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Sabene

“Here they come, boys...”

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“...get ready to load!”

Get ready?  Huh?

Who (TF) gets ‘ready’ to load when they see the enemy fast approaching?  Wouldn’t the sane person start loading as soon as the enemy is seen?

Main guns?  They start loading as soon as the enemy is known to be nearby (I.e., at game start).

Torpedos?  Same as main guns.

Secondaries?  I have no clue.  Anyone care to test?

But AA?  “Enjoy your coffee and crumpets, boys.  We aren’t allowed to load our guns until the enemy aircraft come into range.  Yeah, I KNOW we can see them...just enjoy your breakfast.”

 

I didn’t know of the AA delay until I read some recent posts.  

Response from WG is that the delay is purposeful?

 

What?  Inability to load the AA guns until the visible planes actually come into range, thereby causing a significant delay in AA.

 

Who designed this?  Do we get to vote on their Christmas bonus?

 

👎

Edited by Sabene
WG edited without saying what or why
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1 hour ago, Sabene said:

“...get ready to load!”

Get ready?  Huh?

Who (TF) gets ‘ready’ to load when they see the enemy fast approaching?  Wouldn’t the sane person start loading as soon as the enemy is seen?

Main guns?  They start loading as soon as the enemy is known to be nearby (I.e., at game start).

Torpedos?  Same as main guns.

Secondaries?  I have no clue.  Anyone care to test?

But AA?  “Enjoy your coffee and crumpets, boys.  We aren’t allowed to load our guns until the enemy aircraft come into range.  Yeah, I KNOW we can see them...just enjoy your breakfast.”

 

I didn’t know of the AA delay until I read some recent posts.  

Response from WG is that the delay is purposeful?

 

What?  Inability to load the AA guns until the visible planes actually come into range, thereby causing a significant delay in AA.

 

 

👎

I have no clue what you are talking about. My AA guns fire as soon as planes are in their range every single time.

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1 hour ago, Sabene said:

“...get ready to load!”

Get ready?  Huh?

Who (TF) gets ‘ready’ to load when they see the enemy fast approaching?  Wouldn’t the sane person start loading as soon as the enemy is seen?

Main guns?  They start loading as soon as the enemy is known to be nearby (I.e., at game start).

Torpedos?  Same as main guns.

Secondaries?  I have no clue.  Anyone care to test?

But AA?  “Enjoy your coffee and crumpets, boys.  We aren’t allowed to load our guns until the enemy aircraft come into range.  Yeah, I KNOW we can see them...just enjoy your breakfast.”

 

I didn’t know of the AA delay until I read some recent posts.  

Response from WG is that the delay is purposeful?

 

What?  Inability to load the AA guns until the visible planes actually come into range, thereby causing a significant delay in AA.

 

👎

It is designed that way so that CVs are more likely to be able to complete their first attack run.  The delay is only on the very first run.  Once the AA load timer starts it pauses when planes leave the aura.  So if the guns were 2 seconds into their reload time, they resume from that 2 second mark when planes again enter AA range.  Or that is how I understand the mechanic.

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31 minutes ago, Sabene said:

Secondaries?  I have no clue.  Anyone care to test?

There was a post a couple days ago. secondaries and AA start to load when a ship comes in range. They also stop in mid load when it sinks and no others are in range. They finish loading when the next ship gets in range.

Edited by Sovereigndawg

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It's supposed to be a bug or oversight on WG's part, but honestly, they had major trouble getting rework done simply. 0.8.0 CVs were easy enough for even casuals to do well enough in. Just make AA builds effective at wiping planes and see how it goes.

But we know WG. They rely too much on data instead of the fun factor for balancing.

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21 minutes ago, Vaffu said:

I have no clue what you are talking about. My AA guns fire as soon as planes are in their range every single time.

Your AA damage per second doesn't start when aircraft enter your aura, the guns only start loading.  This is by design.

"This is one of the problems with anti-aircraft firepower right now.  It needs to be rectified.  Currently, ships don't preload their anti-aircraft guns.  Yep, someone has to go run and fetch the ammo hoppers before your guns will shoot.  This means, using Thunderer as our example, that aircraft can sit in her long-range aura for 4.95 seconds before they take Continuous Damage.  Before the boost nerf, it was all too easy for aircraft carriers to rocket through some of the slower firing auras without taking a lick of damage.  It didn't matter how many damage boosts you applied, if you hadn't reinforced your sectors to increase your rate of fire, they were in and out before your guns would shoot once. Graf Zeppelin and Indomitable could make 0.7km/s with some of their strike aircraft, meaning that even if you did reinforce your sectors, there was long range AA that simply couldn't touch them. "

 

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Just now, Reymu said:

It's supposed to be a bug or oversight on WG's part, but honestly, they had major trouble getting rework done simply. 0.8.0 CVs were easy enough for even casuals to do well enough in. Just make AA builds effective at wiping planes and see how it goes.

But we know WG. They rely too much on data instead of the fun factor for balancing.

It isn't a bug or oversight.  It is working as intended and designed to work.

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For the ships that use their main guns as long range AA, the player should have to manually switch the shells out.  People complaining because they have a set of ghost turrets for AA while their mains are free to operate (secondaries too), even though it's the mains and secondaries that provide the AA on the AA heavy ships.   I think worcester and similar should have to load a new shell type and engage for their long range to work , DDs too.  Of course AA activities need to properly pay out as well.  There should also be secondary configurations that can be selected right up until the ship first moves that will allow modules / consumables / flags to have an A or B config.

I'd happily load up some AA in the DD and start going to town, especially if it paid properly.

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4 minutes ago, Gunga_Dinner said:

It isn't a bug or oversight.  It is working as intended and designed to work.

Speaking as a CV casual, it gives me too much power over the match.

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32 minutes ago, Vaffu said:

I have no clue what you are talking about. My AA guns fire as soon as planes are in their range every single time.

This actually isn't true, @LittleWhiteMouse did extensive research on this recently.

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1 minute ago, Reymu said:

Speaking as a CV casual, it gives me too much power over the match.

As I understand it, the full delay is only the first time you enter a ship's AA aura.  The AA reload timer pauses when the planes leave and resumes where it was paused the next time planes enter AA range.

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16 minutes ago, Sovereigndawg said:

There was a post a couple days ago. secondaries and AA start to load when a ship comes in range. They also stop in mid load when it sinks and no others are in range. They finish loading when the next ship gets in range.

One of the most ridiculous mechanics in a modern video game.

 

10 minutes ago, Gunga_Dinner said:

It isn't a bug or oversight.  It is working as intended and designed to work.

So it's deliberate bad design instead of programming ineptitude.

 

 

Edited by KilljoyCutter
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@KilljoyCutter

Something like that, yes.  In fact the only weapon system I am aware of in this game that DOESN'T require a load time is planes.  They are instantly and continually available, even when switching types.

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1 minute ago, KilljoyCutter said:

One of the most ridiculous mechanics in a modern video game.

I always thought that all weapons should be loaded at the start of the battle and be ready to fire. What Navy ever stopped loading guns half way through or didn't load the guns when at general quarters.

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8 minutes ago, Gunga_Dinner said:

Something like that, yes.  In fact the only weapon system I am aware of in this game that DOESN'T require a load time is planes.  They are instantly and continually available, even when switching types.

That's not true at all -- if you played a CV, you'd know this.  No reason to lie.  Cruisers load faster than aircraft can fire -- and there's not a 90 second wait after firing 3 times either.  There's also no way to lose all of your guns by magic ghost batteries forcing that 90 second wait before you can get off 2 shots.  Some occasions you can't shoot at all.

Edited by NoSoMo
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11 minutes ago, Gunga_Dinner said:

@KilljoyCutter

Something like that, yes.  In fact the only weapon system I am aware of in this game that DOESN'T require a load time is planes.  They are instantly and continually available, even when switching types.

Even when DAMAGED, which I think is a major issue.  I can do 99% damage to every plane in an attack wave, and unless I kill it, it will return in a few minutes fully repaired.

This whole CV thing is just a cluster.  Square peg,meet round hole.

Edited by Old_Baldy_One

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7 minutes ago, Sovereigndawg said:

I always thought that all weapons should be loaded at the start of the battle and be ready to fire. What Navy ever stopped loading guns half way through or didn't load the guns when at general quarters.

Think of the start of the match as the call to quarters.

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Just now, Old_Baldy_One said:

Even when DAMAGED, which I think is a major issue.  I can do 99% damage to every plane in an attack wave, and unless I kill it, it will return in a few minutes fully repaired.

The "not loaded yet" is just a tactic used to ensure that the CVs can get some attacks off.  Heaven forbid that CVs have to be selective of targets and not have someone they can successfully attack every run (like everyone else).

My opinion again:  bad AA boats should need to stay near AA boats - not the greatest gameplay but ok.  AA boats should be essentially immune to planes.  Without DFAA, fine, they get 1 run off.  With DFAA, they should be essentially immune ot planes (unless the planes use cover).

IMO CVs should be able to shoot down incoming shells and fire their 5" and 40s at incoming torps and destroy them.

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30 minutes ago, Gunga_Dinner said:

Your AA damage per second doesn't start when aircraft enter your aura, the guns only start loading.  This is by design.

"This is one of the problems with anti-aircraft firepower right now.  It needs to be rectified.  Currently, ships don't preload their anti-aircraft guns.  Yep, someone has to go run and fetch the ammo hoppers before your guns will shoot.  This means, using Thunderer as our example, that aircraft can sit in her long-range aura for 4.95 seconds before they take Continuous Damage.  Before the boost nerf, it was all too easy for aircraft carriers to rocket through some of the slower firing auras without taking a lick of damage.  It didn't matter how many damage boosts you applied, if you hadn't reinforced your sectors to increase your rate of fire, they were in and out before your guns would shoot once. Graf Zeppelin and Indomitable could make 0.7km/s with some of their strike aircraft, meaning that even if you did reinforce your sectors, there was long range AA that simply couldn't touch them. "

 

I'm amused that the picture I posted near the end of the thread gets attached, not the picture that LittleWhiteMouse put into the actual post itself. 

Go home, forum software, you're drunk.

(The crop is pretty well done, though, so you're a talented drunk!)

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12 minutes ago, NoSoMo said:

Think of the start of the match as the call to quarters.

One of the battle-start voice messages even says "General Quarters!"

 

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7 minutes ago, NoSoMo said:

That's not true at all -- if you played a CV, you'd know this.  No reason to lie.  Cruisers load faster than aircraft can fire -- and there's not a 90 second wait after firing 3 times either.  There's also no way to lose all of your guns by magic ghost batteries forcing that 90 second wait before you can get off 2 shots.  Some occasions you can't shoot at all.

Lie?  Tell me what CV can't launch planes instantly, the moment the game starts or they hit the magic F key?

I have played CVs and I apparently wasn't clear in my point.  Planes launch instantly, you never have to wait for them to load like you have to do with main batteries, torpedoes, and AA.  Granted, you may not launch a full squadron, but there are planes available for immediate launch.  You are never caught sitting there watching a timer count down like every other class of ship is.  You can choose to wait, but that is your choice.

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Yall wanna see CV damage go up? Because whining over this is how its gonna happen guys remember WG uses metrics 

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1 hour ago, Vaffu said:

I have no clue what you are talking about. My AA guns fire as soon as planes are in their range every single time.

The graphics start immediately, but they don't actually start applying any damage until after a loading cycle.

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1 hour ago, Vengeance said:

The animation starts but there is a delay until you start doing damage 

This!! 

I had this problem yesterday with my Worcester , even with DEFAA activated. 

Like 10 seconds until I start hitting airplanes even when I saw the tracers - bullets flying 

It gave them enough time to drop bombs on me. 

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