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SJ_Sailer

State of CV's from a Tier X Newbie

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Hey Guys,

I just graduated from T7 to T10  (skipped 8 & 9) when I got enough coal to get a Salem.  So far 23 battles in and want to ask more experienced Tier X players about CV's.

Going in I saw the thread about the DM being completely useless against CV's because there is no short range AA covering 0-1km.  Because of that I speced into AA Module 1 (Survival of Mounts), skipped AA Module 2 (2 extra Flak did not seem worth it.), and got AA Module 3 (16% extra AA).  For captain skills, I have Manual AA, but still 1 point before I get BFT.  (Thinking of skipping AFT from what I hear.)

23 battles in and I rarely see any CV's in Tier X battles.  When I do see them I rarely see planes come my way, they seem to spend all their time on DD's and BB's.  I have shot down a few that came close but have not been hit by any yet.  To be honest my biggest issue with Tier X is being focus fired on by surface ships.  Sometimes no one cares anything about me, other times everyone is after me. 

So maybe I am just lucky and it is only a matter of time before I get slammed by an overpowered Tier X CV with an expert captain.  Are there any other Salem or DM random players out there?  Love to know what I should prepare for and expect as I work my way up to 100 Tier X battles.

Thanks.

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13 minutes ago, SJ_Sailer said:

Hey Guys,

I just graduated from T7 to T10  (skipped 8 & 9) when I got enough coal to get a Salem.  So far 23 battles in and want to ask more experienced Tier X players about CV's.

Going in I saw the thread about the DM being completely useless against CV's because there is no short range AA covering 0-1km.  Because of that I speced into AA Module 1 (Survival of Mounts), skipped AA Module 2 (2 extra Flak did not seem worth it.), and got AA Module 3 (16% extra AA).  For captain skills, I have Manual AA, but still 1 point before I get BFT.  (Thinking of skipping AFT from what I hear.)

23 battles in and I rarely see any CV's in Tier X battles.  When I do see them I rarely see planes come my way, they seem to spend all their time on DD's and BB's.  I have shot down a few that came close but have not been hit by any yet.  To be honest my biggest issue with Tier X is being focus fired on by surface ships.  Sometimes no one cares anything about me, other times everyone is after me. 

So maybe I am just lucky and it is only a matter of time before I get slammed by an overpowered Tier X CV with an expert captain.  Are there any other Salem or DM random players out there?  Love to know what I should prepare for and expect as I work my way up to 100 Tier X battles.

Thanks.

Unless a CV driver is good at the slingshot maneuver (and I am not) or has a I want to be out of planes at the end of the game death wish, usually will stay away from the USN and RN Cruisers till they get beat up a bit some of the AA stripped off.  The unicum players will do it.  It also depends on the tier of the CV.  T8 CVs (other than the Saipan (Mini-Me Midway) will stay away likely anyways cause the damage T10 AA can do to T8 planes.

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Think I remember you from another thread recently . If your liking tier 10 better get busy diversifying before you get bored of the Salem. As for cvs I just fought noobcv earlier in my DM he was in Midway hiding behind(as he should be) island 10km from me 10 mins in I had 100k plane damage and was dead ......with 20 planes down. now he didnt solo me but nevertheless hes the reason I died...... A 100k in just plane damage and 20 measly planes...Its DBs that kill you save you dfaa for them

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I do not have tier 10 cv. But tier 8 cruiser bot and on, + tier 10 bot bb kill all my planes very easy (Kaga/Saipan/gz)

Regards

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57 minutes ago, SJ_Sailer said:

Hey Guys,

I just graduated from T7 to T10  (skipped 8 & 9) when I got enough coal to get a Salem.  So far 23 battles in and want to ask more experienced Tier X players about CV's.

Going in I saw the thread about the DM being completely useless against CV's because there is no short range AA covering 0-1km.  Because of that I speced into AA Module 1 (Survival of Mounts), skipped AA Module 2 (2 extra Flak did not seem worth it.), and got AA Module 3 (16% extra AA).  For captain skills, I have Manual AA, but still 1 point before I get BFT.  (Thinking of skipping AFT from what I hear.)

23 battles in and I rarely see any CV's in Tier X battles.  When I do see them I rarely see planes come my way, they seem to spend all their time on DD's and BB's.  I have shot down a few that came close but have not been hit by any yet.  To be honest my biggest issue with Tier X is being focus fired on by surface ships.  Sometimes no one cares anything about me, other times everyone is after me. 

So maybe I am just lucky and it is only a matter of time before I get slammed by an overpowered Tier X CV with an expert captain.  Are there any other Salem or DM random players out there?  Love to know what I should prepare for and expect as I work my way up to 100 Tier X battles.

Thanks.

It's not luck, its normal for an AA specced DM. 

DM has been my main ship for years now and I've been playing CVs since the rework. DM's AA being "completely useless" is complete nonsense. DM is still one of the nastiest ships for a CV to face. Like any AA ship, the worst of its AA CAN be mitigated if the CV knows what it is doing. Slingshotting works but it is nowhere near as reliable or as devastating as people make it out to be. More often the CV can avoid the worst of the AA by attacking ships that are camping islands. If you approach from the far side of the island it blocks the AA fire. 

With regard to CVs avoiding you, that will tend to happen. It doesn't take much to figure out which ships have AA builds and the CV will actively avoid them. That means it is working. I've always had my DM AA specced. Even before the rework. I've rarely ever been attacked by CVs in years of play. They never came near me before the rework. They do so more often afterwards, but they almost never attack me directly. They are usually going after someone else in my AA umbrella. Last time I was attacked was last weekend (I think). I was lurking behind an island with a Yammy and a GK sheltering in my AA umbrella and the Midway DBs came over the island and dropped on me before I realized they were coming. He hit but even a solid hit from Midway DBs is far less than what you will get from a T10 BB. The last time I came under heavy AA attack was early after the rework. I ate 25 of his planes before he stayed away from me the rest of the match.  You very rarely will be able to stop the first strike. Almost no one can. But you can set yourself up to shred any followup attacks or force him to abort them. 

To sum it up, don't expect to get many plane kills in an AA specced DM. You are not a preferential target for them. Also planes can spot DM outside of its AA range so they can and will avoid you. Them avoiding you is a success though because it establishes a zone they are reluctant to enter. You will rarely get many AA kills though because of that avoidance. 

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1 hour ago, SJ_Sailer said:

Hey Guys,

I just graduated from T7 to T10  (skipped 8 & 9) when I got enough coal to get a Salem.  So far 23 battles in and want to ask more experienced Tier X players about CV's.

Going in I saw the thread about the DM being completely useless against CV's because there is no short range AA covering 0-1km.  Because of that I speced into AA Module 1 (Survival of Mounts), skipped AA Module 2 (2 extra Flak did not seem worth it.), and got AA Module 3 (16% extra AA).  For captain skills, I have Manual AA, but still 1 point before I get BFT.  (Thinking of skipping AFT from what I hear.)

23 battles in and I rarely see any CV's in Tier X battles.  When I do see them I rarely see planes come my way, they seem to spend all their time on DD's and BB's.  I have shot down a few that came close but have not been hit by any yet.  To be honest my biggest issue with Tier X is being focus fired on by surface ships.  Sometimes no one cares anything about me, other times everyone is after me. 

So maybe I am just lucky and it is only a matter of time before I get slammed by an overpowered Tier X CV with an expert captain.  Are there any other Salem or DM random players out there?  Love to know what I should prepare for and expect as I work my way up to 100 Tier X battles.

Thanks.

Why would you do that?

Skipping tiers 8 and 9 to use coal for a tier 10 ship is qoing to put you and your team at a disadvantage, especially if you were only mediocre ( 48-50% ) or worse at tier 7.  This rush to tier 10 makes WG some nice coin, which is part of the monetary model behind F2P MMO's, but it's not a good idea from a practical team play standpoint.  You may have faced 9's before in a tier 7 ship, but you haven't seen tier 10's, most of which stand head and shoulders better than their tier 9 counter parts.  Play a LOT of Co-op in your Salem before you take it out into randoms - hopefully in a division with players more experienced than you are.  I hate to say it - but players who make the same decision you just did, are the ROOT CAUSE of many of the "MM is broken" threads on this forum.  Tier 10 game play and tier 7 game play are not comparable, there are different metas and different strats required to win and help the team.

Good luck and I hope I don't get you on my side for a good 6 months or so.  Also, expect some salt until you figure out how to use your Salem in a team support role.

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1 hour ago, SJ_Sailer said:

Hey Guys,

I just graduated from T7 to T10  (skipped 8 & 9) when I got enough coal to get a Salem.  So far 23 battles in and want to ask more experienced Tier X players about CV's.

Going in I saw the thread about the DM being completely useless against CV's because there is no short range AA covering 0-1km.  Because of that I speced into AA Module 1 (Survival of Mounts), skipped AA Module 2 (2 extra Flak did not seem worth it.), and got AA Module 3 (16% extra AA).  For captain skills, I have Manual AA, but still 1 point before I get BFT.  (Thinking of skipping AFT from what I hear.)

23 battles in and I rarely see any CV's in Tier X battles.  When I do see them I rarely see planes come my way, they seem to spend all their time on DD's and BB's.  I have shot down a few that came close but have not been hit by any yet.  To be honest my biggest issue with Tier X is being focus fired on by surface ships.  Sometimes no one cares anything about me, other times everyone is after me. 

So maybe I am just lucky and it is only a matter of time before I get slammed by an overpowered Tier X CV with an expert captain.  Are there any other Salem or DM random players out there?  Love to know what I should prepare for and expect as I work my way up to 100 Tier X battles.

Thanks.

Good Cv players will prioritize their targets, A  Salem will normally not be their first choice for many reasons, their AA and location. Most good Salem and DM players are normally positioned very close to terrain making it very difficult to strike them, or at least more difficult.

that said, you will have the hammer dropped on you some day, and will be left wondering wth just happened.....

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1 hour ago, SJ_Sailer said:

Going in I saw the thread about the DM being completely useless against CV's because there is no short range AA covering 0-1km.

You should note that Salem and DM are not completely identical with respect to AA; DM has weak-ish short range AA (210.5dps at <1.5km), while Salem has literally none inside 1km (but its medium-range aura is slightly wider, covering the 1.0 - 1.5km zone). The functional difference is minimal, but it does exist.

As for not getting plane kills, the other posters above have it right, most CVs avoid DMs and other AA-capable cruisers as long as there are targets elsewhere on the map with less AA. However, Hakuryu AP dive bombers in particular are notorious for blasting cruisers that try to island camp, so watch out for them.

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2 hours ago, berree said:

Its DBs that kill you save you dfaa for them

Good advice, thanks.

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1 hour ago, BiggieD61 said:

Why would you do that?

Skipping tiers 8 and 9 to use coal for a tier 10 ship is qoing to put you and your team at a disadvantage, especially if you were only mediocre ( 48-50% ) or worse at tier 7.  This rush to tier 10 makes WG some nice coin, which is part of the monetary model behind F2P MMO's, but it's not a good idea from a practical team play standpoint.  You may have faced 9's before in a tier 7 ship, but you haven't seen tier 10's, most of which stand head and shoulders better than their tier 9 counter parts.  Play a LOT of Co-op in your Salem before you take it out into randoms - hopefully in a division with players more experienced than you are.  I hate to say it - but players who make the same decision you just did, are the ROOT CAUSE of many of the "MM is broken" threads on this forum.  Tier 10 game play and tier 7 game play are not comparable, there are different metas and different strats required to win and help the team.

Good luck and I hope I don't get you on my side for a good 6 months or so.  Also, expect some salt until you figure out how to use your Salem in a team support role.

Actually it is the economy that forces people like me to skip Tier 8 and 9.  You can't play those tiers without premium time and move forward.  It is just to expensive to do, so you save you coal and get a Tier 10 Premium ship that has good economy payout.  Even when I lose and am the worst player on the team I still make 50K in credits.

I was on the path to get a Hindenburg and just started playing Tier 8 when I realized it was just not possible to do so.  Saving coal and getting a Salem was the best decision to make it to Tier 10.

As for co-op, who wants to play there.  That does not teach you anything as bots do not behave like real people.  I prefer real life "On the Job Training".

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My intent from co-op play was to figure out the characteristics of the guns, their arcs, how close to an island you can sit and still fire over it, etc.  The people you will normally be facing in PvP at tier 10 already have acquired that info, and will use it to punish you if you sit in the wrong place.

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I spent an entire T10 match in my Asashio.  I was never spotted, and subsequently never attacked, by the T10 CV.  For those that don't know, Asashio has almost zero AA.  Once caught out, it can be a bad day.  I was attempting a flank move, got spotted by a patrolling enemy gunboat DD, and had to smoke and run.  I was a bit worried about the CV running me down.  In retrospect, he had more important things to worry about, so the planes never came.

I ran the middle a bit, messing with the enemy BBs, and then slowly made may way back to the flank...the patrolling DD having since moved on.  The enemy CV captain wasn't bad...he put up good numbers.  The only thing he missed was the need to run a rocket sweep of the open flank.  Again, not knocking the CV captain...I'VE BEEN THERE TOO.  I've failed to make that sweep, usually because the match is on the line and I just have to take the chance.  He had his hands full with direct threats, so the "possible" threat (me) just never reached the threshold for a look.  This is how it ended.  The big lesson for me was how devastating those secondaries are....look at my health going in and how much the secondaries nix'd me.

Again...big bad T10 CV....little ole T8 DD with virtually zip AA.

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Yeah... uhh... the Des Moine is definitely not useless when it comes to AA. It's actually very powerful. The problem is that CV's will avoid your cruiser until you're basically nearly dead anyways.

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Its not useless... without AA and DFAA the cv can atack you 3~4 times, with DFAA he will atack only 1 maybe 2 times.

You only need be really worried in a DM with the AP bombs from Hak.

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Just now, HyenaHiena said:

Its not useless... without AA and DFAA the cv can atack you 3~4 times, with DFAA he will atack only 1 maybe 2 times.

You only need be really worried in a DM with the AP bombs from Hak.

Yes, got the message on that one.  Let rockets and torps go and save DFAA for DB's.

Edit, I usually use DFAA on first encounter to sort of send a message in hopes the CV will not return.

Edited by SJ_Sailer

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4 hours ago, berree said:

Think I remember you from another thread recently . If your liking tier 10 better get busy diversifying before you get bored of the Salem. As for cvs I just fought noobcv earlier in my DM he was in Midway hiding behind(as he should be) island 10km from me 10 mins in I had 100k plane damage and was dead ......with 20 planes down. now he didnt solo me but nevertheless hes the reason I died...... A 100k in just plane damage and 20 measly planes...Its DBs that kill you save you dfaa for them

Working as intended.  This is good to here, I liked the part where you say he didn't kill me but caused me to actually move from my hiding spot where I can punish every ship type with no counter and you got blapped.

 

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Salem's super heal also makes her a hard kill for CV to get. Unless island camping, you can usually turn by the time the planes arrive, otherwise they have to navigate your nasty mid-range flak

It's only rocket planes, Audacious's DB, and Haku's AP DB that pose a threat.

DM is actually worse off in that players are more likely to focus her if spotted.

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