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___V_E_N_O_M___

AXIS vs. ALLIES Events

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This has come up before but I'll copy and paste what I said back in November 2018.

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On 11/5/2018 at 12:00 AM, HazeGrayUnderway said:

Considering this is NA server also...  But if we go with a supposed equal player representation between Axis & Allied teams, IMO it still looks bad for Axis.  Why?  Allies for the sheer selection of capabilities.  Especially Radar.

 

The BB Lineups will be interesting.

Axis has IJN gunnery and IJN 460 Overmatch.

German Turtlebacks and Secondaries.

German BB Hydrro

The 3 Torpedo BBs are German.

Best BB AA are Allied.

RN BB HE.

French BB secondaries to contend with German secondaries.

Missouri Radar.

Lots of thick deck armor on upper tier Axis BBs.  50mm decks on plenty of German BBs, 57mm or so in Izumo and Yamato-class.  This means that they eat less raw HE damage as more HE shells that land on these portions of the ship will Non-Pen and do no direct shell damage.  Fires?  Still can happen, but it's a lot better to only eat Fire damage and not eat a bunch of HE shell damage on top of that.  On the flip side, lots of thin 32mm armor sections found on RN and French BBs.  They are highly susceptible to HE spam.

 

Cruisers:

***All the Radar Cruisers are Allied***  This is a highly significant advantage!

The best Cruiser AA are mostly in Allied lines.

German and IJN Cruiser Gunnery as a whole, are good at range.

German Cruiser HE Pen lets them get HE shell damage very easily.  They will HE Pen even the 50mm decks found on Moskva, etc.

IJN CA HE shells are fire starters.

+/- USN Cruisers with their floaty shells are a problem hitting distant targets with, but they can lob these things over islands and can be a PITA to deal with.

USN CA & RN CL AP with their special bounce angles.

USN CA SHS AP shells for Tier VIII+.

Allied Cruiser Spammers:  Atlanta, Worcester, Minotaur.

RU Cruiser Railguns to give Allied Cruisers open water, long ranged lazorz.

High Tier IJN CA Stealth + Long Ranged Torpedoes are dangerous defensively and for kiting.

German Hydro is the best Hydro in the game, and German Cruisers have the best of the best of German Hydro.

 

Destroyers:

IJN Gunboats of the Akizuki family are quite strong as Gunboats.

Heavy torpedo loads from IJN DDs.  TRB consumables are IJN DD-only.

The Allies look really good here for being more rounded cap contesters while still having notable torpedo boats like Fletcher, Gearing, Yueyang, Chung Mu.

RU DDs for Gunboating.

USN DD smoke.

Allied DDs operating with the advantage of All Radar Cruisers are on their side.  How would you like to play an Allied DD and know for a fact that every single Radar ship in the game is ON YOUR SIDE NO MATTER WHAT?  Even the ONE Battleship with Radar is Allied.

All the DDs that can realistically take a decent or great AA Spec and have Defensive Fire are all Allied DDs.

German DDs operating with Hydro eventually.

There are some good Axis DDs but as a whole, the array of Allied DDs are just too good in options and capabilities.

 

 

Carriers:

For most of the tiers, IJN CVs are extremely strong.  Zuiho is the only one that cannot go toe-to-toe with a US CV.  Every other IJN CV is straight up better or on par.

Graf Zeppelin, Kaga, Taiho, Hakuryu for Axis Strike Shennanigans.

IJN Triple TB Strike Specs in Tier VII (Kaga), IX-X.

Lots of Stinker USN CVs in the game:  Tier VI-IX, especially VII-IX.

More common AP Bomber access is found on Allied CVs.  Graf Zeppelin is he only AP bomber capable Axis CV.

The most vulnerable BBs to AP Bombers are Axis... German Battleships.

Midway is Allied.

Best performance USN CVs will lean very heavily on Langley, Bogue, Premium Enterprise, Midway.

Axis CVs will be dealing with most of the game's best AA being concentrated in Allied Ship Lines.  Best BB AA?  Allied.  Best Cruiser AA?  Allied.  Even a number of USN DDs can be specced for surprising AA and going so far as to have Defensive Fire.


 

Some of this stuff is different now, i.e. Carriers.  But IMO, Axis will get MURDERED.

Edited by HazeGrayUnderway
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There was a group that was using the training room to set up Axis vs Allies events, don't think they had great turn out though. Not sure if they are still doing it or not.

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There's no reason why there couldn't be regular game missions that were of an Axis vs Allies format.  That is, one mission that was something like "do X amount of damage to allied ships, while in axis ships" and visa-versa, "do X amount of damage to axis ships while in allied ships".  The two missions should run at the same time so that it encourages players to play both groups of ships.  Otherwise, everyone plays one group of ships and ends up with no target ships (i.e. tons of players in Allied ships and very few in Axis ships).

Also, Operations could be made more Axis vs Allies.  Take Narai, for example.  In the Narai op, the bots are Allies, so why not require the player team be in Axis ships only?  Or Newport Station or Aegis, where the bots are Japanese, maybe require the players to use Allied ships only?

 

 

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For being a WW2 centered game, Wargaming in general has always maintained a certain distance from actual sides of the war imo. Most we see is maybe an 'allied battleship' package. I suppose it is for the better. The more you include the more risks you take in terms of (very) ticked off players, individual countries laws, or a social media frenzy. Its also why I never expect to see people on my boats:Smile_sad:. It would be super nice, but oh well. There is plenty of other games if you want that actual one side vs another realism. (Like one that released today wink wink)

 

AFAIK there is no official statement on this, and this is by no means one either. Just my 2 cents based off of about 5 years of observations over several games

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Would be fun to do an ingame competition thing like the ongoing event where ships on each side scored points for whatever side.

If you picked Axis and played an Axis ship, you could get 2x points or something (so you can still play allied ships just without that bonus).

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25 minutes ago, DolphinPrincess said:

Axis would have a 95% win rate because you would have the entire USN playerbaseTM on the Allies

You are forgetting the size and power of the wehraboos

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They attempted that in World of Tanks once and saw how grossly imbalanced some tanks were. 

While I think it would be a fun and cool idea. I do think WG is too afraid to actually do something like that.

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Well one reason they wont do it is because tiers 4 to 6 the RU would be Axis.

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1 hour ago, DolphinPrincess said:

Axis would have a 95% win rate because you would have the entire USN playerbaseTM on the Allies

Please no, I get enough of this kind of suffering already from that other game (didn't know even the abbreviation was censored).

 

Frankly speaking, if played right the Allies could completely dumpster the Axis if the latter consisted of just Germany, Japan, and Italy's skeleton. Things might be different if Russia fought for Axis, but WG would never do that.

Edited by Flashtirade

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3 minutes ago, DolphinPrincess said:

Of course the allied will win if they played it right. The entire USN tech tree is catered to glue eating potatoes known as the USN PlayerbaseTM why do you think the US tree have the most overpowered ships in the game?

And, at the same time, they also have the lowest win rate and server averages when compared to the other nations despite having the most powerful ships. This is due to the playerbase that exclusively plays USN ships are so bad, that the massive skill gap overwhelms the difference in ship strength.

 

 

It's not just the USN, though they are an integral part of it. Teams composed of just Allied ships would have all the bases covered at all ranges. Having France fight for the Axis might not be enough to balance the scales, but having Russia might.

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1 hour ago, UltimateNewbie said:

Historically accurate!! ;-)

The Weebs and Wehraboos won't like it.

 

Here's a fun one.

 

How would you, as a DD player, like the idea that as an Allied Destroyer, all the Radar Ships are on your side? :Smile_trollface:  Even the ONE Battleship with Radar is an Allied Battleship.  And that Midway is on your side? :Smile_veryhappy:

And for the Allied Battleship players, how would you like the idea that you don't have to face Conqueror at all... She will always be on your team!

And upcoming Probeda / Slava will be an Allied ship :Smile_teethhappy:

Edited by HazeGrayUnderway

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41 minutes ago, HazeGrayUnderway said:

The Weebs and Wehraboos won't like it.

 

Here's a fun one.

 

How would you, as a DD player, like the idea that as an Allied Destroyer, all the Radar Ships are on your side? :Smile_trollface:  Even the ONE Battleship with Radar is an Allied Battleship.  And that Midway is on your side? :Smile_veryhappy:

And for the Allied Battleship players, how would you like the idea that you don't have to face Conqueror at all... She will always be on your team!

And upcoming Probeda / Slava will be an Allied ship :Smile_teethhappy:

I relish the challenge

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WoWs already provides several awesome Axis vs Allies scenarios, like Dynamo, and Cherry Blossom, and that French one, so we have plenty of opportunities... wait, what’s that?  CV re-what?  Never mind, nothing to see here, move along.

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3 hours ago, Ducky_shot said:

You are forgetting the size and power of the wehraboos

I'd bring up the weebs too, but most of them are pretty good players.

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Axis would get absolutely destroyed with the way national flavor/balance has shaped up in this game. You don't want this (unless you're a sadistic Allied main).

1 hour ago, DolphinPrincess said:

This is due to the playerbase that exclusively plays USN ships are so bad, that the massive skill gap overwhelms the difference in ship strength. 

The wehraboos about balance them out. BuFf MuH dKm Bb GuYz

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I always wondered why we had operation that requires you to play Allies ship and no Axis ships but so far we never had a single operation that requires you to play Axis ship and no Allies ships.

 

Is it because "Muh Allies win war, Axis bad no Axis" ?

Is it because "it would be a tribute for the horror Axis did" ?

Is it because [insert [edited] reasons]

 

But I wouldn't mind an Axis vs Allies event. From a gaming persepective, it can be fun.

 

Of course you'll still find the US bias / IJN bias some people will have during such event but if one had to constantly restrain himself with the fear of "hurting" someone else, we wouldn't be able to live.

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3 hours ago, HazeGrayUnderway said:

The Weebs and Wehraboos won't like it.

 

Here's a fun one.

 

How would you, as a DD player, like the idea that as an Allied Destroyer, all the Radar Ships are on your side? :Smile_trollface:  Even the ONE Battleship with Radar is an Allied Battleship.  And that Midway is on your side? :Smile_veryhappy:

And for the Allied Battleship players, how would you like the idea that you don't have to face Conqueror at all... She will always be on your team!

And upcoming Probeda / Slava will be an Allied ship :Smile_teethhappy:

One solution is Phase 1: Axis v Allies T8 and below. 

Phase 2: Cold War T9/T10 based on historical splits, possibly even ‘unaligned’ faction...

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16 hours ago, DolphinPrincess said:

 The entire USN tech tree is catered to glue eating potatoes known as the USN PlayerbaseTM 

 

 

Wow!  See a lot of ignorance on these boards,,, but dang,,, this takes the cake.

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On ‎6‎/‎6‎/‎2019 at 9:06 PM, ___V_E_N_O_M___ said:

I mean a game mode where human players must pick to play on the allied or axis side, imagine axis / allied fixed side random battles.

I knew that was what you meant, Venom.  But the problem is, as others have pointed out, that all the radar in the game is on allied ships, which would create an imbalance in higher tier battles.  After all, the game wasn't balanced for an Axis vs Allies game mode.  It's kind of a shame that it wasn't because this would have been an interesting possibility.

Regardless, I think that a big problem with an Axis vs Allies pvp battle mode is MM.  The problem I envision is that it might be hard to form teams if not enough players are playing enough ships on one faction or the other.  It seems more likely to me that the shortage would be for Axis ships, simply because there are only 2 full Axis trees at this point, since the Italian tree is nothing but 4 premium ships.  Maybe in the future when there's a fully implemented Italian tree, it might be more possible to do an Axis vs Allies pvp battle mode.

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1 hour ago, Crucis said:

I knew that was what you meant, Venom.  But the problem is, as others have pointed out, that all the radar in the game is on allied ships, which would create an imbalance in higher tier battles.  After all, the game wasn't balanced for an Axis vs Allies game mode.  It's kind of a shame that it wasn't because this would have been an interesting possibility.

Regardless, I think that a big problem with an Axis vs Allies pvp battle mode is MM.  The problem I envision is that it might be hard to form teams if not enough players are playing enough ships on one faction or the other.  It seems more likely to me that the shortage would be for Axis ships, simply because there are only 2 full Axis trees at this point, since the Italian tree is nothing but 4 premium ships.  Maybe in the future when there's a fully implemented Italian tree, it might be more possible to do an Axis vs Allies pvp battle mode.

Hmmm in terms of technical imbalance, radar allies vs hydro rpf axis. I guess that is where your skill would come in, I know I would play the axis side as I relish a challenge.

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