GrimmeReaper said:

  The AZ Lane Bote is a Benson, so my guess if they bring the ship in it will be a premium Benson Class.

Learn something new everyday. I would imagine performance very similar to Benson based on Yukikaze and Montpelier

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2 hours ago, Brhinosaurus said:

It's also helpful to be reminded that the current era is not the craziest our government leaders have been.  At least none of the members of congress are pistol-whipping each other... yet.

https://history.house.gov/Historical-Highlights/1851-1900/A-Near-Gun-Fight-on-the-House-Floor/

The New York Times called the incident an “unfortunate and disgraceful scene,” even requesting a vote to see “who among the members are in favor of converting the Representative Chamber into a shooting-gallery, and who are not."

 

Edited by HazeGrayUnderway

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@Wows_Nightly_News  What I find particularly strange is the idea of a senator from a coastal state hating boats.   Every coastal state has some semblance of a fishing industry, and thus some constituents who depend on "boats" for a living.  So it strikes me a bizarre for a Senator of a coastal state to hate boats.  

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33 minutes ago, Crucis said:

@Wows_Nightly_News  What I find particularly strange is the idea of a senator from a coastal state hating boats.   Every coastal state has some semblance of a fishing industry, and thus some constituents who depend on "boats" for a living.  So it strikes me a bizarre for a Senator of a coastal state to hate boats.  

Comedic exaggeration aside, its more that Tillman hated ships, not watercraft in general. Without going into too much flamebait, Tillman had a huge chip on his shoulder with the rich and corporations, he saw both greedy southern aristocrats and their instance on owning slaves/ working with sharecroppers and northern corporate greed and their desire for cheap labor in the form of freedmen as a causing the civil war and many other problems with American society of the day. But that's all that needs to be said about that for now. Seriously this guy was like walking flamebait.

Anyhow, he viewed large ocean going vessels as a means of for the wealthy to further increase their wealth. He particularly hated the US navy as he thought navies had limited value defensively and saw the USN as means for rich shipyard owners to line their pockets with the hard earned money of farmers (he really liked farmers). He got on the Naval appropriations committee with the intent of sabotaging it. He did see the value of having a major naval dockyard in South Carolina. Thus the Charleston ship yard was born (and its first ship made was the first USS Tillman).  It's also not a coincidence that the first US navy dreadnought was named South Carolina.

Still his relationship with the USN was very rocky and the Maximum battleships, were as @HazeGrayUnderway pointed out, largely a joke at his expense although they did actually cause a number of useful breakthroughs that would have been incorporated into the more reasonable South Dakota and follow on designs.  Ironically when war in Europe broke out, Tillman and most of congresses suddenly saw an opportunity to kick some imperialist [edited]and flooded the navy was money, and some of them actually wanted the Maximum battleships built.It was not the be and not even the South Dakotas would be built. Tillman announced plans to retire after is successful 1914 senatorial election.  He would not live to see out the end of his term and died in 1918.

Edited by Wows_Nightly_News

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8 hours ago, Wows_Nightly_News said:

There, he starved the US navy of any funding that would not be spent in South Carolina. Since Dreadnought Battleship were all the rage, the US Navy spent most of the money they could fish from their couch cushions on those

quality light touch there. Well written!

best idea i take away from this, is the idea of a dd shooting down (guided) bombs. but we'd need guided munitions for that to happen (well we kind of already do with the cv rework, squadrons are basically piggybacking the code for cruise missiles.)

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17 hours ago, LoveBote said:

 but we'd need guided munitions for that to happen (well we kind of already do with the cv rework, squadrons are basically piggybacking the code for cruise missiles.)

Carp you're right it's only a matter of time before we have a guided missile cruiser...

Edited by Wows_Nightly_News

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Wow that thing was probably designed to have not only a bowling alley and a theater but a small shopping mall in it as well

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6 minutes ago, Siegewolf said:

Wow that thing was probably designed to have not only a bowling alley and a theater but a small shopping mall in it as well

Fun for the whole family!

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