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clammboy

Is save a star hurting ranked games ?

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It seems like people use the MM if they don't like what they see then you have 3 teammates all trying to save a star instead of win the game . I just think if you lose everybody should lose a star no star saving for top score its counterproductive .

What's the point if you lose and you play good you still lost you should get nothing for losing . By getting to keep your star your asking players to manipulate the system .  If you give one person a star out of 7 for a loss it's just telling

players to quit the objective and fend for yourself when things look bleak .

 

 

 

Edited by clammboy
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I completely and totally disagree with you!  I have never had a player ask to help them keep a star, nor have I ever worked to help them.  Also, this is the first time I've ever hear of this happening. 

 EDIT:  After having this explained further to me I now agree with the OP.

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Its a mixed bag. Personally I would like it to be xp based. We have all had games where 2 people deserve that star save, and games where frankly nobody deserved anything. Of course it still would be a damage farm, but not as bad. Still, it is well within peoples right to try and save their star. I don't agree with it, and it has probably thrown plenty of games, but WG has basically made it part of ranked. Saving stars is just as important as wins. 

 

If your asking me, the only thing truly broken is the imbalance CVs got. CVs had such an easy time saving the star, because they have continuous damage output over the entire battle, plus spotting. There is no way Hak players should be ranking out in 60 games. 

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People play ships they think can help them save a star you read on the forums all the time . Players don't ask you to help them save a star they just play to farm as much damage as they can and its become a big thing to save a star .

7 minutes ago, FlashTX1 said:

I completely and totally disagree with you!  I have never had a player ask to help them keep a star, nor have I ever worked to help them.  Also, this is the first time I've ever hear of this happening. 

 

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5 minutes ago, _1204_ said:

I don't agree with it, and it has probably thrown plenty of games, but WG has basically made it part of ranked. Saving stars is just as important as wins.  

 

But it shouldn't be that's all I'm saying .

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Save the star is the worse thing they put on rankeds (after rentals), when you see an henri ou conkekror you alread know he is playing for he spam and try save the star .

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19 hours ago, clammboy said:

People play ships they think can help them save a star you read on the forums all the time . Players don't ask you to help them save a star they just play to farm as much damage as they can and its become a big thing to save a star .

 

Okay, this is the first I have heard of this.  But as I pointed out in another post about Ranked I only play to Rank10 and then I stop to avoid all the mess.

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2 minutes ago, clammboy said:

But it shouldn't be that's all I'm saying .

You are absolutely correct, that should not be going on!  :Smile-angry:

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1 minute ago, HyenaHiena said:

Save the star is the worse thing they put on rankeds (after rentals), when you see an henri ou conkekror you alread know he is playing for he spam and try save the star .

Ya know, Hyena, I don't really respect the opinions of unicums on this issue.  You guys are good enough to carry teams all by yourself.  The way I see it, you guys don't want the save a star thing around because you want to block lesser players from having any chance of progressing up the ranks.  To me, this is exactly the same thing as before the CV rework when the unicum CV mains opposed any CV rework because they wanted to protect their ability to seal club the crap with their CVs.  

In short, I don't trust your motivations here.  Not at all.

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3 minutes ago, Crucis said:

Ya know, Hyena, I don't really respect the opinions of unicums on this issue.  You guys are good enough to carry teams all by yourself.  The way I see it, you guys don't want the save a star thing around because you want to block lesser players from having any chance of progressing up the ranks.  To me, this is exactly the same thing as before the CV rework when the unicum CV mains opposed any CV rework because they wanted to protect their ability to seal club the crap with their CVs.  

In short, I don't trust your motivations here.  Not at all.

I'm an average player and this save a star thing is horrendous from its inception.

I've seen what the OP is talking about in many games on both ends. It immediately throws the game once a player has deemed he's not going to win and plays for themselves.

I'd rather see them go to a points system on both sides where you need to earn a certain score to earn or keep your star. That way the guys that run to the corner and do nothing (seen a lot of it this season) don't get rewarded for the win. And the people that play very well on the losing side are rewarded. I think you'll have a lot less of the antics in ranked if they went to this type of system.

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8 minutes ago, Crucis said:

Ya know, Hyena, I don't really respect the opinions of unicums on this issue.  You guys are good enough to carry teams all by yourself.  The way I see it, you guys don't want the save a star thing around because you want to block lesser players from having any chance of progressing up the ranks.  To me, this is exactly the same thing as before the CV rework when the unicum CV mains opposed any CV rework because they wanted to protect their ability to seal club the crap with their CVs.  

In short, I don't trust your motivations here.  Not at all. 

You know dont save the star means to EVERYONE dont save the star right? Not only the unicum player.

The problem with "saving the star" is you (not you you but in general speak) dont play for win, when people play for farm dmg and maybe the team carry you (again not you you)... its going only reduce your chances of winning. So no one win in that situation (and probably the only one how going save the star is going be the "unicum" how know what he doing anyway).

In fact "save the star" only help "unicuns" to progress more faster... but still annoying have players how start the match and go for farm he spam for try ""save the star""...

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It does effect it simply by removing some of the incentive to play for the win.

For example tonight I had a Worcester and Conqueror that refused to move from behind islands near A cap on Shatter where they could shoot undetected halfway across the map at ships that were spotted.  The Conqueror refusing to push up enabled a DM to yolo rush the corner where you have to try to contest B cap.  I was able to trade against the DM, but that player was more interested in playing as [edited] as possible to farm as much damage as they could.  The Worcester at no point during the game was anywhere near a good position to support the team with radar, instead spending the time shelling BBs halfway across the map for the most pointless damage in the game.

The greatest frustration in ranked is when players do not do their job, instead are so focused on not losing progress, they pick poor ship choices to win games, but are able to live long and farm damage meeting their goal.  These players mean you are at least half a ship down from the start, maybe more.

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21 minutes ago, Crucis said:

Ya know, Hyena, I don't really respect the opinions of unicums on this issue.  You guys are good enough to carry teams all by yourself.  The way I see it, you guys don't want the save a star thing around because you want to block lesser players from having any chance of progressing up the ranks.  To me, this is exactly the same thing as before the CV rework when the unicum CV mains opposed any CV rework because they wanted to protect their ability to seal club the crap with their CVs.  

In short, I don't trust your motivations here.  Not at all.

Please elaborate on how eliminating save a star hurts average and poor players, or block them.  I just dont see it.

 

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11 minutes ago, HyenaHiena said:

You know dont save the star means to EVERYONE dont save the star right? Not only the unicum player.

The problem with "saving the star" is you (not you you but in general speak) dont play for win, when people play for farm dmg and maybe the team carry you (again not you you)... its going only reduce your chances of winning. So no one win in that situation (and probably the only one how going save the star is going be the "unicum" how know what he doing anyway).

In fact "save the star" only help "unicuns" to progress more faster... but still annoying have players how start the match and go for farm he spam for try ""save the star""...

Its not a matter of farming damage, its effective damage.  I mostly see Henri, Conqs, and their ilk spend most of their time shooting BBs, often at great range.  They arent using reloads to hit DDs when they pop up, they arent focusing radar ships down, they are just looking for as much easy damage as possible.

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59 minutes ago, clammboy said:

It seems like people use the MM if they don't like what they see then you have 3 teammates all trying to save a star instead of win the game . I just think if you lose everybody should lose a star no star saving for top score its counterproductive .

What's the point if you lose and you play good you still lost you should get nothing for losing . By getting to keep your star your asking players to manipulate the system .  If you give one person a star out of 7 for a loss it's just telling

players to quit the objective and fend for yourself when things look bleak .

I agree there should be no save a star. To be a team player you must be willing to sacrifice personal stats for team goals. Rewarding people who seek stats is counter to promoting team play.

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Think for a moment about the mathematics of ranked if one couldn't save stars. In each battle, the number of stars lost would exactly equal the number of stars gained. In other words the total number of stars for the playerbase would not increase (ignoring for a moment irrevocable ranks) with each star gained coming directly out of the pocket of another player, meaning that the grind for the vast majority of the playerbase; especially the less-skilled players, would increase literally to infinity.

Edited by senseNOTmade

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1 hour ago, clammboy said:

It seems like people use the MM if they don't like what they see then you have 3 teammates all trying to save a star instead of win the game . I just think if you lose everybody should lose a star no star saving for top score its counterproductive .

What's the point if you lose and you play good you still lost you should get nothing for losing . By getting to keep your star your asking players to manipulate the system .  If you give one person a star out of 7 for a loss it's just telling

players to quit the objective and fend for yourself when things look bleak .

I used to agree with you that everyone should lose; however, after some of the stupid stuff I saw this season, I now believe in the save a star system. I no longer care if my DD is running down the 10 line to J10 or if my BB is a 37km sniping Yamato - I know I am saving my star.

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That and with CVs being in ranked, it basically turns into "everybody except CV loses a star on the losing team!"

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 I would love to see the whole save a star removed from ranked that would encourage people to try to play the objectives and win vs maximize damage... and yes you can try to maximize damage and completely ignore the objective and be a detriment to the team.

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save star should not be 1st in points, should be avg of all players + 50%. if no one hits that then no one should save a star. if multiple people hit that then they all of them save it.

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Id like it to be worthwhile for DD captains.

Unless i did top damage, and cap, and get the dds im not saving a star 99% of the time. 

Its hard to save a star against damage farming. 

Edited by Report_CVs
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One thing I will say on this is that there's a balance between getting good stats and playing the objective. Most people who play games neglect going for a win or having fun in favor of stats because they feel it gives them some measure of worth, however as with any individual stat, damage, K/D and other combat stats are worthless. The only time they mean anything is when they're combined with playing the objective as anyone no matter their skill level can go flawless while ignoring the objectives.

Keep in mind most players are more than willing to throw the match if it means keeping a star because that way the loss won't effect them. They don't care about the team, they only care about themselves. The incentive to care about the team isn't there.

Edited by TonePatrol
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Honestly, it depends on whom has the highest average winrate on either team, and if my team has meta ships.

If we dont have game winning ships with gimmicks, i try to do what i can, but i go into star save mode. 

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True, personally I think it wouldn't hurt to make stats invisible outside of the wows website and only have them visible for the player whose stats they are. That at the very least would turn stats back into what they're supposed to be, a tool to help you see how you're doing. Stats were never meant to be the end all be all of gaming. 

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 I keep seeing keep star brought up in battles a lot, if i played to keep a star a shima would be the last ship i would play.

I even see the reds asking for a RAM to keep a star.

Edited by Final8ty

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