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Radar and Sonar imbalance killing the game experience

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The fact that Radar and Sonar can see through solid rock is infuriating and is destroying the quality of the gameplay.

First, radar and Sonar are already a powerful tool without the sci-fi capability of seeing through rock. The fact that a DD in smoke not only can be spotted on the mini-map but through line of site from a greatly extended range is difficult enough. To add to that, not only can the ship using radar see a DD visually in smoke but the whole fleet can too makes it easy for a DD to get annihilated within seconds given their rock bottom HP.  And it's not like a BB can't cause severe damage to DDs by knowing the approximate location in the smoke given the wide salvo spread. No radar or sonar even required. Then on top of that, larger ships when close in can spot a DD at the exact same range that a DD can spot a larger ship. Suddenly DDs are less stealthy than battleships?

A lot goes into a DD setting up smoke. You can't just pop it anywhere and expect to cause damage and get kills. But radar and sonar? Just hit a key and the entire fleet has an instant sitting duck target. No tactics needed. No figuring out the vectors of the opponent. No worrying about if your going to get surrounded because you hit radar in the wrong spot. Just an instant orgy firing on a stationary target with low HP.

Finally, to add insult to injury, radar and sonar can magically see through solid rock giving the rest of the fleet that has a line of site shot at the DD a free go. Super impressive considering we're driving WWII technology. Yeah yeah... "it's a game." Fair. Then give my torps the ability of flight so they can jump over islands and hit their targets. Hey... it's only a game.

Please:

  • Keep the extended range and the ability of the ship running radar/sonar the ability to spot ships in smoke line of sight. It wouldn't be practical to target via the mini-map. But don't give the rest of the team the instant ability to see the DD line of sight in the smoke. At least make the rest wait until the DD is flushed out of the smoke by the ship doing the spotting. That way the DD has to make a tactical choice (those are fun and make the game better!): face one opponent as a sitting duck, or face all opponents as a moving target. OR only make the ship in the smoke spottable via line of site if the ship with radar is within that range. If the spotting ship is outside that range, show the ship in the smoke on the mini-map but not line of site. I know... doesn't make total sense BUT NEITHER DOES ANYTHING ELSE ABOUT THE WAY RADAR AND SONAR ARE IMPLEMENTED.
  • Get rid of the World War VII nano-tech/cyber-tech/alien-civilization-tech (however you think it works) of seeing through solid rock. It not only is way OP, but it detracts from the tactical nature of the game, reduces the importance of smart team play, and is just plain old fashioned nonsense.
Edited by En0rm0
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Your DD also has unlimited torps which never existed in WWII technology. Additionally, your DD also reappears in port with no damage instead of spending months in repair or being built again if it was sunk.

It's about game balance so the boundaries of what happened in real life are stretched in order to make the different ship classes playable.

Additionally, it's your job to know radar ranges and be aware of where those ships are on the mini map so you don't get caught in their radar at all or for very long. If you're getting annihilated when radar is used then your situational awareness may need an upgrade.

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He's right way too much Radar and Radio Detection finders in the game and seeing though Islands is just killing this game and that's not even counting those CV's spotting everything...……..

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Since this is not really a technical support issue, I'll be moving this to General Game discussion. 

Please ensure topics are kept in their appropriate forum areas.
 


In regards to Hydro / Radar;

We did recently add a change to the Radar mechanic which made the detected ship only hard spotted for the ship radaring for the first 6 seconds before other ships are able to see said ship. This prevents the mass spam fire initially and allows the radar'd ship a chance to move out of the way / out of radar range. 

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As a dd in smoke,  if a big ship rushes you , all you have to do is turn him into torp soup...not that hard.

Secondly it's your own dam fault for putting yourself in situations where you can get hydro'd or radard   . You di t need to bum rush caps and smoke up and die

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14 hours ago, En0rm0 said:

The fact that Radar and Sonar can see through solid rock is infuriating and is destroying the quality of the gameplay.

First, radar and Sonar are already a powerful tool without the sci-fi capability of seeing through rock. The fact that a DD in smoke not only can be spotted on the mini-map but through line of site from a greatly extended range is difficult enough. To add to that, not only can the ship using radar see a DD visually in smoke but the whole fleet can too makes it easy for a DD to get annihilated within seconds given their rock bottom HP.  And it's not like a BB can't cause severe damage to DDs by knowing the approximate location in the smoke given the wide salvo spread. No radar or sonar even required. Then on top of that, larger ships when close in can spot a DD at the exact same range that a DD can spot a larger ship. Suddenly DDs are less stealthy than battleships?

A lot goes into a DD setting up smoke. You can't just pop it anywhere and expect to cause damage and get kills. But radar and sonar? Just hit a key and the entire fleet has an instant sitting duck target. No tactics needed. No figuring out the vectors of the opponent. No worrying about if your going to get surrounded because you hit radar in the wrong spot. Just an instant orgy firing on a stationary target with low HP.

Finally, to add insult to injury, radar and sonar can magically see through solid rock giving the rest of the fleet that has a line of site shot at the DD a free go. Super impressive considering we're driving WWII technology. Yeah yeah... "it's a game." Fair. Then give my torps the ability of flight so they can jump over islands and hit their targets. Hey... it's only a game.

Please:

  • Keep the extended range and the ability of the ship running radar/sonar the ability to spot ships in smoke line of sight. It wouldn't be practical to target via the mini-map. But don't give the rest of the team the instant ability to see the DD line of sight in the smoke. At least make the rest wait until the DD is flushed out of the smoke by the ship doing the spotting. That way the DD has to make a tactical choice (those are fun and make the game better!): face one opponent as a sitting duck, or face all opponents as a moving target. OR only make the ship in the smoke spottable via line of site if the ship with radar is within that range. If the spotting ship is outside that range, show the ship in the smoke on the mini-map but not line of site. I know... doesn't make total sense BUT NEITHER DOES ANYTHING ELSE ABOUT THE WAY RADAR AND SONAR ARE IMPLEMENTED.
  • Get rid of the World War VII nano-tech/cyber-tech/alien-civilization-tech (however you think it works) of seeing through solid rock. It not only is way OP, but it detracts from the tactical nature of the game, reduces the importance of smart team play, and is just plain old fashioned nonsense.

This is quite clearly a trolling post as you joined the forums 14 hours ago, but don't seem to have  any battles to your name, therefore you wouldn't be able to have experience other than watching gameplay of others, unless you created this account to do just that, Troll.

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There is already a delay between when spotted by radar and the rest of the enemy team can actually see you.  Hydro range is pretty small outside the german variation.  Even that improved  range is around the detection range of most DDs anyways.(high tiers)   If you are getting spotted in your smoke by radar/hydro and getting annihilated on a regular basis, then that is on you. You need to work on positioning, map awareness, and make less risky moves.(like not smoking up in a spot, especially at the start, if you dont know where their radar cruisers are)

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6 minutes ago, Panic512 said:

This is quite clearly a trolling post as you joined the forums 14 hours ago, but don't seem to have any battles to your name, therefore you wouldn't be able to have experience other than watching gameplay of others, unless you created this account to do just that, Troll.

Ad hominem. Address the point, not the presenter.

Back on topic. The fact that radar and sonar shouldn't be going through islands, but does, seems to be a technical issue - from the standpoint that it's been acknowledged by the developers in the past that it's an issue, but they can't seem to find a solution that works. IMO, Radar and Sonar should be passive abilities some ships have, which modify their spotting ability; I.e. they can spot stealthy ships at greater distances than those without.

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2 minutes ago, Jack_Stewart said:

Ad hominem. Address the point, not the presenter.

Back on topic. The fact that radar and sonar shouldn't be going through islands, but does, seems to be a technical issue - from the standpoint that it's been acknowledged by the developers in the past that it's an issue, but they can't seem to find a solution that works. IMO, Radar and Sonar should be passive abilities some ships have, which modify their spotting ability; I.e. they can spot stealthy ships at greater distances than those without.

Please how is this ad hominem? I am disproving his entire argument that he is "ranting" about by showing that he doesn't have the battle to his name, or the experience to understand the actual mechanics yet simply wants to beat a dead horse that has been buried and dug up countless times on this forum? I am not attacking his character, simply pointing out something that fully discredits the base of the argument since there is no experience.

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32 minutes ago, Panic512 said:

Please how is this ad hominem? I am disproving his entire argument that he is "ranting" about by showing that he doesn't have the battle to his name, or the experience to understand the actual mechanics yet simply wants to beat a dead horse that has been buried and dug up countless times on this forum? I am not attacking his character, simply pointing out something that fully discredits the base of the argument since there is no experience.

no your mistaking the fact that people can play on multiple servers and/or that the name used here may not reflect where they play or the name that actually use.

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15 hours ago, En0rm0 said:

 

Please:

  • Keep the extended range and the ability of the ship running radar/sonar the ability to spot ships in smoke line of sight. It wouldn't be practical to target via the mini-map. But don't give the rest of the team the instant ability to see the DD line of sight in the smoke. At least make the rest wait until the DD is flushed out of the smoke by the ship doing the spotting. That way the DD has to make a tactical choice (those are fun and make the game better!): face one opponent as a sitting duck, or face all opponents as a moving target. OR only make the ship in the smoke spottable via line of site if the ship with radar is within that range. If the spotting ship is outside that range, show the ship in the smoke on the mini-map but not line of site. I know... doesn't make total sense BUT NEITHER DOES ANYTHING ELSE ABOUT THE WAY RADAR AND SONAR ARE IMPLEMENTED.
  • Get rid of the World War VII nano-tech/cyber-tech/alien-civilization-tech (however you think it works) of seeing through solid rock. It not only is way OP, but it detracts from the tactical nature of the game, reduces the importance of smart team play, and is just plain old fashioned nonsense.

You missed one:

  • Please greatly extend the range of radar (at least 2X, better yet 3X) when removing the capability of seeing through rock. Radar that cannot detect beyond the range at which the ship that uses the radar may be seen is ludicrous.

 

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59 minutes ago, Jack_Stewart said:

Ad hominem. Address the point, not the presenter.

Back on topic. The fact that radar and sonar shouldn't be going through islands, but does, seems to be a technical issue - from the standpoint that it's been acknowledged by the developers in the past that it's an issue, but they can't seem to find a solution that works. IMO, Radar and Sonar should be passive abilities some ships have, which modify their spotting ability; I.e. they can spot stealthy ships at greater distances than those without.

They tested and they said it put the cruisers at too much risk, it's not a technical issue and they said this live on stream.

Edited by Final8ty
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1 hour ago, Jack_Stewart said:

Back on topic. The fact that radar and sonar shouldn't be going through islands, but does, seems to be a technical issue - from the standpoint that it's been acknowledged by the developers in the past that it's an issue, but they can't seem to find a solution that works. IMO, Radar and Sonar should be passive abilities some ships have, which modify their spotting ability; I.e. they can spot stealthy ships at greater distances than those without.

WG claims they tested it, but didn't like that cruisers had to take a risk to completely negate a destroyer's one and only form of defense.

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15 hours ago, En0rm0 said:

The fact that Radar and Sonar can see through solid rock is infuriating and is destroying the quality of the gameplay.

First, radar and Sonar are already a powerful tool without the sci-fi capability of seeing through rock. The fact that a DD in smoke not only can be spotted on the mini-map but through line of site from a greatly extended range is difficult enough. To add to that, not only can the ship using radar see a DD visually in smoke but the whole fleet can too makes it easy for a DD to get annihilated within seconds given their rock bottom HP.  And it's not like a BB can't cause severe damage to DDs by knowing the approximate location in the smoke given the wide salvo spread. No radar or sonar even required. Then on top of that, larger ships when close in can spot a DD at the exact same range that a DD can spot a larger ship. Suddenly DDs are less stealthy than battleships?

A lot goes into a DD setting up smoke. You can't just pop it anywhere and expect to cause damage and get kills. But radar and sonar? Just hit a key and the entire fleet has an instant sitting duck target. No tactics needed. No figuring out the vectors of the opponent. No worrying about if your going to get surrounded because you hit radar in the wrong spot. Just an instant orgy firing on a stationary target with low HP.

Finally, to add insult to injury, radar and sonar can magically see through solid rock giving the rest of the fleet that has a line of site shot at the DD a free go. Super impressive considering we're driving WWII technology. Yeah yeah... "it's a game." Fair. Then give my torps the ability of flight so they can jump over islands and hit their targets. Hey... it's only a game.

Please:

  • Keep the extended range and the ability of the ship running radar/sonar the ability to spot ships in smoke line of sight. It wouldn't be practical to target via the mini-map. But don't give the rest of the team the instant ability to see the DD line of sight in the smoke. At least make the rest wait until the DD is flushed out of the smoke by the ship doing the spotting. That way the DD has to make a tactical choice (those are fun and make the game better!): face one opponent as a sitting duck, or face all opponents as a moving target. OR only make the ship in the smoke spottable via line of site if the ship with radar is within that range. If the spotting ship is outside that range, show the ship in the smoke on the mini-map but not line of site. I know... doesn't make total sense BUT NEITHER DOES ANYTHING ELSE ABOUT THE WAY RADAR AND SONAR ARE IMPLEMENTED.
  • Get rid of the World War VII nano-tech/cyber-tech/alien-civilization-tech (however you think it works) of seeing through solid rock. It not only is way OP, but it detracts from the tactical nature of the game, reduces the importance of smart team play, and is just plain old fashioned nonsense.

Good at least we aee back to this and not CV hate!

Huzza!!!

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Radar spotting already has a rendering delay for the rest of the team. Have you actually played the game lately? Also, if Hydro is really giving you that many fits, then might I suggest that destroyers just aren’t right for you.

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18 hours ago, En0rm0 said:

The fact that Radar and Sonar can see through solid rock is infuriating and is destroying the quality of the gameplay.

That's nothing.  Recently I was in Kitakaze playing random in that new map Greece.  I was in grid E3, which was north of that long narrow island on the left side of the map, sheltering and firing through that opening between 2 islands towards the reds in the south.  I accidentally selected torpedoes and fired off all 5 torps while next to the island.  I was cursing to myself, but was then amazed to see only 2 torps detonated on the island shore, and the other 3 went through land and continued on their merry way south!  The ship next to me saw this and we both went, "wth?" 

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OH look another radar thread 

we will start with the obligatory.

Ke5wzYf.jpg

 

and then my personal favorite....

hA0mPTZ.jpg

HFGL

Edited by neptunes_wrath

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I have no sympathy for dd,s      I think the spotting for them at higher tiers is crap.   I wish more ships had radar.

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On 6/11/2019 at 12:35 PM, Panic512 said:

Please how is this ad hominem? I am disproving his entire argument that he is "ranting" about by showing that he doesn't have the battle to his name, or the experience to understand the actual mechanics yet simply wants to beat a dead horse that has been buried and dug up countless times on this forum? I am not attacking his character, simply pointing out something that fully discredits the base of the argument since there is no experience.

Yes, yes you are going after his character, by saying the underlined... You don't know who this person is, because their account is clearly a new one to state an unpopular opinion.

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On 6/11/2019 at 1:29 PM, Final8ty said:

They tested and they said it put the cruisers at too much risk, it's not a technical issue and they said this live on stream.

On 6/11/2019 at 1:37 PM, KiyoSenkan said:

WG claims they tested it, but didn't like that cruisers had to take a risk to completely negate a destroyer's one and only form of defense.

While I didn't watch said stream, the fact that they don't want to implement these changes because it removes counter-play (the risk to the cruisers) IMO, is part of the problem. There has to be a happy medium somewhere in here, where DD's have risks to making torp-runs, but so do cruisers in hunting them - even if that risk comes from no longer island-camping, which IMO is another problem.

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On 6/11/2019 at 10:22 AM, MannyD_of_The_Sea said:

You missed one:

  • Please greatly extend the range of radar (at least 2X, better yet 3X) when removing the capability of seeing through rock. Radar that cannot detect beyond the range at which the ship that uses the radar may be seen is ludicrous.

 

Moskva radar already covers over half the map by itself.

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1 minute ago, 10T0nHammer said:

Moskva radar already covers over half the map by itself.

BFD, really.

Even Moskva’s long range radar would be of limited value if they fix radar to work by line-of-sight. Moskva’s concealment range is shorter than its radar range as well, as is so for all radar ships.

Thus, ANY radar ship, not only must expose itself to line of sight, but to line of fire by every ship it could detect, before it can begin to detect anything with radar.

If find it inconceivable that the “radar must be LOS” proponents don’t know this; I am rather sure this is quietly what they want.

The compensating offset would have to be extending radar range to beyond a ships own concealment range.

The LOS proponents cannot found their “radar should not see through rocks” argument upon technical historicity, without accepting that the other aspect of technical historicity (radar could see a darn sight further than the game presently allows, even beyond gun range) will be the needed and logical balancing compensation.

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2 minutes ago, MannyD_of_The_Sea said:

BFD, really. 

Spoken like someone who.. *checks notes* would not do well in DDs, I would bet. 

Let's give CAs a button that gives them an instant 800mm of armor around the whole ship. BBs would be completely useless for long periods of time since balance doesn't seem to matter to most.

 

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3 minutes ago, 10T0nHammer said:

Spoken like someone who.. *checks notes* would not do well in DDs, I would bet. 

Spoken like someone who has to get his snide remarks from a book.

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