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JdeMolay

Why are some semi-basic things so hard for players to grasp?

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Since playing ranked this year, and I am certainly no unicum, I have been amazed at some team strategies that some players cannot grasp and seem hard.

I will place them in my order  of difficulty and comment. I would love to see your order, comments and additions.

1) Cruisers, especially radar cruisers need to position themselves where they can support the DD's with radar and fire at opposing DD's.

2) BB's, especially in ranked, need to move in to where they can support the above mentioned cruisers and shoot opponents DD's as well.

3) If an opposing DD is spotted and you can take a shot at it...do it. Don't just try to selfishly farm a BB. DD's become extremely powerful if left alive till later in the match

4) Focus fire and call out targets as well.

5) Complete lemming trains fail 98% of the time.If your team leaves you no choice and your ship really is not suitable to kiting the weak side, then the strong side has to push like maniacs. ( Lemming is still a bad idea though)

6) Yoloing, even if a brawler like a GK, or making yourself a target for the entire enemy team at the beginning of a match is.... well dare I say it....just dumb. Let your opponent get focused first. There will be plenty of chances to be aggressive when you know the positions of the reds.

7) Sometimes doing very little to nothing is called for. Example: if you are extremely low on health and one shot-able by most everything, for gosh sake's go dark...don't continue blazing away. You are worth points to your team by being alive.

 

These are my observations. I would love feedback on yours.

 

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I'm amazed you've been playing this long, and still don't know who the player base is...:cap_wander:

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Many players are just playing for fun..not competing to win.  They just sail around mindlessly just shooting up not understanding any strategy or concept of the idea of the game. 

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10 minutes ago, Poharan said:

B: for some, taking the game too seriously, playing in certain ways, or not playing in certain ways takes the fun out of the game. 

For some, playing on the same team as a dummy who isn't trying to win takes the fun out of the game.

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There are no rules in this game, just guidelines. You cant take aggressive positions because you are a DD or radar cruiser every time because some teams wont support you and you will die. Good players see what their team is doing and make a plan to do as much as possible with that as they can.

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Since I play cruisers a lot I will take this question.

1) Cruisers, especially radar cruisers need to position themselves where they can support the DD's with radar and fire at opposing DD's.   -   In Ranked battle if you only have one or two cruisers you can be sure of one thing.  If they follow the DD(s) in they will be the first ship spotted in most cases.  When they are spotted all of those enemy BB's will focus fire on them and they will soon be dead!  Ranked battles allows too many BB's in the battles for a cruiser to play a normal strategy. 

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21 minutes ago, dionkraft said:

Many players are just playing for fun..not competing to win.  They just sail around mindlessly just shooting up not understanding any strategy or concept of the idea of the game. 

Window-lickin' good!

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6 minutes ago, Ensign_Cthulhu said:

Window-lickin' good!

Consider that stolen and used in chat later tonight.

 

"Our BBs were Window Lickin' Good."

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2 minutes ago, JCC45 said:

Consider that stolen and used in chat later tonight.

 

"Our BBs were Window Lickin' Good."

With my blessing. :Smile_glasses:

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1 hour ago, Ensign_Cthulhu said:

Window-lickin' good!

SuuNc38.jpg

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1 hour ago, Poharan said:

A: what's easy for one isn't easy for everyone. 

B: for some, taking the game too seriously, playing in certain ways, or not playing in certain ways takes the fun out of the game. 

Agreed.    While I'm doing ok in this season of ranked, getting my gameplay down to a fine art is still elusive.     It's like watching the golf channel, and the instructor says that to create a fade shot, all you have to do is adjust your right grip just a quarter inch.   Seriously, it's that easy...   Or so they say.     I move my grip a quarter inch, and every practice shot at the range gets shanked.    So, you tend to go back to the semi-consistent grip you've had.    It's workable, but not optimal.

Same with WOWS.   I tend to practice all 7 points made by the op.   Doing them fairly consistently gets wins to the positive side.   But fine-tuning is a bit harder.

After reading Kingpin61's post on "How to Daring 101", I visited his Twitch page and watched his recent ranked play.    He was in a radar Mino, and while I enjoyed watching his strategy, it seemed too aggressive for my playstyle.   Precise positioning, and in some cases, he had to depend on other players to support that position (by laying smoke, providing cross-fire, etc.).    There were quite a few times where I was asking why the hell did he just do that???    But, he's unicum, in a unicum clan - he knows what he's doing.      The taters on his team didn't provide much help on a few of the matches - they were too busy breaking points 1 through 7.    What he was doing should have worked, provided the team was competent.

Point being with Kingpin's reference, I can certainly use a point or two to improve the game.   I try to pick up pointers all the time from the forums and video offerings.   But, out there, there's a level of play and strategy that I haven't yet hit.   I'll certainly try to get there, but I may not reach it.     All I have to do is adjust my right grip a quarter inch....

Edited by DiddleDum
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14 minutes ago, DiddleDum said:

Agreed.    While I'm doing ok in this season of ranked, getting my gameplay down to a fine art is still elusive.     It's like watching the golf channel, and the instructor says that to create a fade shot, all you have to do is adjust your right grip just a quarter inch.   Seriously, it's that easy...   Or so they say.     I move my grip a quarter inch, and every practice shot at the range gets shanked.    So, you tend to go back to the semi-consistent grip you've had.    It's workable, but not optimal.

Same with WOWS.   I tend to practice all 7 points made by the op.   Doing them fairly consistently gets wins to the positive side.   But fine-tuning is a bit harder.

After reading Kingpin61's post on "How to Daring 101", I visited his Twitch page and watched his recent ranked play.    He was in a radar Mino, and while I enjoyed watching his strategy, it seemed too aggressive for my playstyle.   Precise positioning, and in some cases, he had to depend on other players to support that position (by laying smoke, providing cross-fire, etc.).    There were quite a few times where I was asking why the hell did he just do that???    But, he's unicum, in a unicum clan - he knows what he's doing.      The taters on his team didn't provide much help on a few of the matches - they were too busy breaking points 1 through 7.    What he was doing should have worked, provided the team was competent.

Point being with Kingpin's reference, I can certainly use a point or two to improve the game.   I try to pick up pointers all the time from the forums and video offerings.   But, out there, there's a level of play and strategy that I haven't yet hit.   I'll certainly try to get there, but I may not reach it.     All I have to do is adjust my right grip a quarter inch....

Ranked can be challenging at the best of times. 

Thanks for sharing your perspective @DiddleDum As someone who works hard on my " adjusting my grip a quarter inch" I do feel the frustration that can result from that. 
We should remember that there are some in the game working hard at improving but still have a ways to go.

But if players have patience and do their best to keep posting aids like this one and other suggestions to help players, I believe we will see improvement.

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1 hour ago, GoaJim said:

For some, playing on the same team as a dummy who isn't trying to win takes the fun out of the game.

Do you know what the difference between you and the player you described here is? He isn't calling you names, and he isn't letting another player with a different play style ruin his gaming experience. Now seriously, who is the Dummy?

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I am not going include those that it is said about them don't care or want to learn. I am going to talk about those that are trying to get it and learn like me. When I started 2 years ago the game was overwhelming. So much to grasp on not only ship mechanics but just getting around and learn economics and such. I first took a like to DD's and trying to figure out when to push a cap and when not too. it took some failing and stubbornness to try to adapt. Went to cruisers to learn more on that not showing broadsides. Now I am learning how to make that turn without getting blap on broadside. Been also doing BB and having fun and learning. Starting to learn map awareness. Long story short.

There are a lot of really great players out there and there are those that are trying to learn and for some takes a lot of games just to get to a position where you can think you can help your team more. You have those that don't really want to take the effort to learn. What is sad and discouraging are those that are trying and you have a bad game and they get salt mines thrown at them. Also there seems to be different admirals who know what to do in every scenario but it is a dynamic battlefield. I have seen in a game one says to push and other is screaming get back. The game is really difficult and it is the prefect name for the mode "Random". Am I wrong to think that maybe we are asking to much from others the performance thing? If someone is trying their best at what level they are at should that be ok? If we really like this game should we all not promote this to keep the servers running or do we think we are entitled to have the cream of the crop only play this game? Like it or not this game need a lot of players and income coming in to keep servers running.  I really hope besides clan battles that Wargaming can come up with something or a game mode that all of you elite players can have those awesome battles you all talk about.

'

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1 hour ago, dionkraft said:

Many players are just playing for fun..not competing to win.  They just sail around mindlessly just shooting up not understanding any strategy or concept of the idea of the game. 

then they shouldn't be in ranked

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2 hours ago, JdeMolay said:

Since playing ranked this year, and I am certainly no unicum, I have been amazed at some team strategies that some players cannot grasp and seem hard.

I will place them in my order  of difficulty and comment. I would love to see your order, comments and additions.

1) Cruisers, especially radar cruisers need to position themselves where they can support the DD's with radar and fire at opposing DD's.

2) BB's, especially in ranked, need to move in to where they can support the above mentioned cruisers and shoot opponents DD's as well.

3) If an opposing DD is spotted and you can take a shot at it...do it. Don't just try to selfishly farm a BB. DD's become extremely powerful if left alive till later in the match

4) Focus fire and call out targets as well.

5) Complete lemming trains fail 98% of the time.If your team leaves you no choice and your ship really is not suitable to kiting the weak side, then the strong side has to push like maniacs. ( Lemming is still a bad idea though)

6) Yoloing, even if a brawler like a GK, or making yourself a target for the entire enemy team at the beginning of a match is.... well dare I say it....just dumb. Let your opponent get focused first. There will be plenty of chances to be aggressive when you know the positions of the reds.

7) Sometimes doing very little to nothing is called for. Example: if you are extremely low on health and one shot-able by most everything, for gosh sake's go dark...don't continue blazing away. You are worth points to your team by being alive.

 

These are my observations. I would love feedback on yours.

 

Most of these tips are solid. however, awareness of these tips only becomes revealed from Clan battles and perhaps arguably Operations. but there are no other areas in the games that reinforce you to use your consumables for others. 

Not every player is in a clan, not every clan CBs, so most of the population of the game, doesn't know the benefit of your recommendations and doesn't care to find it. 

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2 hours ago, JdeMolay said:

3) If an opposing DD is spotted and you can take a shot at it...do it. Don't just try to selfishly farm a BB. DD's become extremely powerful if left alive till later in the match 

^^ that one! That one frustrates me to no end! Too often you stick your neck out to spot the enemy dd or to flush him out of his smoke and no one shoots at it because they busy farming easy targets. smh.

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2 hours ago, JdeMolay said:

Since playing ranked this year, and I am certainly no unicum, I have been amazed at some team strategies that some players cannot grasp and seem hard.

I will place them in my order  of difficulty and comment. I would love to see your order, comments and additions.

1) Cruisers, especially radar cruisers need to position themselves where they can support the DD's with radar and fire at opposing DD's.

2) BB's, especially in ranked, need to move in to where they can support the above mentioned cruisers and shoot opponents DD's as well.

3) If an opposing DD is spotted and you can take a shot at it...do it. Don't just try to selfishly farm a BB. DD's become extremely powerful if left alive till later in the match

4) Focus fire and call out targets as well.

5) Complete lemming trains fail 98% of the time.If your team leaves you no choice and your ship really is not suitable to kiting the weak side, then the strong side has to push like maniacs. ( Lemming is still a bad idea though)

6) Yoloing, even if a brawler like a GK, or making yourself a target for the entire enemy team at the beginning of a match is.... well dare I say it....just dumb. Let your opponent get focused first. There will be plenty of chances to be aggressive when you know the positions of the reds.

7) Sometimes doing very little to nothing is called for. Example: if you are extremely low on health and one shot-able by most everything, for gosh sake's go dark...don't continue blazing away. You are worth points to your team by being alive.

 

These are my observations. I would love feedback on yours.

 

1.  I absolutely HATE playing the Moskva as a radar cruiser the way you describe.  To me, it's a kiting cruiser that's been burdened with a god damned radar that people demand you get in close and use.  And because of it's terrible maneuverability, you're sort of force to play as a bow tanker, another thing that I usually loathe doing.  I mind doing it much less in a Des Moines because if I manage my positioning well, I can get into positions where I can shoot unseen, something you can rarely do in a Moskva, due to its high velocity, low trajectory guns.

2. BBs need to play to their specific strengths.  Some are better in close while others are better if they can keep the enemy at arm's length (figuratively speaking).

3. Disagree.  This is a situational thing.  If an enemy DD is spotted and you're something like 15 or more km away in a BB, you're almost certainly wasting your shells (and reload time).  Better to shoot at something you have a decent chance of hitting.  OTOH, if that same DD is within 10-12 km or less, then it becomes a more reasonable option for a BB.

4. Agreed.

5.  You sure that it's not 95%?

6.  Agreed.

7.  Agree 100000000000000000%  But sadly, some people just can't resist the urge to shoot no matter what.

 

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2 hours ago, JdeMolay said:

Since playing ranked this year, and I am certainly no unicum, I have been amazed at some team strategies that some players cannot grasp and seem hard.

I will place them in my order  of difficulty and comment. I would love to see your order, comments and additions.

1) Cruisers, especially radar cruisers need to position themselves where they can support the DD's with radar and fire at opposing DD's.

2) BB's, especially in ranked, need to move in to where they can support the above mentioned cruisers and shoot opponents DD's as well.

3) If an opposing DD is spotted and you can take a shot at it...do it. Don't just try to selfishly farm a BB. DD's become extremely powerful if left alive till later in the match

4) Focus fire and call out targets as well.

5) Complete lemming trains fail 98% of the time.If your team leaves you no choice and your ship really is not suitable to kiting the weak side, then the strong side has to push like maniacs. ( Lemming is still a bad idea though)

6) Yoloing, even if a brawler like a GK, or making yourself a target for the entire enemy team at the beginning of a match is.... well dare I say it....just dumb. Let your opponent get focused first. There will be plenty of chances to be aggressive when you know the positions of the reds.

7) Sometimes doing very little to nothing is called for. Example: if you are extremely low on health and one shot-able by most everything, for gosh sake's go dark...don't continue blazing away. You are worth points to your team by being alive.

 

These are my observations. I would love feedback on yours.

 

#7 was one thing I learned early. When in a DD and low on HP I would stay dark and just spot for my team and spam torps.

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8 minutes ago, giovybez said:

Too often you stick your neck out to spot the enemy dd or to flush him out of his smoke and no one shoots at it

Consider other factors. it takes a long time to swing guns on the majority of the ships in the game. sure, if a wooster is behind you, roll your eyes, but if a yammy is behind you, consider things in his shooting priority list may be determined by the current quadrant his guns are pointing in. 

its best to announce your "flushing" the dd out and be aware if your backup is capable of engaging.

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3 minutes ago, awiggin said:

I'm amazed you've been playing this long, and still don't know who the player base is...:cap_wander:

Now, now..even Flamu had asked the question of why players keep making the same mistakes over and over.  I have asked that same question, time and time again. The answer I came up with is that they had no incentive to learn. It doesn't help that the ranking system incetivizes mediocre play with "save a star" system. Play enough games and you'll rank out..eventually..maybe. 

i got a lot of practice in clan battles on tm play.

22 minutes ago, JdeMolay said:

5) Complete lemming trains fail 98% of the time.If your team leaves you no choice and your ship really is not suitable to kiting the weak side, then the strong side has to push like maniacs. ( Lemming is still a bad idea though)

UU Conq..perfect ship for the weak side if there's a DD to spot for her. 

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1 minute ago, Bill_Halsey said:

Now, now..even Flamu had asked the question of why players keep making the same mistakes over and over.  I have asked that same question, time and time again. The answer I came up with is that they had no incentive to learn. It doesn't help that the ranking system incetivizes mediocre play with "save a star" system. Play enough games and you'll rank out..eventually..maybe. 

i got a lot of practice in clan battles on tm play.

UU Conq..perfect ship for the weak side if there's a DD to spot for her. 

I'm not picking on the players, I'm simply pointing out the facts....

The vast majority of players that come to this game (Over 80%), treat it like the arcade game it is. They come to sail ships and shoot stuff, and learning all the complex mechanics behind the scenes simply isn't on the menu.

This is why the game can't hold onto players, and why WG is so hungry to bring in new players they instituted a new invite system. Unfortunately is will simply be used to create more alts to milk the system, rather than bringing many actual new players to the game....

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