Jump to content
You need to play a total of 5 battles to post in this section.
vonKaiser

German Legendary Commander

51 comments in this topic

Recommended Posts

887
[MIA-I]
Supertester
2,882 posts
5,497 battles

Any plans in the works for a German historical captain?  America has Hallsey, Russia has Kuznetsov and Ovenchicken, Japan has Yamamoto.  Now I get why Germany might be a little tougher.  But Germany did have a captain who wasn't swayed by the ideology, mainly because he served in WWI.  He was respected by both sides of the war for his gallantry and commitment to minimizing casualties, and he was renowned for his treatment of captives.

Karl Friedrich Max von Müller

csXaVfl.jpg

Many of you know of him, many more are familiar with the ship he commanded, the SMS Emden.  Due to that I'll try not to turn this into a history lesson and bore everyone.  But I hope to bring a bit of attention to him and have him considered as a Legendary captain, maybe even a campaign involving crates and collectibles.  Ideally, due to the time period and ship he commanded, we might even have some missions for the lower tier ships, and perhaps some missions involving scenario battles. 

Beyond this point will be much, much, much rambling and just general ideas so be warned and abandon all hope ye who enter here. 

So, given Kapitan von Müller was rather stealthy, even going so far as to build a fake smoke funnel on the Emden to conceal her and make her resemble a British Ship, I would hope to give him a boost to the Concealment Expert skill.  This would make him viable in multiple ships.  However given his reputation earned on a cruiser, it would be beneficial to give him something benefiting a cruiser captain, maybe a boost to the Jack of all Trades Skill? 

Honestly hard to find a skill that would fit in with the exploits of his ship and be useful to a particular build.  Due to Emden being in game I'd hazard to say a bump to Basic Firing Training or Advanced Firing Training, but this only makes him viable for the lower tiers, or those at higher tiers who might use him for a secondary build in their Battleships. 

Second part of adding him to the game, a new scenario?  Seeing as the Emden was a feared, solo, commerce raider it is difficult for me to figure out how to make it work as a team event.  But using the evacuation circles from the Dunkirk event I could see how a beginning part of the campaign would work.  Sail up to the cargo ships, they come to a stop, evacuate the crew and on the way to point B to offload the troops, sink the transport or leave it floating and let the crew back on so she can continue on her way, maybe sink a few, let a few go for different conditions of the event or different rewards.  I mean, von Müller captured a Greek ship, paid the crew to join his convoy, then when he captured a Norwegian ship and realized it had no contraband, let her go.  Dodge shore battery fire as you bombard the coastline targets, later on in the mission, Bogatyr and a destroyer ambush.  Could also use battle with Chikuma's and the low tier British cruisers, since the British, French, and Russian ships we're hunting for her, it would make for a nice option of various low tier ships. 

Final battle against a superior force relying on stealth more so then outright brawling might be a nice change of pace, however how to implement that in game would be difficult, various "neutral" shore batteries in the area relaying spotting data as you fire your guns over the tops of the islands and run away to an evacuation point? 

Again all just random ideas bouncing around in my head.  I had to write some of them down else I'd lose'em eventually. 

  • Cool 3
  • Angry 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3,242
[5BS]
Members
7,625 posts

You can almost guarantee it will not be a Nazi era commander. More likely are Scheer, Hipper, or Tirpitz who carry little to no political issues and are essentially universally well regarded. There's no *rule* that the Legendary Admiral has to be WWII era.

The only two Nazi era Admirals who might carry low enough regard to be implemented without blowback (the americans may be embracing nazis but the rest of the world is not) would be either Donitz (and opinions aside, he was in *fact* convicted as a war criminal and is likely a no go) and frankly the safest choice is Lütjens, just because he was outspoken as an anti-Nazi and certainty partook in fleet actions at sea (another issue with Donitz is he was very much a shore-Admiral with the vast vast vast majority of his at sea career in Subs).

No, for all intents and purposes Reinhard Scheer makes the most sense, with Franz Hipper a close second, as Scheer is the definition of a Battle-Fleet Admiral, was highly competent, and exerted amazing command and control for the era.

Edited by _RC1138
  • Cool 1
  • Angry 6

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3,017
[DAKI]
Privateers, Members
8,717 posts
7,708 battles

Captain Langsdorff would also be a safe option. He mainly got known for his command on Graf Spee, raiding decently successful without any casualties on either side and was a respected captain in the eyes of the British.

  • Cool 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3,242
[5BS]
Members
7,625 posts
2 minutes ago, SireneRacker said:

Captain Langsdorff

He's just a Captain though, which makes him not part of the Admiral 'Series' that Halsey, Yamamoto, and Kuznetsov. He quite literally cannot fly an Admiral's Flag. I agree though he is largely politically neutral.

Also, to anyone interested, the Console version of WoWs is getting these Legendary Commanders:

bbe1a67c-6035-11e9-ad1c-d89d6715223c_120bb978222-6035-11e9-8293-d89d6715223c_120

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
590
[NGA]
Members
1,855 posts
9,686 battles

How would von Reuter work out do you think? As a reminder, he was the German admiral that ordered the Scuttling at Scapa Flow. A quick search didn't reveal if he had anything to do with Nazism even though he did live into the Second World War.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3,242
[5BS]
Members
7,625 posts
2 minutes ago, JediMasterDraco said:

How would von Reuter work out do you think? As a reminder, he was the German admiral that ordered the Scuttling at Scapa Flow. A quick search didn't reveal if he had anything to do with Nazism even though he did live into the Second World War.

Nothing in particular, but he also didn't DO all that much either in WWI. If you are going to use WWI era Admirals, why on earth would you choose anyone other than Scheer?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
293
[FOXEH]
[FOXEH]
Members
1,603 posts
6,236 battles
51 minutes ago, vonKaiser said:

Any plans in the works for a German historical captain?  America has Hallsey, Russia has Kuznetsov and Ovenchicken, Japan has Yamamoto.  Now I get why Germany might be a little tougher.  But Germany did have a captain who wasn't swayed by the ideology, mainly because he served in WWI.  He was respected by both sides of the war for his gallantry and commitment to minimizing casualties, and he was renowned for his treatment of captives.

Karl Friedrich Max von Müller

csXaVfl.jpg

Many of you know of him, many more are familiar with the ship he commanded, the SMS Emden.  Due to that I'll try not to turn this into a history lesson and bore everyone.  But I hope to bring a bit of attention to him and have him considered as a Legendary captain, maybe even a campaign involving crates and collectibles.  Ideally, due to the time period and ship he commanded, we might even have some missions for the lower tier ships, and perhaps some missions involving scenario battles. 

Beyond this point will be much, much, much rambling and just general ideas so be warned and abandon all hope ye who enter here. 

So, given Kapitan von Müller was rather stealthy, even going so far as to build a fake smoke funnel on the Emden to conceal her and make her resemble a British Ship, I would hope to give him a boost to the Concealment Expert skill.  This would make him viable in multiple ships.  However given his reputation earned on a cruiser, it would be beneficial to give him something benefiting a cruiser captain, maybe a boost to the Jack of all Trades Skill? 

Honestly hard to find a skill that would fit in with the exploits of his ship and be useful to a particular build.  Due to Emden being in game I'd hazard to say a bump to Basic Firing Training or Advanced Firing Training, but this only makes him viable for the lower tiers, or those at higher tiers who might use him for a secondary build in their Battleships. 

Second part of adding him to the game, a new scenario?  Seeing as the Emden was a feared, solo, commerce raider it is difficult for me to figure out how to make it work as a team event.  But using the evacuation circles from the Dunkirk event I could see how a beginning part of the campaign would work.  Sail up to the cargo ships, they come to a stop, evacuate the crew and on the way to point B to offload the troops, sink the transport or leave it floating and let the crew back on so she can continue on her way, maybe sink a few, let a few go for different conditions of the event or different rewards.  I mean, von Müller captured a Greek ship, paid the crew to join his convoy, then when he captured a Norwegian ship and realized it had no contraband, let her go.  Dodge shore battery fire as you bombard the coastline targets, later on in the mission, Bogatyr and a destroyer ambush.  Could also use battle with Chikuma's and the low tier British cruisers, since the British, French, and Russian ships we're hunting for her, it would make for a nice option of various low tier ships. 

Final battle against a superior force relying on stealth more so then outright brawling might be a nice change of pace, however how to implement that in game would be difficult, various "neutral" shore batteries in the area relaying spotting data as you fire your guns over the tops of the islands and run away to an evacuation point? 

Again all just random ideas bouncing around in my head.  I had to write some of them down else I'd lose'em eventually. 

I agree, he would be a good one.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
418
[TF_34]
Beta Testers
1,362 posts
4,533 battles
36 minutes ago, SireneRacker said:

Captain Langsdorff would also be a safe option. He mainly got known for his command on Graf Spee, raiding decently successful without any casualties on either side and was a respected captain in the eyes of the British.

He was also not a goose-stepping Nazi, either. I think Langsdorff would be the ideal legendary captain.  Scheer and Hipper would also be great fits.

Edited by BBsquid
  • Cool 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2
[HMCS]
[HMCS]
Members
17 posts
4,734 battles
12 minutes ago, Poharan said:

I'd like to see Donitz, but they should wait until they release subs. Makes most sense. 

Subs will never go past a event stage. so that will be a long wait 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
0
[1KR]
Members
0 posts
2 minutes ago, Hatters2 said:

Subs will never go past a event stage. so that will be a long wait 

Could be a special event commander then. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3,242
[5BS]
Members
7,625 posts
17 minutes ago, BBsquid said:

would be the ideal legendary captain. 

The issue is they are not Legendary Captains, they are Legendary Admirals.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1,087
[S0L0]
Alpha Tester
2,853 posts
4,057 battles
15 minutes ago, Hatters2 said:

Subs will never go past a event stage. so that will be a long wait 

You sure about that?  

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
167
[-AGW-]
Members
847 posts
11,814 battles

If he needs to be an admiral how about Maximilian von Spee himself?

  • Cool 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2
[HMCS]
[HMCS]
Members
17 posts
4,734 battles

If you add subs into the normal game play it will require a bigger overhaul then CVs have gone through. to add subs all damage output from ships will have to be looked at. THey will have to make working depth chargers. Building a game mode for subs i can see but not worked into normal game play

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2,636
[SIM]
Members
3,841 posts
6,404 battles

Admiral or not, I completely back  Müllr to be Germany’s legendary captain. He predates Nazism, he was gallant and honorable, and a hell of a raider captain to boot. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5,538
[GWG]
[GWG]
Alpha Tester, In AlfaTesters
21,338 posts
11,846 battles
2 hours ago, _RC1138 said:

You can almost guarantee it will not be a Nazi era commander. More likely are Scheer, Hipper, or Tirpitz who carry little to no political issues and are essentially universally well regarded. There's no *rule* that the Legendary Admiral has to be WWII era.

The only two Nazi era Admirals who might carry low enough regard to be implemented without blowback (the americans may be embracing nazis but the rest of the world is not) would be either Donitz (and opinions aside, he was in *fact* convicted as a war criminal and is likely a no go) and frankly the safest choice is Lütjens, just because he was outspoken as an anti-Nazi and certainty partook in fleet actions at sea (another issue with Donitz is he was very much a shore-Admiral with the vast vast vast majority of his at sea career in Subs).

No, for all intents and purposes Reinhard Scheer makes the most sense, with Franz Hipper a close second, as Scheer is the definition of a Battle-Fleet Admiral, was highly competent, and exerted amazing command and control for the era.

That letter seems to be Lutjens only protest and from everything else I have seen he was very much a political admiral. If we have to have someone who attained the rank of admiral going back to WWI is the best choice with Scheer or Spee being the best choices. If people who attained lesser rank can be used Karl von Muller would be my first choice and as seen in my signature Ernst Lindemann for a most eloquent order to open fire after having enough with arguing with Lutjens about opening fire while the Hood had been firing for some time.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
105
[SUCIT]
Members
348 posts
13,950 battles

if the legendary captain is a renowned admiral, then Lutjens would be my pick, he seems not much of a Nazi Sympathizer, and I believe he saluted the traditional way, rather than the Nazi salute. But why not both Muller and Lutjens? Muller could be a German unique captain (the lines of the Jutland captains but actually more useful), and if they want a second unique German captain, Langsdorff can work. As for skills, I'd give Muller bonuses to Expert Marksman, Jack of All Trades, or could try something new by dropping JOAT bonus and give an improved Concealment Expert (15% instead of 10%, although playing with this skill can be borderline overpowered), or a bonus to Superintendent (+2 consumables, again could be overpowered depending on ship).

 

Lutjens' skills could include: Bonus to BFT (15% reload to <139mm main guns and all secondaries), bonus Manual Secondaries (30% bonus for T6 and lower ships, 75% T7 and up), and Expert Marksman or Adrenaline Rush.

With Lutjens as a legendary captain, when these conditions are met, these bonuses apply:

Close Quarters: whenever you score a "Close Quarters Expert" medal, main and secondary guns get 10% shorter reload, activates multiple times per game

Fight to the Last Shell: upon receiving 2.0 million potential damage and have less than 15k health, the following applies: 

                          Main gun reload time: -25%

                          Secondary guns reload time: -20%

                          number of charges of repair party added: 1

                          reload of Damage Control Party: -25%

                                                                                                                          OR:

Through the Gauntlet: +25% credits, 100% XP bonus, and and 10 India Delta flags for every Dreadnought achievement

                                    also, +15% credits and 50% XP bonus for Fireproof and Unsinkable achievements

 

those skills could use some tweaking, but its a rough idea for what could be niche German special captains (and could add incentive for Bismarcks, Tirpitzs, and Kurfursts to stop sitting at the back and use their health and armor for something) to put on maybe a Prinz Eugen, Emden, or Graf Spee for Muller/Langsdorff, and Lutjens on Bismarck, Tirpitz, and Kurfurst. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
271
[JMMAF]
Members
315 posts
5,573 battles
3 hours ago, _RC1138 said:

You can almost guarantee it will not be a Nazi era commander. More likely are Scheer, Hipper, or Tirpitz who carry little to no political issues and are essentially universally well regarded. There's no *rule* that the Legendary Admiral has to be WWII era.

The only two Nazi era Admirals who might carry low enough regard to be implemented without blowback (the americans may be embracing nazis but the rest of the world is not) would be either Donitz (and opinions aside, he was in *fact* convicted as a war criminal and is likely a no go) and frankly the safest choice is Lütjens, just because he was outspoken as an anti-Nazi and certainty partook in fleet actions at sea (another issue with Donitz is he was very much a shore-Admiral with the vast vast vast majority of his at sea career in Subs).

No, for all intents and purposes Reinhard Scheer makes the most sense, with Franz Hipper a close second, as Scheer is the definition of a Battle-Fleet Admiral, was highly competent, and exerted amazing command and control for the

 

Way to paint with a broad brush clown.

  • Cool 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2,025
[WOLF2]
Beta Testers
4,630 posts
2 hours ago, NashW8 said:

If he needs to be an admiral how about Maximilian von Spee himself?

This,

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5,046
[PVE]
Members
9,314 posts
16,536 battles
4 hours ago, _RC1138 said:

(the americans may be embracing nazis but the rest of the world is not) 

WHAT????

I can assure you the average American does not embrace Nazi's. America does not embrace Nazism. America, however, is no more immune to having some white supremacists who believe in that disgusting ideology than any other country.  Don't hold an entire nation accountable for a tiny group if disturbed individuals.

Please leave politics, and wildly false accusations, out of this forum.

  • Cool 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1,527
[CRMSN]
Beta Testers, In AlfaTesters
5,953 posts
4,321 battles
4 hours ago, vonKaiser said:

 

My personal choice would be  Theodor von Bechtolsheim

 

He fought in many difference engagements throughout ww2 and was a recipient of the knights cross.  He was also involved in the battle of ushant which features many ships that are currently ingame. 

"Standing here alone with Z-32 I can do nothing against the too powerful enemy, especially since my reserve torpedoes would first have to be reloaded and my artillery ammunition is no longer sufficient for a lengthy battle. My goal must continue to be to head east. Since I can no longer reach Cherbourg before daybreak, I decide to head for St. Malo. I am hoping that, on my way there and before reaching the Channel Islands area, I will have the remaining destroyers with me.

With a heavy heart I must therefore decide to break off the mission ordered. In this situation I cannot force a breakthrough to the east with "Z 32" alone. Will still have to wait and see whether the breakthrough to the west will be successful. I continue to suspect that there are more naval forces as contact keepers to the northwest of me."

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
7,272
[WOLF3]
[WOLF3]
Members
21,246 posts
19,617 battles
4 hours ago, _RC1138 said:

He's just a Captain though, which makes him not part of the Admiral 'Series' that Halsey, Yamamoto, and Kuznetsov. He quite literally cannot fly an Admiral's Flag. I agree though he is largely politically neutral.

Also, to anyone interested, the Console version of WoWs is getting these Legendary Commanders:

bbe1a67c-6035-11e9-ad1c-d89d6715223c_120bb978222-6035-11e9-8293-d89d6715223c_120

I smiled when I saw Tanaka.

Good.

Good.

The man did terrific work considering the significant hindrances he was stradled with.  His most powerful ship would typically be a CL like Jintsu (and IJN CLs are sh*t except for torpedoes), but he did the majority of his work with Destroyers mostly.  Often a bunch of his Destroyers would be carrying troops and their equipment and not fully fitted for surface ship combat.  The damage he did to the US Navy was considerable.  Tassafaronga was a defeat for Japan but the damage Tanaka inflicted on the prepared, ambushing Americans with a far superior force was so significant that even the US Navy considered Tanaka's leadership being perfect for the situation he had.

 

The funny thing with Tanaka was after doing so many of these missions for Guadalcanal, he advised his superiors that Guadalcanal was a black hole for Japan.  He got punished for this, lost his command, and was exiled to command *something* in BURMA.  One of the best fighting Admirals of the IJN, sent to BURMA.  But he survived the war because of this exile.

Edited by HazeGrayUnderway

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
120
[AR]
Members
360 posts
15,056 battles

German WWII special Cmdrs should be included in. But the problem is the out cry from Americans and perhaps British players.  Present day America is too SJW, politically correct and degenerate to not see passed entertainment and a video game and somehow assume the inclusion of a historical person as some kind  endorsement of that person. America is the problem here. The rest of the international player base most likely would not care. I myself would not even minded if FDR, Stalin and Hitler were to be introduced as special Cmdrs.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest
This topic is now closed to further replies.

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.

×