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Legio_X_

Well I'm seeing nothing but slingshot by CV players in high rank play

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You see them do their little bomb drop before they get to you, then move up on your AA spec'ed woos. Do about 5-7 damage and lose maybe 1-2 planes in the process. Such balance. 

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1 minute ago, Legio_X_ said:

You see them do their little bomb drop before they get to you, then move up on your AA spec'ed woos. Do about 5-7 damage and lose maybe 1-2 planes in the process. Such balance. 

I want some of what you have been smoking. 

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2 minutes ago, Scrapyard_ said:

I want some of what you have been smoking. 

Yeah, I think the word the OP is looking for is 'Confirmation Bias'.  He has a huge surplus.  :cap_popcorn:

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Dunking on aa and radar cruiser is one of the biggest early game impact plays you can do as a cv.

But dont worry though, spreadsheet shows you are not playing against normal players, and the cv you are up against are not playing normally.

Edited by mixmkz
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I wish they'd get rid of that slingshot thing.

I get that it's to stop planes from taking losses while not under control, but so what?

Let some of the non-participating planes get shot down, and buff regen times and reduce credit cost to compensate.

I think many people would be less upset by constant attacks, if their AA was actually dependable and able to mitigate damage somewhat consistently, (dependent on how good the ship's AA is of course) as opposed to closing the barn door after the horses are gone.

 

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Just now, Skpstr said:

I wish they'd get rid of that slingshot thing.

I get that it's to stop planes from taking losses while not under control, but so what?

Let some of the non-participating planes get shot down, and buff regen times and reduce credit cost to compensate.

I think many people would be less upset by constant attacks, if their AA was actually dependable and able to mitigate damage somewhat consistently, (dependent on how good the ship's AA is of course) as opposed to closing the barn door after the horses are gone.

 

The trick to sling shot is that there are no "non participating" planes.  You dump your first squad, they go back to the cv.  You use the 2nd squad to sling shot from outside the aa bubble, then they go back to the cv.  By the time you are over the intended target, you are on your last squad and you suicide them for the drop.

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6 minutes ago, mixmkz said:

The trick to sling shot is that there are no "non participating" planes.  You dump your first squad, they go back to the cv.  You use the 2nd squad to sling shot from outside the aa bubble, then they go back to the cv.  By the time you are over the intended target, you are on your last squad and you suicide them for the drop.

Ah ok, I didn't understand it properly then.

So what happens to the last squadron while the 2nd is making its "fake" attack run? Do they take damage while crossing the AA bands or not?

Edited by Skpstr

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Should show you how "required" it feels to have to do the slingshot in the first place.   

If you don't do it, you can't attack half the time.   Its a requirement.

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33 minutes ago, Skpstr said:

I wish they'd get rid of that slingshot thing.

I get that it's to stop planes from taking losses while not under control, but so what?

Let some of the non-participating planes get shot down, and buff regen times and reduce credit cost to compensate.

I think many people would be less upset by constant attacks, if their AA was actually dependable and able to mitigate damage somewhat consistently, (dependent on how good the ship's AA is of course) as opposed to closing the barn door after the horses are gone.

 

The anti-CV crowd will not like the idea that CV's would need a buff, they claim that sling shot is not necessary now but then most of them have little or no rework CV experience particularly in the upper tiers. However until those buffs are figured out it is necessary to have some planes in tier 10 matches.

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3 minutes ago, BrushWolf said:

The anti-CV crowd will not like the idea that CV's would need a buff, they claim that sling shot is not necessary now but then most of them have little or no rework CV experience particularly in the upper tiers. However until those buffs are figured out it is necessary to have some planes in tier 10 matches.

Perhaps you are right.  But from someone who is not in either camp, I feel this tactic is cheesy, silly, and exploitish.  If we need to buff DB's to get rid of an obvious game flaw, so be it!

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4 minutes ago, Glamorboy said:

Perhaps you are right.  But from someone who is not in either camp, I feel this tactic is cheesy, silly, and exploitish.  If we need to buff DB's to get rid of an obvious game flaw, so be it!

And currently absolutely necessary even with the AA bug where there is a reload delay before your AA fires as planes enter different range bands. If that bug is fixed it will become even more necessary without changes to plane survivability.

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2 minutes ago, BrushWolf said:

And currently absolutely necessary even with the AA bug where there is a reload delay before your AA fires as planes enter different range bands. If that bug is fixed it will become even more necessary without changes to plane survivability.

There is no bug.  The AA delay is working as intended and desired.

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49 minutes ago, Skpstr said:

Ah ok, I didn't understand it properly then.

So what happens to the last squadron while the 2nd is making its "fake" attack run? Do they take damage while crossing the AA bands or not?

They don't, or at least I don't think they do.  My squad usually arrives for the final drop full health.  

I think the mechanic is that right after you drop, the planes "artificially" speed up by a significant amount and during the animation of your camera zooming back on your planes, they takes no damage.  You typically sling shot from 8km away, which means you are doing the fake drop outside of AA range anyways.  But the speeding up and animation allows you to take control of your plane for the final drop about 3km away from the intended target, and that is when you start taking aa damage as you begin your final drop .

Edited by mixmkz

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31 minutes ago, HazeGrayUnderway said:

You should be happy Carriers can't do mass attacks and proper Hammer & Anvil Tactics.

 

*Anymore. They used to, and they hurt. Erasing GK's within 2 minutes of the battle from bombs and torps. Very fun and engaging indeed. The terror of wondering who would be deleted next in the following 3 or 4 minutes was terrible. Something people tend to forget nowadays.

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13 minutes ago, BrushWolf said:

And currently absolutely necessary even with the AA bug where there is a reload delay before your AA fires as planes enter different range bands. If that bug is fixed it will become even more necessary without changes to plane survivability.

You keep asserting that there would need to be a buff.  I see no reason for your assertion to be true. CVs at T10 on average already top every metric but capping itself.  There would be absolutely no reason to give a buff to compensate for a nerf or bug fix.  

Edited by eviltane
edit. Spelling , grammar added: " bug fix" at end.
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Really? I rarely if ever see anyone use the slingshot. Oh look! Two subjective personal accounts without any sort of evidence to support them having greater significance! I guess we just cancelled each other out! /thread

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2 hours ago, Gunga_Dinner said:

There is no bug.  The AA delay is working as intended and desired.

It also makes zero sense. a short, say one second might make sense but not any longer.

1 hour ago, SkaerKrow said:

Really? I rarely if ever see anyone use the slingshot. Oh look! Two subjective personal accounts without any sort of evidence to support them having greater significance! I guess we just cancelled each other out! /thread

The anti-CV crowd also want dry drops into nothing when far away from anyone done away with too. Since few of them have high tier CV experience they probably think that is the slingshot when that happens when the attacking planes are in the 8 - 10 km range of their target.

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1 minute ago, SkaerKrow said:

Really? I rarely if ever see anyone use the slingshot. Oh look! Two subjective personal accounts without any sort of evidence to support them having greater significance! I guess we just cancelled each other out! /thread

From my personal observations, mostly higher level CV players use slingshots regularly (Yuro's and Denarmo's CV vids regularly show slingshots being used, and both are pretty high ranking players). Others either don't know how to slingshot or chose not to slingshot out of principle. I personally rarely use it. Mostly because I find it cheap and gimmicky. I can still pull plenty of damage the "normal" way.

I never understood the issue with anecdotes. Isn't ALL data just a collection of anecdotes? How many anecdotes does it take to stop being anecdotes and become data? I see it as just data, in a smaller quantity. 

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As an avowed CV hater, I think the CV is most effective vs DDs and later vs isolated BB/CA in high tier games.  In mid tier, if the CV is so lucky to actually be in their actual tier, they seem to have better success vs all ships, but again should be hunting or killing DDs.  At lower tier the CVs pretty much can do whatever they want, as AA on most ships is laughable.  Here is where they can really impact the game... have had T4/5 BB or CA worn down by a good CV player regardless of AA support.

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29 minutes ago, Halonut24 said:

*Anymore. They used to, and they hurt. Erasing GK's within 2 minutes of the battle from bombs and torps. Very fun and engaging indeed. The terror of wondering who would be deleted next in the following 3 or 4 minutes was terrible. Something people tend to forget nowadays.

Oh yeah, people already forgot the pure alpha striking power of the old RTS CVs.  They actually think Rework CVs are more dangerous :Smile_trollface:

Kaga could come at you with a full 12 TB simultaneous drop with a DB squad.

Enterprise had 2 TB squads with 2 AP or HE DB squads.

Taiho, Hakuryu with 3 x 4 TB squads and additional HE DB squads.

Midway with 2 x 6 TB squads with 2 AP or HE DB squads.

 

Hakuryu and Midway were extremely dangerous in the state they were in just before the Rework hit.  The AP Midway's IMO were quite dangerous because they didn't care about DOT Stacking.  They could attack in one massive go, both TBs and both AP DB units and overwhelm most ships' AA.  Even AA Spec DM's had to be worried.  I'd play my AA DM and chew up all the other CVs' attack runs.  But a Mass Midway strike with TBs and AP Bombers at the same time was pretty scary and the pucker factor went considerably up.

 

People today whine about 2, 3, 4 plane TB attacks when in the Pre-CV Rework, you were being attacked by 8-12 TBs AT THE SAME TIME possibly coming from various angles or piling in from one angle with a mass of torpedoes.

 

Let's also not forget old Tier VII Kaga and her unusual Drop Patterns of Staggered Torpedoes.  She could focus drop both units to have a wall of torps coming from one side, as what they often did against Battleships.  Or against agile Destroyers, a cross drop causing a staggered web of criss crossing torpedoes that always jacked up the DD.  The drop wasn't the typical single line of torpedoes that can be easier to dodge with small, nimble ships.  Kaga took that away by sending two squads sending 2 successive waves of torps at you at the same time.

Edited by HazeGrayUnderway
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Slingshotting is situational, if they are doing it every time they attack then the CV has no idea what they are doing. Against the vast majority of targets, you don’t want to slingshot as it reduces your total squad health pool...

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18 minutes ago, eviltane said:

There would be absolutely no reason to give a buff to compensate for a nerf or bug fix.  

I don't think you can make a foregone conclusion either way.

Fixing that could potentially mean twice as many planes shot down, which could potentially cut damage in half.

At that point, it's up to WG. If they want CVs to do more than CA-level damage, there would be a reason right there.

Or it could have very little effect, a veritable red herring, in which case, there would be no reason for buffs.

You can't say what is or isn't required until the effects of such a change is known.

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17 minutes ago, eviltane said:

You keep asserting that there would need to be a buff.  I see no reason for your assertion to be true. CVs at T10 on average already top every metric but capping itself.  There would be absolutely no reason to give a buff to compensate for a nerf or bug fix.  

Their topping every metric really depends on where you are getting data. WoWStats does have them on top by an extreme and hard to believe margin while Maple Syrup which doesn't break them down by tier & country has them on top by a very small margin while WoWS Stats & Numbers has them mostly far below the top over a fairly wide spread in performance. If the delay in AA firing as planes change bands is fixed they will need buffs as even currently there are far too many ships that require the sling shot to get in a shot as they put up unavoidable walls of flak.

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1 hour ago, Legio_X_ said:

You see them do their little bomb drop before they get to you, then move up on your AA spec'ed woos. Do about 5-7 damage and lose maybe 1-2 planes in the process. Such balance. 

Well, I pulled a Notser in an earlier ranked match, and happened to be broadside to a red Kremlin.    Had he done what the CVs do (fire one volley into the water, aim at me with another volley, and then F-key out of there (not fire the third turret)), I would have taken that deal in a second.

As it stands, I got hit by all three turrets, and profusely apologized for going down rather early.

It can be a little aggravating, but you do know he's only "firing" one of three rounds at you, no?

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