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Helstrem

DDs in ranked

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I am not sure how to proceed here.  DDs are utterly dominant in Ranked and my team keeps getting DDs who think they are Rambo, who then run off on their own, always away from where the team is going, and get killed.  Usually there is a Shima on the other team that then gets to go wild.

I would really like to have some CVs in these matches so that these idiot wannabe Rambo DD players wouldn't matter as much. 

Last battle our Z-52 lost a gun duel to a Shimakaze.  Battle before than the Gearing ran off on his own, got hammered and managed to pull back, found the enemy Shima and ran from it and then later got killed.  

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What non sense are you saying. Asking for CV to balance out the DD population ? But what if you get the potato CV and he start dev striking everything because you know, CV are OP :Smile_hiding:

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Just now, AlcatrazNC said:

What non sense are you saying. Asking for CV to balance out the DD population ? But what if you get the potato CV and he start dev striking everything because you know, CV are OP :Smile_hiding:

I don't find CVs to be OP in the least.  With a CV on our team we won't be utterly dependent on having a decent DD player to counter their DD player(s) as the CV can spot the DD and allow non-DDs to actually engage it.

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2 hours ago, Helstrem said:

I don't find CVs to be OP in the least.  With a CV on our team we won't be utterly dependent on having a decent DD player to counter their DD player(s) as the CV can spot the DD and allow non-DDs to actually engage it.

     That's why spotting causes such a furor and people call for the removal of both CV and DD.

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Hmm... someone needs their cruisers to step up and hunt dds rather than reenacting vesuvius eruptions on bbs.... from behind islands... :cap_tea:

Edited by Xanshin
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37 minutes ago, Xanshin said:

Hmm... someone needs their cruisers to step up and hunt dds rather than reenacting vesuvius eruptions on bbs.... from behind islands... :cap_tea:

Cruisers don't hunt DDs.  They kill them when someone (perhaps even themselves with radar) spots them.  That's not "hunting" to me.  Actual "hunting" of DDs is best left to other DDs or CV planes.  To me, hunting DDs means FINDING them.  Once they're found, then everyone can get down to killing them.

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3 hours ago, Helstrem said:

I am not sure how to proceed here.  DDs are utterly dominant in Ranked and my team keeps getting DDs who think they are Rambo, who then run off on their own, always away from where the team is going, and get killed.  Usually there is a Shima on the other team that then gets to go wild.

I would really like to have some CVs in these matches so that these idiot wannabe Rambo DD players wouldn't matter as much. 

Last battle our Z-52 lost a gun duel to a Shimakaze.  Battle before than the Gearing ran off on his own, got hammered and managed to pull back, found the enemy Shima and ran from it and then later got killed.  

In battles without CVs, DDs are the eyes of their team.  But if you get stuck with a team that has a single DD who goes rogue and isn't spotting and scouting for the team, you're boned.  I mean, hey, it's one thing if after the teams have gotten thoroughly engaged if the DD tries to disengage and maybe go grab a cap.  But if there's scouting to be done, it's pretty much the DDs job to do it.

Anyways, I don't know what to tell you to do if you get stuck with one of those DD players that goes rogue on you.  About the best you can probably hope is to find a way to get the enemy's DD dead ASAP to even the odds.

Edited by Crucis
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DDs in ranked battles are as critical as any class. Other then learning from their own mistakes there isn't much one can do. 

Its like how i shake my head viewing a yamato fire HE at a broadside cruiser. 

It happens, i hope they only can learn. 

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33 minutes ago, Crucis said:

Cruisers don't hunt DDs.  They kill them when someone (perhaps even themselves with radar) spots them.  That's not "hunting" to me.  Actual "hunting" of DDs is best left to other DDs or CV planes.  To me, hunting DDs means FINDING them.  Once they're found, then everyone can get down to killing them.

I dont mind dds hunting me as a dd since i can usually handle a knife fight... but if a zao or mino is trying to sniff me out ill break into tears and look for a friendly to hug me until the scary monster is gone. :Smile_child:

CVs are a whole other kettle of pacifiers. Lol

Edited by Xanshin
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OP, Your own message contradicts itself, you say DDs are utterly dominant and then complain that they die too quickly.

Skill level of players will always impact the result regardless of ship type and your proposed solution (to have more CVs) is even more heavily impacted by skill level disparity.

 

 

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34 minutes ago, _greifer said:

DDs in ranked battles are as critical as any class. Other then learning from their own mistakes there isn't much one can do. 

Its like how i shake my head viewing a yamato fire HE at a broadside cruiser. 

It happens, i hope they only can learn. 

Indeed. Although, if found that if a team's BB dies, it has much less of an impact than anything else. The remaining CA/Ls can usually compensate for the loss of a friendly BB by using cover much more effectively or just baiting the enemy BBs into thinking they're vulnerable then slamming them with everything they've got. DDs are the most impactful, I think. The teams that looses their DDs first is usually the losing team.

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44 minutes ago, _greifer said:

DDs in ranked battles are as critical as any class. Other then learning from their own mistakes there isn't much one can do. 

Its like how i shake my head viewing a yamato fire HE at a broadside cruiser. 

It happens, i hope they only can learn. 

Or like a Conq who was only shooting AP at a close range bow on Hen and nearly lost if it was not for me making the Hen go broadside because of my torps.

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28 minutes ago, Xanshin said:

I dont mind dds hunting me as a dd since i can usually handle a knife fight... but if a zao or mino is trying to sniff me out ill break into tears and look for a friendly to hug me until the scary monster is gone. :Smile_child:

CVs are a whole other kettle of pacifiers. Lol

Indeed when the Zao shows up its time to peace out.

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7 minutes ago, Final8ty said:

Indeed when the Zao shows up its time to peace out.

Right? Laser guided HE death volleys... they sting. 12k shima torps are nothing to sneeze at either. 10kish detection... acoustics... no thanks.

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5 hours ago, Helstrem said:

DDs who think they are Rambo, who then run off on their own, always away from where the team is going, and get killed. 

Here is the problem. The DD is the scout and may at some point choose to cap. He takes all the risk going in close. It is up to the DD to decide which way to go based on his own experience for his best chance to survive and help the team. It is up to the the team to support him and if they support him as they should he should not die as easily. That is were things are getting mucked up. Teams are just abandoning the DD's. I also see cruisers turn and run to the other side of the map leaving the BB's at the beginning of the games as well. You want to throw the game fast go ahead and abandon the BB's so they have no help with the DD's and CV's not to mention getting burned up by cruiser HE. You want to give it away even faster, abandon your DD's so they get killed and wait to see which mastermind will go cap a base. I have over 1000 random battles in T10 DD's. If I am in a DD the last thing I want is someone who never plays DD's telling me how to play my ship. 

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6 hours ago, Helstrem said:

I am not sure how to proceed here.  DDs are utterly dominant in Ranked and my team keeps getting DDs who think they are Rambo, who then run off on their own, always away from where the team is going, and get killed.  Usually there is a Shima on the other team that then gets to go wild.

I would really like to have some CVs in these matches so that these idiot wannabe Rambo DD players wouldn't matter as much. 

Last battle our Z-52 lost a gun duel to a Shimakaze.  Battle before than the Gearing ran off on his own, got hammered and managed to pull back, found the enemy Shima and ran from it and then later got killed.  

You sound like the BB player in my last ranked match who was whining yet never left the H line to actually support DD's with timely and accurate fire.

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Playing dd in ranked has been very exciting. I’ve had a lot of lucky streaks in my z. I try to stay in front of the mob to screen torps. I try to spot. I’ll push caps. I’ll even fight for a cap if no radar nearby. Where I find myself getting hosed is when another DD with better xoncealment/hydro spots me and has the support of his team. Quite often, when things go bad, usually mid game btw, my entire team is farming damage of some hapless BB 15km away and on other side of map rather than watching the contender objectives and I melt under the gunfire of 2-3 red boats as I try to pop smoke and run.

I don’t get excited about carriers. I don’t hate them but I don’t miss them when they aren’t around either.

Sounds like you might be playing ranked a little too much like random. 

Edited by thebigblue
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8 hours ago, Xanshin said:

I dont mind dds hunting me as a dd since i can usually handle a knife fight... but if a zao or mino is trying to sniff me out ill break into tears and look for a friendly to hug me until the scary monster is gone. :Smile_child:

CVs are a whole other kettle of pacifiers. Lol

Zao and most Mino's don't have radar.  Keep them spotted and your team should kill them for you.  If you are spotting them and your team is choosing to farm damage on a BB, that is the teams failure, not yours as a DD.

8 hours ago, Camo68 said:

OP, Your own message contradicts itself, you say DDs are utterly dominant and then complain that they die too quickly.

Skill level of players will always impact the result regardless of ship type and your proposed solution (to have more CVs) is even more heavily impacted by skill level disparity.

 

 

That is not contradictory at all.  DDs are, in absence of a CV, the most important type of ship.  If your most important type of ship removes itself from the match leaving the enemy team with their most important type, the DD, still in play it hands a huge advantage to the enemy.  It doesn't 100% determine the outcome, but it certainly tilts the playing field significantly.  If a CV is present then the most important type of ship is probably the cruisers. 

6 hours ago, Grumpy_Chief said:

Here is the problem. The DD is the scout and may at some point choose to cap. He takes all the risk going in close. It is up to the DD to decide which way to go based on his own experience for his best chance to survive and help the team. It is up to the the team to support him and if they support him as they should he should not die as easily. That is were things are getting mucked up. Teams are just abandoning the DD's. I also see cruisers turn and run to the other side of the map leaving the BB's at the beginning of the games as well. You want to throw the game fast go ahead and abandon the BB's so they have no help with the DD's and CV's not to mention getting burned up by cruiser HE. You want to give it away even faster, abandon your DD's so they get killed and wait to see which mastermind will go cap a base. I have over 1000 random battles in T10 DD's. If I am in a DD the last thing I want is someone who never plays DD's telling me how to play my ship. 

I'm not asking the DD to cap.  Capping is everybody's responsibility and will happen in due time.  I've capped multiple times in my Yamato.  I am asking the DD to be a scout and help find their DD so we can all neutralize it rather than running off and trying to pull some solo heroics.  On Monday I got a Kraken pulling solo heroics in a loss.  If anybody else on my team had killed anything we'd have won most likely.  Solo heroics don't work.

4 hours ago, IronMike11C4O said:

You sound like the BB player in my last ranked match who was whining yet never left the H line to actually support DD's with timely and accurate fire.

I don't hide in the back.  Part of my job as a BB is to draw and survive enemy fire so that the lighter ships don't get blapped.  You can't do that from the H line.

4 hours ago, thebigblue said:

Playing dd in ranked has been very exciting. I’ve had a lot of lucky streaks in my z. I try to stay in front of the mob to screen torps. I try to spot. I’ll push caps. I’ll even fight for a cap if no radar nearby. Where I find myself getting hosed is when another DD with better xoncealment/hydro spots me and has the support of his team. Quite often, when things go bad, usually mid game btw, my entire team is farming damage of some hapless BB 15km away and on other side of map rather than watching the contender objectives and I melt under the gunfire of 2-3 red boats as I try to pop smoke and run.

I don’t get excited about carriers. I don’t hate them but I don’t miss them when they aren’t around either.

Sounds like you might be playing ranked a little too much like random. 

I wish I could get DD players like you on my team.

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8 hours ago, Xanshin said:

I dont mind dds hunting me as a dd since i can usually handle a knife fight... but if a zao or mino is trying to sniff me out ill break into tears and look for a friendly to hug me until the scary monster is gone. :Smile_child:

CVs are a whole other kettle of pacifiers. Lol

The thing is that I really hate blindly chasing after unspotted DDs with a cruiser that doesn't mount radar.  It seems like the DD always has the advantage and I'm just target who is just about intentionally stay close enough to him to get torped.  Also, I rather dislike mounting Radio Location on cruisers because in my experience, most cruiser captains have better things to do with their skill points.  RL just seems like a luxury for most cruisers to me.  DDs, OTOH, can often make great use of RL, and because of that, can be good for running down other DDs, though there's nothing wrong with having a cruiser working with a RL using DD to hunt.  The DD does the actual scouting while the cruiser hangs back, hopefully at a distance that makes him unseen by the DD being hunted, just waiting to blap the huntee.

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36 minutes ago, Crucis said:

The thing is that I really hate blindly chasing after unspotted DDs with a cruiser that doesn't mount radar.  It seems like the DD always has the advantage and I'm just target who is just about intentionally stay close enough to him to get torped.  Also, I rather dislike mounting Radio Location on cruisers because in my experience, most cruiser captains have better things to do with their skill points.  RL just seems like a luxury for most cruisers to me.  DDs, OTOH, can often make great use of RL, and because of that, can be good for running down other DDs, though there's nothing wrong with having a cruiser working with a RL using DD to hunt.  The DD does the actual scouting while the cruiser hangs back, hopefully at a distance that makes him unseen by the DD being hunted, just waiting to blap the huntee.

A mino with radar and RL is absolutely terrifying... first and foremost he believes he has the will and skillset to abandon smoke... secondly he may very well HAVE the will and skillset to abandon smoke...

That aside, if a zao or mino is heading full throttle towards a dd also going full throttle... with 8-10k ce detection... they will likely get an eyefull of that dd before it can turn out... even without throwing acoustics or radar into the mix... and i can almost guarantee that first zao volley taking out engines because RNG loves to troll. :Smile_trollface:

Edited by Xanshin
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29 minutes ago, Xanshin said:

A mino with radar and RL is absolutely terrifying... first and foremost he believes he has the will and skillset to abandon smoke... secondly he may very well HAVE the will and skillset to abandon smoke...

Amen, brother.  Praise Bob.  I play DDs in ranked, because that's the class I can usually drive to contribute the most to a team win.  And Minos are always annoying to see in the red team line-up, because you never really know until it's too late whether he has smoke or radar.

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1 hour ago, Helstrem said:

Zao and most Mino's don't have radar.  Keep them spotted and your team should kill them for you.  If you are spotting them and your team is choosing to farm damage on a BB, that is the teams failure, not yours as a DD.

That is not contradictory at all.  DDs are, in absence of a CV, the most important type of ship.  If your most important type of ship removes itself from the match leaving the enemy team with their most important type, the DD, still in play it hands a huge advantage to the enemy.  It doesn't 100% determine the outcome, but it certainly tilts the playing field significantly.  If a CV is present then the most important type of ship is probably the cruisers. 

I'm not asking the DD to cap.  Capping is everybody's responsibility and will happen in due time.  I've capped multiple times in my Yamato.  I am asking the DD to be a scout and help find their DD so we can all neutralize it rather than running off and trying to pull some solo heroics.  On Monday I got a Kraken pulling solo heroics in a loss.  If anybody else on my team had killed anything we'd have won most likely.  Solo heroics don't work.

I don't hide in the back.  Part of my job as a BB is to draw and survive enemy fire so that the lighter ships don't get blapped.  You can't do that from the H line.

I wish I could get DD players like you on my team.

It’s not good when DD’s with 13-20km torps play in the back just because they have 13-20km torps. They are not fulfilling most of their duties imho.

Edited by thebigblue

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11 hours ago, Crucis said:

Cruisers don't hunt DDs.  They kill them when someone (perhaps even themselves with radar) spots them.  That's not "hunting" to me.  Actual "hunting" of DDs is best left to other DDs or CV planes.  To me, hunting DDs means FINDING them.  Once they're found, then everyone can get down to killing them.

Hunting is doing it with a Cruiser like the Zao that is running RPF.

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11 hours ago, Crucis said:

Cruisers don't hunt DDs.  They kill them when someone (perhaps even themselves with radar) spots them.  That's not "hunting" to me.  Actual "hunting" of DDs is best left to other DDs or CV planes.  To me, hunting DDs means FINDING them.  Once they're found, then everyone can get down to killing them.

I love hunting DDs.  I just have to make sure I am not LOS to BBs.  I there are planes around, then it gets harder.

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