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Landing_Skipper

Kremlin AA

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For everyone who uses the term “sky cancer” just get a Kremlin. It’s effectively untouchable even when YOLOing. 

GD Russians... once again what were they thinking? (Or drinking?)

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Nah. No AA matters against a good enough carrier. Plus, Kreml's AA is so concentrated in the superstructure that it can be spammed down rather easily.

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2 hours ago, Kingpin61 said:

Nah. No AA matters against a good enough carrier. Plus, Kreml's AA is so concentrated in the superstructure that it can be spammed down rather easily.

I’m sorry but this is beginning to sound like the “endless supply of planes” line. Mino AA matters. A few other ships are very difficult to strike until they’ve been worn down by HE. 

Kremlin AA is ridiculous compared to other Tier 10 battleships. Maybe the 2 I’ve encountered so far were full health, but their AA was brutal. I’d rather drop any other T10 ship except for Mino and maybe Worcester. 

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A hak came after me at some point shot down 35 of his plane and he didn't killed me 

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Here's what a Secondary Spec Kremlin AA looks like:

x7R8NjT.jpg

Compared to my Des Moines.

WkEMa4e.jpg

 

Republique, Montana AA range is capped at 6km.  My DM, an AA Cruiser, her AA range is capped at 5.8km.

 

The good news for your Carriers is nobody is going to do a Secondary Spec Kremlin for PVP.  But you are likely going to find some sort of hybrid with Survival and some AA traits.  I can very easily see that happening if the Kremlin player gives up Concealment Expert and he has 19pts to work with.

Edited by HazeGrayUnderway
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I'm sorry, 6.6km? When pretty much every other ship gets capped out at between 5.8 and 6? I thought planes were supposed to be these things' Achilles Heel, thanks Bussian Rias.

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1 hour ago, Landsraad said:

I'm sorry, 6.6km? When pretty much every other ship gets capped out at between 5.8 and 6? I thought planes were supposed to be these things' Achilles Heel, thanks Bussian Rias.

The amusing thing is that the largest AA guns she has are 130mm and they reach 6.6km, while the 127mm DP guns on High Tier USN BBs cap out much lower.

 

The only ships with longer range AA than Kremlin (IIRC) are Seattle, Worcester, Neptune, Minotaur.  Only because they got the larger 152mm DP guns.

 

Anyways.  Was fooling around with the Fitting Tool and did a sort of AA - Survival - Main Battery Hybrid build with Kremlin.  She supposedly would look like this:

zUpyAgg.jpg

 

And here's a Montana with an AA - Survival - Main Battery Hybrid Build also.

lS49c3Q.jpg

Edited by HazeGrayUnderway

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1 hour ago, HazeGrayUnderway said:

The amusing thing is that the largest AA guns she has are 130mm and they reach 6.6km, while the 127mm DP guns on High Tier USN BBs cap out much lower.

The only ships with longer range AA than Kremlin (IIRC) are Seattle, Worcester, Neptune, Minotaur.  Only because they got the larger 152mm DP guns.

Yet the 130mm DPs on Dunkerque cap out at 5.19km. And here I thought that AA ranges were more consistent now, hence why HERMELIN of all ships gets over 5km of AA range.

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284b02612a7322558a24c78f85f56afc.png

 

Making a full aa build Kremlin i wanted to see what the values would be. Sadly this tool does not factor in flak. But I will

First the sector focus is 50% which is not accounted for so we will do a 1.5x on the values
 

LR 804

MR 1203

SR 1638

 

Now some of you may think flak is nothing but a skill test, which tb you are correct, but considering you can take 12 flak at the LR and 13 at the MR means thats a ton of skill to dodge. In general on ship below the 10 flak burst, I find the average of 2 impacts per zone to be semi-accurate.

LR has a base of 1820 + 30% from skills and mods then have the sector bonus factored. Or (1820+546)x in this case x is 1.5 so. 3549 per burst

LR with focus/without focus/weakside  3549/2369/1184.5

MR with focus/without focus/weakside 2184/1456/728

to compare this with a full aa monty we would get something like 

 

Constant values with focus

LR 525

MR  1363

SR 1716

Flak wise Montana can get 10 in the LR and 14 in the MR

LR 2898/1932/966

MR 1811/1207/603

 

Conclusion. A Kremlin while stronger in the LR is for the most part relatively similar to a Montana in terms of aa output. The Montana however has a bigger advantage due to the fighter consumable.

Now these are not meta builds just min-maxing for aa. Most would not take the AFT

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18 hours ago, The_Chiv said:

284b02612a7322558a24c78f85f56afc.png

 

Making a full aa build Kremlin i wanted to see what the values would be. Sadly this tool does not factor in flak. But I will

First the sector focus is 50% which is not accounted for so we will do a 1.5x on the values
 

LR 804

MR 1203

SR 1638

 

Now some of you may think flak is nothing but a skill test, which tb you are correct, but considering you can take 12 flak at the LR and 13 at the MR means thats a ton of skill to dodge. In general on ship below the 10 flak burst, I find the average of 2 impacts per zone to be semi-accurate.

LR has a base of 1820 + 30% from skills and mods then have the sector bonus factored. Or (1820+546)x in this case x is 1.5 so. 3549 per burst

LR with focus/without focus/weakside  3549/2369/1184.5

MR with focus/without focus/weakside 2184/1456/728

to compare this with a full aa monty we would get something like 

 

Constant values with focus

LR 525

MR  1363

SR 1716

Flak wise Montana can get 10 in the LR and 14 in the MR

LR 2898/1932/966

MR 1811/1207/603

 

Conclusion. A Kremlin while stronger in the LR is for the most part relatively similar to a Montana in terms of aa output. The Montana however has a bigger advantage due to the fighter consumable.

Now these are not meta builds just min-maxing for aa. Most would not take the AFT

Interesting data; however, your conclusion does not compute completely. Kremlin flak looks stronger overall by a significant percentage.

Plus you are not taking the range differential into account. 6.6 km vs. 5.8 is a 14% advantage to Kremlin. That is a LOT more time to kill planes. 

Edited by Landing_Skipper
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19 minutes ago, Landing_Skipper said:

Interesting data; however, your conclusion does not compute completely. Kremlin flak looks stronger overall by a significant percentage.

Plus you are not taking the range differential into account. 6.6 km vs. 5.8 is a 14% advantage to Kremlin. That is a LOT more time to kill planes. 

.8km in the LR versus a fighter. my money is still on the fighter.

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16 hours ago, The_Chiv said:

.8km in the LR versus a fighter. my money is still on the fighter.

Except that .8km is always there. Can't be baited out or on cooldown. The first attack squad sees your fighter and heads elsewhere. Second squad comes back later with only the AA to worry about.

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11 hours ago, Sabot_100 said:

Except that .8km is always there. Can't be baited out or on cooldown. The first attack squad sees your fighter and heads elsewhere. Second squad comes back later with only the AA to worry about.

true but fighters equal kills when used correctly

 

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4 hours ago, The_Chiv said:

true but fighters equal kills when used correctly

So does the extra time in the kill zone (although that is all RNG on the targets part). CV players forgetting the the Soviets are special and can hit you when you think you are out of range. That .8 might be good for one more flak burst or "continual" damage burst. Not huge, but remember that was one of the great forum outcries when the AA flags and skills no longer gave you additional range with the rework

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On 5/31/2019 at 3:57 PM, Sabot_100 said:

Except that .8km is always there. Can't be baited out or on cooldown. The first attack squad sees your fighter and heads elsewhere. Second squad comes back later with only the AA to worry about.

The added benefit is that Long Range AA tends to be the sturdier, fully enclosed DP turrets in these tiers.  USN 127mm DP turrets, French 100mm DP turrets, and on Kremlin, her 130mm DP turrets.  It's the heart of her long range AA.  Smaller AA guns with the exposed gun crews are the ones that get obliterated quickly.

 

Case in point, back during the Pre-CV Rework days, I was playing my AA Spec Alabama.  I sailed into a bad position where a distant Schors and an island camping Atlanta started spamming the hell out of me.  I got away intact but I lost a lot of HP to them from HE shell damage and numerous fires.  It was a CV game.  The enemy CV player was a Ryujo, who never attacked me until after those two CLs spammed and burned the sh*t out of me.  Yet when the RJ's planes came, I obliterated the entire bomber attack.  I think only 1 Dive Bomber managed to drop a bomb that wildly missed.  The RJ player asked why he still lost all his planes.  He waited until my BB lost tons and tons of HP.  He watched my HP bleed from the gunfire and fires.  Yet he lost everything.

 

I just told him that my 127mm DP guns are sturdy.  My Bofors, etc. got messed up, but my DP guns were still up.

Edited by HazeGrayUnderway

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