Lack of aggression, why?

[Skuggsja]

Dont get me wrong, I dont want people to zerg rush, but what is with the lack of resounding aggression in ranked? It's not even aggression always, but the lack of trying to find better positions.

Is it stay alive to save a star? Is it fear of being Dev Struck? Just a lack of knowledge or foresight?

I'm honestly curious as to why it happens so much. Im not trying to judge or argue, I get enough of that from CV talk.

However, I just watched another game be thrown because when it came down to, no one could retake a cap or fire on the 600HP Gearing to buy us points and time to win. 

I've also solo capped both A and B on the map that A is inside of B. No one took it for a bit so we got an easy point lead. Yet the team was mostly Well northeast of C just trading a few shots. I died when I saw a solo Yammy and Henri holding postion south of A/B. Unfortunately , the Henri easily ran me down while the CV spotted and dropped me. The enemy then took AB and held it while my spaced put and out of position team died and gave up points with no caps...

Maybe it's my Infantry side talking, but you find cover and concealment. You pin the enemy and you flank them. It's literally the U.S. Army's most basic battle drill and warrior task... 

So why is it so hard for people?

[Col_Nasty]

simple...they want the points for the win but are too chikensh to earn them.    All day every day.  Sitting in back .  funny is when they are barking orders in chat LOL.  Found one of our wanna be captains parked on the border calling names and goading people into pushing.  These people act like their pixelbote will actually break.

 

Just left a match with over 98K Damage  3 kills and a Cap and only 3 of us even tried to push or cap...its insane. we lost horribly. all the while doughnuts barking orders LOL

 

[EmperorMaxwell]

Lack of support more often than not. People want someone else to risk their HP for them wont often share that risk.

[Ensign_Pulver_2016]

24 minutes ago, Col_Nasty said:

Just left a match with over 98K Damage  3 kills and a Cap and only 3 of us even tried to push or cap...its insane. we lost horribly. all the while doughnuts barking orders LOL

My best ranked game this season, I was left in my Shima against a Hindenburg and half-health Shima. I had spotted alpha and disposed of one red Shima and significant damage on red Montana. All the while the CAs pushed me way south. 

My team left me with one of three caps and a two hundred point lead.

The best thing they did though, they didn't second guess my every move in chat.  One of the most evenly matched games I have played in ranked. None of the players on either team was below 700 xp.

[Taichunger]

1. Maps are crap. They force players to either crowd into choke points and die or sit back in spawn and spam shells. One of the root causes of camping is the crap-stupid, sterile, formulaic mapmaking at WG.

2. Anyone who pushes in dies right away. At T10 offense massively overpowers defense. One thing WG could do to encourage aggressive play is give people more armor or more useful heals.

3. Many of the best players have already ranked out or have left WOWs because the ReBork has dumbed down gameplay. Controlled, competent aggression is less seen.

I dont think the rentals are a big deal as they are almost non-existent below T10 and unlike Randoms, you can ESC to avoid Sky Griefers. Essentially, the problems of Ranked are the problems of T10 in general, just intensified. 

 

[SilverPhatShips]

T10 is a chess match one small mistake can be severely punished its all about positioning and not being the one focused.

 Hence T10 battles again sigh and not being aggressive

[Koogus]

10 minutes ago, silverdahc said:

T10 is a chess match one small mistake can be severely punished its all about positioning and not being the one focused.

 Hence T10 battles again sigh and not being aggressive

T10 matches are just people hiding behind islands and map edges the whole game.... I would describe t10 games as this because why not

 

[Bill_Halsey]

1 hour ago, Taichunger said:

1. Maps are crap. They force players to either crowd into choke points and die or sit back in spawn and spam shells. One of the root causes of camping is the crap-stupid, sterile, formulaic mapmaking at WG.

2. Anyone who pushes in dies right away. At T10 offense massively overpowers defense. One thing WG could do to encourage aggressive play is give people more armor or more useful heals.

3. Many of the best players have already ranked out or have left WOWs because the ReBork has dumbed down gameplay. Controlled, competent aggression is less seen.

I dont think the rentals are a big deal as they are almost non-existent below T10 and unlike Randoms, you can ESC to avoid Sky Griefers. Essentially, the problems of Ranked are the problems of T10 in general, just intensified. 

 

I agree with all 3 points. It's almost like fighting tanks in the Ocean.

Interestingly enough.. Conqueror is the one ship that can tank very well. UU Conq? A BB that can maneuver just as well or better than some CA's.

Still some decent ones trudging thru.

 

[Bill_Halsey]

2 hours ago, EmperorMaxwell said:

Lack of support more often than not. People want someone else to risk their HP for them wont often share that risk.

Funny you should mention that...WG should had awarded me a lot more dreadnought flags

Spoiler

 

[Bill_Halsey]

2 hours ago, Skuggsja said:

Dont get me wrong, I dont want people to zerg rush, but what is with the lack of resounding aggression in ranked? It's not even aggression always, but the lack of trying to find better positions.

Is it stay alive to save a star? Is it fear of being Dev Struck? Just a lack of knowledge or foresight?

I'm honestly curious as to why it happens so much. Im not trying to judge or argue, I get enough of that from CV talk.

However, I just watched another game be thrown because when it came down to, no one could retake a cap or fire on the 600HP Gearing to buy us points and time to win. 

I've also solo capped both A and B on the map that A is inside of B. No one took it for a bit so we got an easy point lead. Yet the team was mostly Well northeast of C just trading a few shots. I died when I saw a solo Yammy and Henri holding postion south of A/B. Unfortunately , the Henri easily ran me down while the CV spotted and dropped me. The enemy then took AB and held it while my spaced put and out of position team died and gave up points with no caps...

Maybe it's my Infantry side talking, but you find cover and concealment. You pin the enemy and you flank them. It's literally the U.S. Army's most basic battle drill and warrior task... 

So why is it so hard for people?

It' more lack of knowledge and foresight:

 

1. Do you know your ship?

2. Do you know what the red side's ships are capable of?

3. Do you know the map your playing on?

4. Do you know the best spots on the map to maximize pressure in the other side?

 

if you answer "yes" to all, the you can dictate the tempo.

 

[Cpt_Snafu_Idgaf]

Worst is when you do push and no one takes advantage of it. You’d think the players being as selfish as they are would be all over it like flies on poop. Dreadnaught and fireproof are probably the two medals I’ve earned the most.  It’s just really frustrating when no one takes advantage. 

[carne]

That and they keep pushing out ships that discourage aggression. No one wants to push when being spotted by a CV and spammed by 40,000 HE shells a second. 

[SYST3M_OVERIDE]

Happens all to often. Match starts. We cap a cap or 2. Enemy team starts to take a cap. Everyone scatters like the enemy is carrying the plague. Then it's just myself and maybe 1 other person trying to take on the entire enemy team. If you have a cap you need to defend it. So sick of this happening over and over I've called it quits for ranked. I will openly admit I'm not that good of a player but at least I try

[Final8ty]

5 hours ago, Skuggsja said:

Don't get me wrong, I don't want people to zerg rush, but what is with the lack of resounding aggression in ranked? It's not even aggression always, but the lack of trying to find better positions.

Is it stay alive to save a star? Is it fear of being Dev Struck? Just a lack of knowledge or foresight?

I'm honestly curious as to why it happens so much. I'm not trying to judge or argue, I get enough of that from CV talk.

However, I just watched another game be thrown because when it came down to, no one could retake a cap or fire on the 600HP Gearing to buy us points and time to win. 

I've also solo capped both A and B on the map that A is inside of B. No one took it for a bit so we got an easy point lead. Yet the team was mostly Well northeast of C just trading a few shots. I died when I saw a solo Yammy and Henri holding position south of A/B. Unfortunately , the Henri easily ran me down while the CV spotted and dropped me. The enemy then took AB and held it while my spaced put and out of position team died and gave up points with no caps...

Maybe it's my Infantry side talking, but you find cover and concealment. You pin the enemy and you flank them. It's literally the U.S. Army's most basic battle drill and warrior task... 

So why is it so hard for people?

 

I see this all the time.

Its pure lazy damage farming.

If they can hit just a single ship from where they are they will not move, better positions and objectives are the last things on their minds those are for the DDs only apparently.

I have taken all 3 caps for them to take them all back with my team making no effort to defend them.

[Final8ty]

4 hours ago, Col_Nasty said:

simple...they want the points for the win but are too chikensh to earn them.    All day every day.  Sitting in back .  funny is when they are barking orders in chat LOL.  Found one of our wanna be captains parked on the border calling names and goading people into pushing.  These people act like their pixelbote will actually break.

 

Just left a match with over 98K Damage  3 kills and a Cap and only 3 of us even tried to push or cap...its insane. we lost horribly. all the while doughnuts barking orders LOL

 

Yeah the guy furthest away barking orders is becoming more common. 

[Final8ty]

55 minutes ago, carne said:

That and they keep pushing out ships that discourage aggression. No one wants to push when being spotted by a CV and spammed by 40,000 HE shells a second. 

Indeed and people thought the Haru DD was bad there are 2 cruisers coming out that walks all over that for HE shell spam.

[StoneRhino]

4 hours ago, Taichunger said:

2. Anyone who pushes in dies right away. At T10 offense massively overpowers defense. One thing WG could do to encourage aggressive play is give people more armor or more useful heals.

 

 

1 hour ago, carne said:

That and they keep pushing out ships that discourage aggression. No one wants to push when being spotted by a CV and spammed by 40,000 HE shells a second. 

These two combined. Simply the only armor you have against HE spam is to be undetected or outside of their range.

For me CVs allow for more aggressive play because they are the best scouts. but most players are so afraid of getting spotted that they just hang further back.

[emmapulido]

2 hours ago, StoneRhino said:

 

These two combined. Simply the only armor you have against HE spam is to be undetected or outside of their range.

For me CVs allow for more aggressive play because they are the best scouts. but most players are so afraid of getting spotted that they just hang further back.

I've seen that CV matches make everyone work together a lot better, making aggressive plays and pushes, CA/L and BBs actually capping instead of sitting behind and island spamming shells. 

With CV in ranked, DD captains seem to forget radar even exist though. Usually, when there's a CVs, DDs tread a lot more carefully, when capping. When there isnt CVs they just rush caps, get radared and die. But of course, this can happen in reverse and stuff. Just saying what I've seen.

[Amenhir]

Lower tiers typically have players who play more aggressively, because you can do more without fear of being instantly removed, and the ships can't shoot clear across the map.  I have gotten to the point that any time someone raises any questions about this game I assume they're referring to high tier play, since that is the end all and be all of this game.  High tier is stagnant because turning left when you should have turned right can result in deletion.  You've got dds equipped with torps with extreme ranges, guns with extreme ranges and better accuracy,  radar everywhere and the most potent CVs.  Everything about the higher tiers is counter productive to "aggression."  It's like that old saying "If we're being chased by a bear, I don't have to out run the bear, I only have to out run you."  No one wants to be the slow guy caught by the bear.  Remember, low tier is your job and high tier is your hobby

[C10Khon]

5 hours ago, Final8ty said:

Yeah the guy furthest away barking orders is becoming more common. 

You mean the guy already sunk barking orders usually. Although I've seen a Yamato reverse to the map edge and start yelling he needs intelligence data but will not push up and constantly blame everyone else for not pushing caps. Oh and it was not a rental. 

[Final8ty]

1 minute ago, C10Khon said:

You mean the guy already sunk barking orders usually. Although I've seen a Yamato reverse to the map edge and start yelling he needs intelligence data but will not push up and constantly blame everyone else for not pushing caps. Oh and it was not a rental. 

And the sunk ones yes.

[grorg]

Zerg rush lol oh man the good times Jim seconds your motion

[Skpstr]

11 hours ago, Skuggsja said:

Maybe it's my Infantry side talking, but you find cover and concealment. You pin the enemy and you flank them. It's literally the U.S. Army's most basic battle drill and warrior task... 

So why is it so hard for people?

Something you didn't have to deal with back in your infantry days was a squad made up of untrained equal-rank officers, who can all do their own thing as they see fit lol.....

I mean, isn't one of the main points of boot camp to condition you to accept simple orders (not including moral qualms) from a recognised leader without question? If you're told to go over there and lay down cover fire, you do it.

[Nukelavee45]

31 minutes ago, Skpstr said:

Something you didn't have to deal with back in your infantry days was a squad made up of untrained equal-rank officers, who can all do their own thing as they see fit lol.....

I mean, isn't one of the main points of boot camp to condition you to accept simple orders (not including moral qualms) from a recognised leader without question? If you're told to go over there and lay down cover fire, you do it.

I seem to recall some factions during the Spanish Civil War did have that sort of issue...

I dunno.  My philosophy at all tiers is be clever/sneaky about positioning/repositioning, and periods of outright speed and violence.  As far as I'm concerned, low speed/parking/backing up is death, speed is your friend.  Give up mobility, and become an awesome target.  I'm not saying charge into knife fighting range ASAP,  but sitting back is just asking to get flanked by somebody.  And try getting out from under a rainbow of shells from a standing start. 

Myself, I try to work flanks, at range, until I get "behind" - where I can start freaking out the ships snuggled up to islands with no place to go.

Also - it's pretty bad when I'm khapping in my Khab so often.

 

[User_the_n00b]

11 hours ago, Col_Nasty said:

simple...they want the points for the win but are too chikensh to earn them.    All day every day.  Sitting in back .  funny is when they are barking orders in chat LOL.  Found one of our wanna be captains parked on the border calling names and goading people into pushing.  These people act like their pixelbote will actually break.

 

 

If you're not pushing for a reason "i know there's three DDs over there, cruisers help please?" Yes, fine. But the only thing more annoying than a full health BB in the back barking orders is the guy who YOLOd, died instantly, complained about no support, and is now barking orders.

Dear Wargaming -

Feature request. If you click the map more than fives times in a 10 second period, your ship should explode. If you're already dead, your account should be banned for 24 hours. 

Sincerely,

Humanity. 

 

Though, to be honest, in the real world, it is some guy parked on the border (or in an office) calling you names and ordering you to push. You know, the Admiral.