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xalmgrey

CV's need CAP fighters

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CV's need to be able to fight each other for sky control. We need our CAP fighters back so we can fight each other more and take pressure off the surface ships. I used to run the 3/1/1 Ryujo so i could keep the skies clear for the ships to fight it out more. Right now we have no way to really fight each other. With CV's having extreme AA to stop carrier sniping there's zero reason for us to go after the other CV in the match.

Giving CV something else to do than farm damage off surface ships would probably help ease tensions, and frankly i miss fighting for control of the skies.

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Just now, xalmgrey said:

Giving CV something else to do than farm damage off surface ships ....

1

I'm trying to imagine a BB main being bored with shooting shells. 

But then I'm a flying potato so actually landing a  hit is a good game for me.

 

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As a CV I fully agree. It is beyond frustrating that in order to counter another CV I need to fly over to where their squad is to drop fighters.

It would be much better if I could go to the minimap, and select where to send my fighters to. Of course they could be made to not spot ships and the like so they can't be abused, or that could in and of itself be a trade off (get early spots and lack a counter to enemy CV).

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Just now, Anonymous50 said:

I'm trying to imagine a BB main being bored with shooting shells. 

But then I'm a flying potato so actually landing a  hit is a good game for me.

 

It's about strategy. I find myself enjoying the strategy.

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1 minute ago, lucas1899 said:

As a CV I fully agree. It is beyond frustrating that in order to counter another CV I need to fly over to where their squad is to drop fighters.

It would be much better if I could go to the minimap, and select where to send my fighters to. Of course they could be made to not spot ships and the like so they can't be abused, or that could in and of itself be a trade off (get early spots and lack a counter to enemy CV).

Yeah and having to "wait" for it to arrive is less than helpful.

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9 minutes ago, xalmgrey said:

CV's need to be able to fight each other for sky control. We need our CAP fighters back so we can fight each other more and take pressure off the surface ships. I used to run the 3/1/1 Ryujo so i could keep the skies clear for the ships to fight it out more. Right now we have no way to really fight each other. With CV's having extreme AA to stop carrier sniping there's zero reason for us to go after the other CV in the match.

Giving CV something else to do than farm damage off surface ships would probably help ease tensions, and frankly i miss fighting for control of the skies.

Sorry, but wasn't that one of the primary reasons they went with the rework?   Massive skill gap, with one CV immediately shutting down the other?

I think the other primary reason for the rework was the RTS view and being difficult to multi-task.     Guess you could ask for that back, too.

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I think that having the fighters fly from the CV to the area you want to defend would be good. It would prevent dropping fighters all the time on enemy squadrons, meaning you have to think about where they should go, and at the same time make sense, as it takes time to get fighters from the carrier to where you want them.

The fighters would be need to be treated like any other squadron for regeneration though, so that having enemy fighters counter yours actually hurts.

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Just now, DiddleDum said:

Sorry, but wasn't that one of the primary reasons they went with the rework?   Massive skill gap, with one CV immediately shutting down the other?

I think the other primary reason for the rework was the RTS view and being difficult to multi-task.     Guess you could ask for that back, too.

They've missed the mark on so many things on why they went with this rework. That skill gap is still there. 

It seems so silly that CV's cannot fight for air superiority save for that silly fighter consumable which is mostly used to spot.

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4 minutes ago, DiddleDum said:

Sorry, but wasn't that one of the primary reasons they went with the rework?   Massive skill gap, with one CV immediately shutting down the other?

I think the other primary reason for the rework was the RTS view and being difficult to multi-task.     Guess you could ask for that back, too.


I agree that it is hard to multi-task. I think it is reasonable here as the fighter consumable currently doesn't work very well for its intended purpose unless you spend your games countering enemy squadrons. Changing them to be more like a normal squaron that you simply click to send somewhere (like your CV) would allow a lot more counterplay, and make fighters actually be able to do their job.

Also, with the ability to counter each other, that should mean CV's can be given back their speed and damage, as fighters can and should limit their ability to get squads on target.

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16 minutes ago, xalmgrey said:

CV's need to be able to fight each other for sky control. We need our CAP fighters back so we can fight each other more and take pressure off the surface ships. I used to run the 3/1/1 Ryujo so i could keep the skies clear for the ships to fight it out more. Right now we have no way to really fight each other. With CV's having extreme AA to stop carrier sniping there's zero reason for us to go after the other CV in the match.

Giving CV something else to do than farm damage off surface ships would probably help ease tensions, and frankly i miss fighting for control of the skies.

3-1-1 is why the rts is gone. I played alot of cv rts but this style is better.

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I agree that the skill gap is still there - maybe not so severe, but it's obvious there's a difference, or we'd be welcoming the CVs on our team to wreak the same havoc that the red CV is doing.

The fighter consumable is about as laughable as the ship launched fighter planes.   Maybe good for a placebo effect, as they don't seem to impact the attack too much.     

Given the way the flight model is today, would a fighter squad work?    In lieu of sending up attack planes, you use your fighters.    While you could chase and defend (until they F-key), the use of fighters would negate your damage potential.    Would that be a suitable trade?

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Just now, lucas1899 said:


I agree that it is hard to multi-task. I think it is reasonable here as the fighter consumable currently doesn't work very well for its intended purpose unless you spend your games countering enemy squadrons. Changing them to be more like a normal squaron that you simply click to send somewhere (like your CV) would allow a lot more counterplay, and make fighters actually be able to do their job.

Also, with the ability to counter each other, that should mean CV's can be given back their speed and damage, as fighters can and should limit their ability to get squads on target.

One of the reasons i want to see this back is to give surface ships some breathing room. I know from playing lately that i can be on top of the enemy DD basically right out of the gates since it's pretty easy to predict mirror spawning. 

That would change if the other CV could actually counter that. 

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Just now, DiddleDum said:

I agree that the skill gap is still there - maybe not so severe, but it's obvious there's a difference, or we'd be welcoming the CVs on our team to wreak the same havoc that the red CV is doing.

The fighter consumable is about as laughable as the ship launched fighter planes.   Maybe good for a placebo effect, as they don't seem to impact the attack too much.     

Given the way the flight model is today, would a fighter squad work?    In lieu of sending up attack planes, you use your fighters.    While you could chase and defend (until they F-key), the use of fighters would negate your damage potential.    Would that be a suitable trade?

My idea more is that instead of the fighter dropping on your flying squad, you can send it anywhere. E.g. you point and click on the map and the fighters fly there and can be intercepted in route.

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Fly your strike, control click a likely surface unit to call in cap support. That code is relatively easy to put together and your CV would become the most popular player on the team for just that alone.

1 cap per carrier, flies until retasked with another click. Time limit of fuel and ammunition, including fly back, repair and spotting for next launch.

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3 minutes ago, jags_domain said:

3-1-1 is why the rts is gone. I played alot of cv rts but this style is better.

Oh i agree. This style is better. However i miss being able to choose to fight other CV over damage loads for surface ships. 3/1/1 was great for that.

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4 minutes ago, lucas1899 said:

My idea more is that instead of the fighter dropping on your flying squad, you can send it anywhere. E.g. you point and click on the map and the fighters fly there and can be intercepted in route.

 

4 minutes ago, cavscout1739 said:

Fly your strike, control click a likely surface unit to call in cap support. That code is relatively easy to put together and your CV would become the most popular player on the team for just that alone.

1 cap per carrier, flies until retasked with another click. Time limit of fuel and ammunition, including fly back, repair and spotting for next launch.

These are actually pretty good ideas.    It doesn't break the current mode of play, and allows the fighter to be useful.    

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2 minutes ago, xalmgrey said:

Oh i agree. This style is better. However i miss being able to choose to fight other CV over damage loads for surface ships. 3/1/1 was great for that.

Early on I would get on a sq 6 and start looking for the red button to splash the baddies!  

It would be interesting to have it in the game. Unfortunitly I see it ending up were I can only play Sipan or somthing.

How ever with this stay of game mode ot would be a lot more interessting and might actuy work.

WG if your reading this please let us try this in a Holloween mode or somthing.

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The option still exists to fly around being a d*ck to the other carrier by littering the skies with fighters. You just have to fly over manually to drop them.

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1 minute ago, Edgecase said:

The option still exists to fly around being a d*ck to the other carrier by littering the skies with fighters. You just have to fly over manually to drop them.

Yeah but it's easy to avoid and bait out. It's not really very effective.

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2 minutes ago, Edgecase said:

The option still exists to fly around being a d*ck to the other carrier by littering the skies with fighters. You just have to fly over manually to drop them.

Yea I have had cv follow me around for a long time.

CV player we need to stick together on this one.

Edited by jags_domain

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5 minutes ago, xalmgrey said:

Yeah but it's easy to avoid and bait out. It's not really very effective.

They're effective at increasing the cost of enemy strikes, or making them spend time striking elsewhere. No deterrent should be 100% effective, or the game would get campy.

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Just now, Edgecase said:

They're effective at increasing the cost of enemy strikes, or making them spend time striking elsewhere. No deterrent should be 100% effective, or the game would get campy.

Agreed. I'm looking for a middle ground though. Something better or more controllable than the drop. Something i can actively use more often to fight the enemy CV with. If it got to be a bit more CV VS CV i think things would smooth out for the rest of the ships VS where we are right now.

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Air-to-Air was how Pre-CV Rework Carriers dominated each other.  The moment "Strafe" was implemented in late 2015, it forever changed how Carriers interacted with each other with the better player establishing dominance.  A good CV player could dominate two lesser CV players.  Which was what WG wanted to prevent with the Rework, the massive gap in skill that "Shutdown" the other carrier with the better player.

 

Before the Rework, I remember playing Tier V Bogue.  I had a Tier IV Langley teammate.  I faced an enemy V Zuiho and IV Langley.  I had a clear, better understanding how to play my CV, how to do Strafes, etc. while my 2 CV opponents didn't.  My Langley teammate wasn't that good.  So it was on me alone to contest the skies.

The end result was I had "Clear Sky" and almost completely deplaned my 2 CV opponents before I needed to rearm my first fighter unit sent out.  Once I rearmed, I finished the shutdown of my 2 CV opponents by destroying all aircraft and then contributing to surface ship damage, spotting.

The funny part was I was never a good CV player.

Edited by HazeGrayUnderway

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6 minutes ago, xalmgrey said:

If it got to be a bit more CV VS CV i think things would smooth out for the rest of the ships VS where we are right now.

No, this is the specific part that needed to go away, because it was directly responsible for amplifying the CV skill gap. The game uses a soft RPS balance model, ships shouldn't be the strongest solo counter to their own archetype, especially when hard-limited to 1 of each per match.

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39 minutes ago, xalmgrey said:

CV's need to be able to fight each other for sky control. We need our CAP fighters back so we can fight each other more and take pressure off the surface ships. I used to run the 3/1/1 Ryujo so i could keep the skies clear for the ships to fight it out more. Right now we have no way to really fight each other. With CV's having extreme AA to stop carrier sniping there's zero reason for us to go after the other CV in the match.

Giving CV something else to do than farm damage off surface ships would probably help ease tensions, and frankly i miss fighting for control of the skies.

CV can already fight for sky control and fight each other, cap and do so all the while exposed to danger. I even got complements after just to complete the MEME.

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