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destroyer_1000_485

is it me or do teir 8 ships not belong in teir 9 and 10 battles

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With more experience, you will learn to adjust your play style a bit when facing tier 9 and 10 ships.  Tier 8 ships can absolutely compete and make an impact.  Don't expect to charge to the front line and start blasting away like you own the place, or it WON'T end well.

Patience and strategy will take you far.

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There is plenty of people who will agree with you, but you really need to step back and take a look at it. You have 400 games and are facing ships 2 tiers higher in already high tier games. Its gonna be risky business any way you spin it. 

 

It's not meant to be easy. Sometimes you get the upper hand, sometimes you have an uphill battle. It's the harsh games that are the best teachers.

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@destroyer_1000_485 424 battles and already playing against tier 9 and 10! What is your hurry? With your battle count you should expect such battles to not end well. Go back to the lower tiers and stay away from tiers 8, 9 and 10 for 3600 battles. That might be time enough to learn how to do well consistently.

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I think you're rushing up that BB line too quickly and need to learn a little more about how to deal damage more effectively before you push in to the top tiers of the game.

Go back down to T4-T5 and once you can do consistent damage move up to the next tier and repeat. You will survive longer and earn more credits as well. You'll need those credits to help offset credit loss in the highest tiers when you have bad games.

 

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7 minutes ago, _1204_ said:

It's not meant to be easy. Sometimes you get the upper hand, sometimes you have an uphill battle. It's the harsh games that are the best teachers.

Only if you recognize your limits and lessons learned;

For example; Implacable in an effectively T10 game on EpiTears.

Spent most of the game scouting, running hither and yon to drop fighters, and only very rarely attacking, (effectively only rare snipes at an isolated Bismark when I wasn’t busy elsewhere,) eventually managed to torp the heavily damaged (mostly by other teammates,) Bismarck to death, and actually got a GJ from someone. A win.

I normally hate high tier games, but for me that was a seemingly rare good game.

 

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41 minutes ago, destroyer_1000_485 said:

I played a  battle and with teir  9 and 10 ships it didn't end well

It is definitely you.

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Good players will do well no matter what the matchmaking is. Average and below average players are put at an additional disadvantage due to matchmaking..... Just the way it is, it isn't fair and there are plenty of people who dislike matchmaking. My advice is to load HE and shoot at the highest tier ship within range. Farm damage on them as you get paid more than if you hit lower tier or same tier ships. 

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Planned on leaving a solid answer but the folks above me beat me to it, fully expected it to be full of just "it's you" comments. [edit... and as I'm typing this, that "it's you" comment lands lol]

 

Nothing will ever beat experience. Keep grinding away, maybe watch a few vids on angling/positioning/ect... and try to put them to use in PvE before heading back into battles against people that have thousands of battles. Or just get used to getting your *** kicked for a long while in random games.

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Its not easy, some ship lines can handle it a bit better than others. I watched a dude in a Cleveland the other day absolutely troll a yamato for like 5 min straight and managed a kill on him.

Edited by JimmyNumale

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45 minutes ago, desmo_2 said:

With more experience, you will learn to adjust your play style a bit when facing tier 9 and 10 ships.  Tier 8 ships can absolutely compete and make an impact.  Don't expect to charge to the front line and start blasting away like you own the place, or it WON'T end well.

Patience and strategy will take you far.

^100% This!!!

I was in a tier 10 battle with my tier 8 BB Vladivostok, and managed to do 107k damage.  Sadly, it was a loss, but a close battle.  

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Some say yes, some say no, I will tell you, that I preferred grinding most of the tier 8s more than most of the tier 9s.

Edited by Sovereigndawg

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15 minutes ago, Taylor3006 said:

Good players will do well no matter what the matchmaking is. Average and below average players are put at an additional disadvantage due to matchmaking..... Just the way it is, it isn't fair and there are plenty of people who dislike matchmaking. My advice is to load HE and shoot at the highest tier ship within range. Farm damage on them as you get paid more than if you hit lower tier or same tier ships. 

 

Not sure what you mean by good vs average vs below average players.  I'm barely above average in WR at only about 51.5%, IIRC, and my average damage is almost 45k.  OTOH, there's a regular poster to the forum whose WR is only about 1% point less than mine, and yet his average damage is about 25k, which I find shockingly low for a veteran (cruiser) player with over 7k battles.  I could go on from there, but it doesn't get any prettier.  (From a closer look at this player's stats, it appears that he's stat padded his WR a little bit in the low tiers.)

Anyways, I have no doubt that a player like I described probably hates +/-2 tier MM.  But should WG be catering to players who are, to put it bluntly, so bad at the game?  I don't mean to sound overly elitist because I'm no unicum.  But it's sad when a player with over 7k battles under his belt can't manage to break a 30k average damage in a Worcester after about a couple dozen games.  Makes me wonder if such a player just isn't serious about his play, or if he has some challenge that makes it difficult to play decently, or something.

 

BTW, Taylor, I'd have PM'd this reply to you, but for some reason you have PMs blocked.

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You won't enjoy the advantage of playing T8 and being in a T6, T7, and T8 match. However you can compete. Be patient. Depends on what ship your using, learn to play defensively. Remember, if your a T8 in a T10 match, the enemy has a equivalent of you on their side too.

If your in a CV, more spotting, especially at the start. Have to wait till your side softens them up a bit.

If your in a BB, you might could slip into more of a battlecruiser mode. AP cruisers you find and HE top tier BB's and DD's

If your in a cruiser, your a extra set of secondary's for BB's

If your a DD, you can kind of play like you would normally. Just have to be more mindful your HP is lower than your adversaries.

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1 hour ago, destroyer_1000_485 said:

I played a  battle and with teir  9 and 10 ships it didn't end well

Two major factors make tier 8 matchmaking horrible for T8 players. One is server population, more T10 ships in the queue at any given time than T9 & T8's but not enough for T10 only matches. WG wants to get people into battle ASAP, 5 minute maximum wait for random battles. I've seen to report & T8's were bottomed tiered 45% & over 50% of the time. The only thing working in favor of T8 players is the increasing number of people playing T10 ships with commanders several point lower than 19pts.

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I think most Tier 8 ships are more than capable of competing in Tier 10 battles...although I think there are valid complaints about the frequency in which Tier 8 ships find themselves bottom tier.  

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Some T8's are happier in T10 MM than others.

Most T8's will require additional attention.

Myself, at T8 I do resent T10 MM happening too much of the time and I do adjust my playstyle accordingly.

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1 hour ago, Crucis said:

 

Not sure what you mean by good vs average vs below average players.  I'm barely above average in WR at only about 51.5%, IIRC, and my average damage is almost 45k.  OTOH, there's a regular poster to the forum whose WR is only about 1% point less than mine, and yet his average damage is about 25k, which I find shockingly low for a veteran (cruiser) player with over 7k battles.  I could go on from there, but it doesn't get any prettier.  (From a closer look at this player's stats, it appears that he's stat padded his WR a little bit in the low tiers.)

Anyways, I have no doubt that a player like I described probably hates +/-2 tier MM.  But should WG be catering to players who are, to put it bluntly, so bad at the game?  I don't mean to sound overly elitist because I'm no unicum.  But it's sad when a player with over 7k battles under his belt can't manage to break a 30k average damage in a Worcester after about a couple dozen games.  Makes me wonder if such a player just isn't serious about his play, or if he has some challenge that makes it difficult to play decently, or something.

 

BTW, Taylor, I'd have PM'd this reply to you, but for some reason you have PMs blocked.

Dunno about PMs, no worries though don't mind chatting in public.

There are good players and then there are experienced players. IMHO anyone over 50% is good, I mean you are better than average. I am an experienced player, I know what do and how to use my ships, just not very good. Course my stats are skewed because I always play to whatever reward I am trying to farm and not necessarily to winning since I only go to PvP to farm rewards so I am below average somewhere (not sure where honesty, maybe 40%). Just statistically, the majority of the players are average or below average and matchmaking punishes them. Course if they grind up to tiers 9 & 10, they get thrown the tier 8 sacrifices, but more often than not, they are just food for the better players. It isn't fair, never has been fair, and shouldn't be tolerated in a game. If people were really fine with +2/-2 MM they would argue its inclusion in all competitive events like Clan Wars and Ranked. We know they won't do this because it would be seen as unfair.... It is all too stupid and personally I am weary of it.

I have never been interested enough to look at someone else's numbers. I don't even care what mine are as I don't see this game as competition. I have never put any thought to how or why someone is where they are but I can understand the frustration of being low tier fighting high tier ships. That is the reason I left PvP at tier 5 (was grinding Omaha, you can imagine). One of my best friends IRL quit the game because of MM, staying only long enough to get a tier 6 ship and fighting a battle out of friendship. He hated the game because he didn't see it as fair. He was competitive and has played competitive games with me for decades. He also thought the game was pointless and this is where we differed. Since I don't see the game as a competition, I play for rewards and fun. I don't care about stats so losing is irrelevant in this game unlike most others I have played where if you lose, you lose all your stuff. That is competition and that gets the juices going when you lose everything if you fail. Here (and WG other titles) you may lose some credits...…….  It is all meaningless as competitive play.

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Call me crazy but I enjoy taking a tier 8 into a tier 10 fight but is also ship dependent.

If my Atago gets pulled into a tier 10 fight , woohoo, better concealment, 10km torps, 19 point captain . You just play it differently as a support ship in tier 10 whereas if top tier can be much more agressive. Some tier 8 dds do very well in tier 10s as long as you know your radar ranges by ship type.

An Amagi can hold its own as can the Alabama and Mass. I often am in tier 10 fights in my Vanguard and it does OK. Sadly the German tier 8s struggle for me in tier 10 as they are brawlers and get focussed so I find it ship dependent. You must adjust your playstyle , your not the bully in the playground anymore, you need to become a gangmember as tier 8 in a tier 10 fight.

Why do I enjoy it? You learn more, and the rewards are greater when you do well. Also remember if you are pulled into tier 10, then someone on the red team is also in the same boat. Do better than him and you will help your team win.

Now im just a very average player, but continue to learn even after 1,000's of battles

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10 minutes ago, Taylor3006 said:

Dunno about PMs, no worries though don't mind chatting in public.

There are good players and then there are experienced players. IMHO anyone over 50% is good, I mean you are better than average. I am an experienced player, I know what do and how to use my ships, just not very good. Course my stats are skewed because I always play to whatever reward I am trying to farm and not necessarily to winning since I only go to PvP to farm rewards so I am below average somewhere (not sure where honesty, maybe 40%). Just statistically, the majority of the players are average or below average and matchmaking punishes them. Course if they grind up to tiers 9 & 10, they get thrown the tier 8 sacrifices, but more often than not, they are just food for the better players. It isn't fair, never has been fair, and shouldn't be tolerated in a game. If people were really fine with +2/-2 MM they would argue its inclusion in all competitive events like Clan Wars and Ranked. We know they won't do this because it would be seen as unfair.... It is all too stupid and personally I am weary of it.

I have never been interested enough to look at someone else's numbers. I don't even care what mine are as I don't see this game as competition. I have never put any thought to how or why someone is where they are but I can understand the frustration of being low tier fighting high tier ships. That is the reason I left PvP at tier 5 (was grinding Omaha, you can imagine). One of my best friends IRL quit the game because of MM, staying only long enough to get a tier 6 ship and fighting a battle out of friendship. He hated the game because he didn't see it as fair. He was competitive and has played competitive games with me for decades. He also thought the game was pointless and this is where we differed. Since I don't see the game as a competition, I play for rewards and fun. I don't care about stats so losing is irrelevant in this game unlike most others I have played where if you lose, you lose all your stuff. That is competition and that gets the juices going when you lose everything if you fail. Here (and WG other titles) you may lose some credits...…….  It is all meaningless as competitive play.

I only wanted to PM you because the discussion of player stats and their validity when it comes to their credibility in a discussion is a touchy one.

Also, I usually only look up player stats when I'm curious to see how good (or otherwise) a player is who is involved in a discussion I'm a part of.  I link a player's credibility to their stats, but I also use it to judge their perspective on the topic at hand.

If it sounded like I was trying to be competitive with the player I mentioned, I really wasn't.  But when a player can't manage even a 30k average damage in a Worcester, there's something wrong.  Short of getting unexpectedly dev struck, I can probably manage to do 50k damage in my sleep in a Worcester, and it's not exactly one of my favorite ships.

It doesn't matter what tier a battle's at, a subpar player is always going to be just food for better players.  In the tier 5 ranked sprint, the better players were all but seal clubbing the lesser players in nearly every battle.  What do you really expect?  The cream rises to the top.

As for your argument about arguing for +/-2 tier MM in Ranked and CBs, that's just nonsense.  Of course, people in bottom or middle tier ships are at a bit of a disadvantage.  The point of the exercise is to learn to deal with it and become a better player.  You don't get to be a better player by playing tier 10's against tier 5 bots or bad players in tier 5s.  You get better through adversity.  But the point of Ranked and CBs is that they *are* competitive events, and they want all the players to be on a level playing field.  You're not there to learn how to play your ship better (though it can happen).  You're there to compete against other players in same tier ships.

 

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Just now, digger52 said:

Call me crazy but I enjoy taking a tier 8 into a tier 10 fight but is also ship dependent.

If my Atago gets pulled into a tier 10 fight , woohoo, better concealment, 10km torps, 19 point captain . You just play it differently as a support ship in tier 10 whereas if top tier can be much more agressive. Some tier 8 dds do very well in tier 10s as long as you know your radar ranges by ship type.

An Amagi can hold its own as can the Alabama and Mass. I often am in tier 10 fights in my Vanguard and it does OK. Sadly the German tier 8s struggle for me in tier 10 as they are brawlers and get focussed so I find it ship dependent. You must adjust your playstyle , your not the bully in the playground anymore, you need to become a gangmember as tier 8 in a tier 10 fight.

Why do I enjoy it? You learn more, and the rewards are greater when you do well. Also remember if you are pulled into tier 10, then someone on the red team is also in the same boat. Do better than him and you will help your team win.

Now im just a very average player, but continue to learn even after 1,000's of battles

My gripe with the Atago (and perhaps it's true for the 8" gunned Mogami as well) is their short gun range.  They're not like CLs that have high shell trajectories that can hide behind islands and shoot unseen.  The Atago has to work in the open, and having only a 15.8k gun range is, IMO, rather limiting.  I prefer the Prinz Eugen, for example, because its gun range is around 17.5km, which I find a bit more workable as it provides that little extra amount of time to dodge incoming shells that can be the difference between life and death.

I agree with you, that one has to adapt their play when bottom tier.  You have to support the tier 10's, not pretend that you're a top tier ship.  I think that this is a big part of the problem with people who complain about +/-2 tier MM.  They don't want to adjust.  They want to play the exact same way all the time in their ship.  They don't want to accept that an Alabama shouldn't be pretending that it's a Montana.  It should be supporting that Montana on their team.

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My advice all around, no matter what ship type you're playing, is that if you find yourself as bottom tier in any tier of ship then you need to ease off a bit and play a more supportive role. You've got your own tier 9s and 10s on your team, focus down their targets when you can and you can be a force-multiplier. Let them do the heavy lifting and take the heat, it's what the top dogs are meant to do.

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Good point about the Atago but in tier 10 im often being chased by a BB or heavy cruiser who thinks easy kill, so from salvo to impact you have greater range dodge left fire torps , dodge right fire torps , straighten fire salvo , etc,. The Atago has geat torp angles and with its concealment you can go dark easily. Just never turn broadside to fire both sets of torps in tier 10 or you'll vapourise. So at closing speed between firing and their closing speed I often get hits out to 16.5km, but she has my 19 point Zao captain in her with good accuracy at that range. Its funny I have the PE but cant make it work in higher tiers yet have the hindenberg, go figure.

 

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