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Jean Bart : What Richelieu should be.

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I got bored waiting for Yoshino and Georgia to be released so I decided to buy Jean Bart. She was in my mind for a moment now but I was saving up as much coal as I could for Yoshino. 

 

Anyway I bought her, play her, got good - very good game in her but there was something that was kinda sad. It is the fact that I had to buy JB to get the true Richelieu experience. What do I mean by that ?

 

Simple. JB is basically a T9 Richelieu with improved reload, AA better HP (at the cost of -3% torps belt) and MBRB. But the guns, Jean Bart guns...Oh lord it is so satisfying, so rewarding. Putting aside the reload on such great guns, you aim well you get rewarded for your aim. Sure it has some drawback but the gun are consistent. And this is what Richelieu severely lacks. Not only Richelieu reload is 30 sec but she is also very innacurate and inconsistent. I could aim at a broadside Chapayev and only score 1 overpen and once per week a citadel. Once every blue moon, a Dev Strike.

 

Richelieu experience was so frustrating because she couldn't do reliable damage. There were game where no one really wanted to push and engagement were >16km. During these game (which were often against T10) I just loaded HE and HE spammed the entire game. There were broadside cruiser or BB at 18km, I just kept spamming HE because the guns were too unreliable to punish target that I decided to rely on consistent but low HE damage (+ fire chance) rather than inconsistent but heavy AP potential volley. With JB ? No problem. I know if I predict correctly, I'll land devastating / punishing volley. If there's one ship that really feels like a Pay 2 win, it would definitely be Jean Bart. Not because she's OP (tho she IS strong) but because compared to her sister ship, she is just too good.

 

Richelieu could really receive JB dispersion and accuracy on her guns. Just that would already makes the ship a lot better.

 

Also don't forget to spend your ship coupon if there's one you wants to buy. It will be reset the 22/06, meaning in 14 days.

 

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Actually they are both the Richelieu experience. The Richelieu is as built and the Jean Bart because of not entering service until 1955 is a highly upgraded Richelieu.

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6 minutes ago, BrushWolf said:

Actually they are both the Richelieu experience. The Richelieu is as built and the Jean Bart because of not entering service until 1955 is a highly upgraded Richelieu.

History question what ship did the Massachusetts encounter at coast of Africa?  I thought it was the Jean Bart. 

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I saw a Richeliu chasing down an enemy CV like the terminator around half the map while everyone shot at it.

I've never played it but was impressed with whoever was driving it, but maybe RNG was on his side that day.

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13 minutes ago, I_Potato_Ther4_I_Yam said:

 

History question what ship did the Massachusetts encounter at coast of Africa?  I thought it was the Jean Bart. 

She was docked and only had one turret mounted and I believe her engines were down too. She put up a pretty good fight for a one armed cripple.

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22 minutes ago, BrushWolf said:

She was docked and only had one turret mounted and I believe her engines were down too. She put up a pretty good fight for a one armed cripple.

Yep, she wasn't finished but A turret was installed and operational so it was better than nothing. Considering she attracted enough attention that the operational Vichy destroyers nearly escaped the harbor, I'd concur with that statement. And for fun, a pic that one of Ranger's planes snapped of her while on recon before the battle:

Jean_Bart_12.jpg

It actually kind of amuses me that both Richelieu sisters fought during the war, but only one was completed before it started.

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17 minutes ago, I_Potato_Ther4_I_Yam said:

 

History question what ship did the Massachusetts encounter at coast of Africa?  I thought it was the Jean Bart. 

Yes, It was JB. But that's hardly a fair "encounter" because at that time JB can't move and only one of two quo-mount main turret was installed.

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Another fun fact about the two Richelieus that I just found: Apparently Richelieu herself was almost part of the bombardment contingent of battleships assigned to cover the Normandy landings, but was instead reassigned to the Indian fleet against Japanese forces to cover for British battleships that were in port for refit. The main reason for this was that they didn't have any HE shells for her main guns (not surprising, her AP supply had to be made at a special assembly line in the US during her refit), so she would have been ineffective against anything but hard targets. Had she been able to participate, Richelieu would have been the most advanced battleship of that task force and fought alongside Texas, Arkansas, Nelson, and Warspite among others.

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What I appreciate with Jean Bart is what we have in the game existed in that configuration.

mWQQBQ2jTk8Hyid9p8tGXIYvUJBomjIKUDwablTZTqU.jpg?auto=webp&s=2f0afcbeed06e1c5834fbf452a3a82cecdf4ebc4

I really like the look of Richelieu-class.

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1 hour ago, Landsraad said:

Yep, she wasn't finished but A turret was installed and operational so it was better than nothing.

Actually a bit more than that. As you can see on the picture she didn‘t carry any larger fire control equipment at that time, and her 152mm armament is also missing. So not only a one-armed cripple, but also blind.

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Given her size, speed, gun total, AA, shell weight, armor thickness, etc, JB is overtiered. No Richelieu "belongs" at tier 9 - they were in no way superior to the SoDaks or Vanguard, and they probably weren't significantly better that the Littorios or Bismarcks.

JB relies on a ludicrous gimmick to make her acceptable to tier 9 play - the ship is essentially a "magic" counterpart to Richelieu. Now, that doesn't mean it isn't fun. But, no, Richelieu is exactly what the class should have been. JB is an anomaly.

Edited by Battleship_Elisabeth
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Funny I have the opposite experience. Richelieu is really great and accurate for its tier in fact my most accurate BB. French dispersion is really wonky at long ranges so Bourgogne and Jean Bart almost never impress due to the engagement ranges at tier 10. Especially when the ship is designed to be balanced around the reload booster consumable, which almost never pays off. I've won more lottery tickets than I've seen reload booster on BBs actually pay off. It's a really weak gimmick just like the secondaries on these BBs. 

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11 minutes ago, NeoRussia said:

Especially when the ship is designed to be balanced around the reload booster consumable, which almost never pays off. I've won more lottery tickets than I've seen reload booster on BBs actually pay off. It's a really weak gimmick just like the secondaries on these BBs. 

It's all about timing honestly. I have pretty good success with it, but it's most useful for two things: Punishing broadside idiots at medium range with AP (that's a paddlin', and 24 AP shells downrange in less than 30 seconds), and blasting sneaky squishy ships that get lit by radar with HE. Destroyers just MELT when you work together with a radar cruiser in JB.

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4 minutes ago, Landsraad said:

It's all about timing honestly. I have pretty good success with it, but it's most useful for two things: Punishing broadside idiots at medium range with AP (that's a paddlin', and 24 AP shells downrange in less than 30 seconds), and blasting sneaky squishy ships that get lit by radar with HE. Destroyers just MELT when you work together with a radar cruiser in JB.

Yep.  You have to exploit any opportunity you can with it.     Position well and anticipate.  I love playing it. 

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2 hours ago, Battleship_Elisabeth said:

Given her size, speed, gun total, AA, shell weight, armor thickness, etc, JB is overtiered. No Richelieu "belongs" at tier 9 - they were in no way superior to the SoDaks or Vanguard, and they probably weren't significantly better that the Littorios or Bismarcks.

JB relies on a ludicrous gimmick to make her acceptable to tier 9 play - the ship is essentially a "magic" counterpart to Richelieu. Now, that doesn't mean it isn't fun. But, no, Richelieu is exactly what the class should have been. JB is an anomaly.

Question - do you regard her as acceptable for Tier 8? Because if you do, it could be argued that there's almost no difference between having her at 8 or 9 given how much T8 sees T10.

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15 minutes ago, Ensign_Cthulhu said:

Question - do you regard her as acceptable for Tier 8? Because if you do, it could be argued that there's almost no difference between having her at 8 or 9 given how much T8 sees T10.

Ah, but tier 9 doesn't see tier 6 and tier 8 isn't balanced to be equal to ships like Izumo, Iowa, Friedrich, and Sovetsky Soyuz. I'd say if all you did was take the reload booster off she'd be a strong tier 8. Strong enough to be broken? iDunno, as of right now she's strong enough to be broken in the right hands at tier 9, but that's all MBRB's doing. I don't know if Jean Bart sans reload boost would be the Cesare of tier 8, but she'd outshine Richelieu, that's for sure.

Also, yes, I know I'm gushing a lot of neat tidbits and off-topic extras about the Richelieus, but I can't help it. Here's another for you: While the main battery kept the same AB arrangement rather than going to A-Y like with Gascogne; the third ship, Clemenceau, would have had a rather different secondary layout:

ClemenceauRich.thumb.png.86027cc0cc215fc0df480724582459ec.png

So by reducing the number of aft 152 turrets by one and making them superfiring amidships, the designers were able to add a wing turret on either side while shuffling the AA and smaller DP turrets around to keep roughly the same number in total. That's definitely a more powerful broadside potential, though they lost quite a bit of room on the fantail for aircraft handling.

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5 hours ago, BrushWolf said:

Actually they are both the Richelieu experience. The Richelieu is as built and the Jean Bart because of not entering service until 1955 is a highly upgraded Richelieu.

You have to qualify that "not entering service" very carefully. Jean Bart actually fought during WW2, but she indeed did not enter service in her completed state until much later.

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1 hour ago, Ensign_Cthulhu said:

Question - do you regard her as acceptable for Tier 8? Because if you do, it could be argued that there's almost no difference between having her at 8 or 9 given how much T8 sees T10.

No. With the booster, she is definitely a weird - occasionally extremely powerful - tier 9. However Richelieu is th balanced, normal, realistic (in as much as ships in WoWs can be realistic) incarnation of the class, and Richelieu definitely belongs at tier 8.

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7 hours ago, Ensign_Cthulhu said:

You have to qualify that "not entering service" very carefully. Jean Bart actually fought during WW2, but she indeed did not enter service in her completed state until much later.

That was why I said "She put up a pretty good fight for a one armed cripple".

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52 minutes ago, BrushWolf said:

That was why I said "She put up a pretty good fight for a one armed cripple".

She restored the glory of France with her actions. A pity it was VICHY France, but you can't have it all, I guess.

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Love my Richelieu. I'm too cheap to by a BB and the Richelieu seemed like an interesting BB so I just ground through French ships to get to her. She's been really good at AA and when I can get all 8 of her main guns to land on a target at once it's pretty devestating. She handles torpedo strikes pretty well.

I've read some Richelieu captains that sold their ship after getting an Alsace were disappointed because a base Alsace is noticabley weaker than a maxed Richelieu so I don't think I'll be selling mine. 

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5 hours ago, Aurora_7 said:

Love my Richelieu. I'm too cheap to by a BB and the Richelieu seemed like an interesting BB so I just ground through French ships to get to her. She's been really good at AA and when I can get all 8 of her main guns to land on a target at once it's pretty devestating. She handles torpedo strikes pretty well.

I've read some Richelieu captains that sold their ship after getting an Alsace were disappointed because a base Alsace is noticabley weaker than a maxed Richelieu so I don't think I'll be selling mine. 

New stock ships are never any good.

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20 hours ago, I_Potato_Ther4_I_Yam said:

 

History question what ship did the Massachusetts encounter at coast of Africa?  I thought it was the Jean Bart. 

It was a Jean Bart as a floating anchored gun battery with only one turret.  Not exactly what you were hoping to portray, was it?  

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20 hours ago, Landsraad said:

It actually kind of amuses me that both Richelieu sisters fought during the war, but only one was completed before it started.

Actually neither were completely finished.  Richelieu was about 90% done when France fell and more importantly she was lacking all the combat testing to see if the ship was functioning properly.  As such, they only discovered that Richeilu wasn't shooting straight only at the tail end of WW2 and only fixed the guns in 1948.  US Battleships had similar flaws with triple guns but they were able to discover and fix them while the ship were still brand-new.

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