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mrkimba

Disparity Between CV Captain's Abilities

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One of the stated goals in the CV rework was to make it so that the game outcome would not hing upon the CV captain's game playing ability. Has that been achieved?

If not, what should be done about it?

Should there be something done about it?

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There is still a huge skill gap between very good and bad CV players and as I see it that skill gap is in all ships not just CV... so no nothing should be done about it. We have had enough dumbing down of the game for bad players as it is. 

Edited by USMC2145
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I've played around 350 games in cvs since rework and the skill gap is there, the team feels it but the cv captain doesn't feel it as much. Before the rework you knew when you were shut down by a enemy cv , now is harder to tell because they don't shoot your planes down. But the proof is in the final xp page of the game. The two biggest skill gap class is cv and dd. The proof is go to global stats page, click on the top 50% of a certain ship and it'll show you a big win rate gap. Cvs and dds have the biggest win rate gaps between the class player base... That's why I play dd and cv is to make a bigger difference in the outcome... 

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Well here's a proposal which makes everyone a Happy Tim.

The better you play on a ship historically, the more RNG is injected into your ship's play factors. You know, those little variables that cause shells to miss, to bounce, to overpen, every little possible variable. Let's petition WoWS/WG to do it, say 8.5 patch yah? 

You don't think player differences on other ship types affect gameplay? How about two DD players, one unicum, the other joe averages between 40/50 percent. Their impact is just as great as a carrier, especially when there are three or four per team. Why don't we mess with their ships' variables to buff or nerf them every single match? 

The same is true of any ship type in the game. It's the PLAYER more than the ship. 

I bet if they did this everyone would be happy because you'd be just as good as the next guy, every single game. No matter the ship type, you'd be just as good. Why it's a win win win situation. 

 

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After the rework, I can't 100% dominate the enemy CV and the fight's outcome comes down to who has the better team.

 

CVs doesn't decide who win or loses, if your team lost the early fight already, of course you're going to lose the late game, even if you manage to sink everyone but the enemy CV, if their team has cap advantage, it's usually over.

 

And guess who caps?

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@mrkimba No it did not change the skill gap for the better. There is nothing WG can do either to accomplish that.

A highly skilled player is more likely to do better in any type ship against lesser skilled players in any type ship.

Perhaps the only thing that might change that would be a handicap process. Lower skilled/Win rate players are given better dispersion and weapon damage strength or higher skilled/Win rate players worse dispersion and weapon damage strength. Only those around 50/50 would be playing with the stated ship stats unless they improved or went down.

This would make some happy and many not.

 

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The early fight, you mean the one where you rocket the DDs to death, and can perma spot. Just because you cant dominate a enemy CV does not mean you are not dominating the game. Take away the rocket planes and we should be good, they are too fast and too accurate in their current form, maybe slow down the regeneration a bit as well that way you "care" what you attack.

Edited by vikingno2
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1 hour ago, vikingno2 said:

The early fight, you mean the one where you rocket the DDs to death, and can perma spot. Just because you cant dominate a enemy CV does not mean you are not dominating the game. Take away the rocket planes and we should be good, they are too fast and too accurate in their current form, maybe slow down the regeneration a bit as well that way you "care" what you attack.

CV players already “care” what they attack. It’s why they attack DDs in the early part of the game. They’re usually alone and less well defended. Attacking groups even as small as two is usually bad news for the CV’s planes. 

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4 hours ago, mrkimba said:

One of the stated goals in the CV rework was to make it so that the game outcome would not hing upon the CV captain's game playing ability. Has that been achieved?

If not, what should be done about it?

Should there be something done about it?

You cannot nerf skill.

You see that in every ship type.  It is felt the most in CVs and DDs due to damage or vision and cap control they provide.

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Cv become more and more powerful later into the game, just like dd.  Unlike dd, cv has almost no chance of dying early game.  Some times.. actually I just think the dev dont really play their own game at all.

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1 hour ago, vikingno2 said:

So you agree with the other points thank you

Youre making conclusions not supported by evidence. 

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17 minutes ago, mixmkz said:

Cv become more and more powerful later into the game, just like dd.  Unlike dd, cv has almost no chance of dying early game.  Some times.. actually I just think the dev dont really play their own game at all.

DDs could easily arrange to survive until the late game. Most just choose to recklessly risk their ship in the early game. I’m not saying that one approach is necessarily better or worse, just that if the DD decided to survive until the endgame it’s really easy to arrange. 

WG set up the mechanics of the battle. They don’t tell you how to fight your ship. That’s all on the individual players. 

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4 hours ago, Herr_Reitz said:

Well here's a proposal which makes everyone a Happy Tim.

The better you play on a ship historically, the more RNG is injected into your ship's play factors. You know, those little variables that cause shells to miss, to bounce, to overpen, every little possible variable. Let's petition WoWS/WG to do it, say 8.5 patch yah? 

You don't think player differences on other ship types affect gameplay? How about two DD players, one unicum, the other joe averages between 40/50 percent. Their impact is just as great as a carrier, especially when there are three or four per team. Why don't we mess with their ships' variables to buff or nerf them every single match? 

The same is true of any ship type in the game. It's the PLAYER more than the ship. 

I bet if they did this everyone would be happy because you'd be just as good as the next guy, every single game. No matter the ship type, you'd be just as good. Why it's a win win win situation. 

 

Maybe we should give out Kraken awards to every captain too.....why not, then we'll all feel better.

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21 minutes ago, FineousFingers said:

DDs could easily arrange to survive until the late game. Most just choose to recklessly risk their ship in the early game. I’m not saying that one approach is necessarily better or worse, just that if the DD decided to survive until the endgame it’s really easy to arrange. 

WG set up the mechanics of the battle. They don’t tell you how to fight your ship. That’s all on the individual players. 

CV would need to purposely go out of their way to die within the first few mins to surface ship.  Most dd are just incompetent, if you give dd 100km torps and ability to cap by just looking at a cap, the same incompetent dd survival rates would be higher as well. 

Its like giving an idiot a loaded gun and hoping they wont shoot themselves or giving an idiot a gun that has no ammo. Still an extremely ill thought out game mechanic with cv.

Edited by mixmkz

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Thanks all for replying. I hope the questions I raise are informative to others as they are to me.

I am a DD main who loves to play the IJN torpedo boats at high tiers. I see the CV as one more thing to watch out for and yes, I get frustrated when the CV ruins my day. However, I can only imagine others feeling the same way when I get first blood. 

 

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I was in a game yesterday and the answer is yes...however painful it is to admit we do not have the blowout CV Alpha strike crying we used to have...it is much more painful and drawn out now and CV's have to work for there kills now but I do believe it is WAYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYyyyyyyyyyyy better than previously for all ship classes despite the pain when one feels the brunt of a CV attack it is still more balanced then it EVER was.

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From what I see in my Audacious is the priorities of the CV make a huge impact. Is he farming BBs or is he spotting the caps? I always play the objectives even if it means sacrificing my damage numbers. DDs don’t provide much in the way of numbers but harassing and shutting them down while dropping a fighter for yours can determine the outcome. Once all that’s handled there’s usually still a BB to work on. Besides CV, a good DD is the most lethal ship in the game.

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12 hours ago, Herr_Reitz said:

You don't think player differences on other ship types affect gameplay? How about two DD players, one unicum, the other joe averages between 40/50 percent. Their impact is just as great as a carrier, especially when there are three or four per team.

I would agree that if one team has four great destroyers and one team has four average destroyers, that game is already decided just as surely as if the carriers are unevenly matched.  The impact of one individual destroyer is less than that of a carrier though.  Even in a one DD game, the destroyer can only be in one place at a time, and it takes a couple minutes to go from one spot to the other.  By contrast a good carrier can quickly go to any spot on the map that needs his attention and deliver maximum impact there.

Had a streak a little while ago where the other team had a significantly better carrier than ours 6 games in a row.  It was brutal.  People are right, it's not as apparent as it used to be, but when your guy averages 30k damage in his midway and the other guy does 110k, you're going to be feeling it by the end of the game.

 

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My point was that CV have planes that are too fast and that they rocket DDs to death fairly easily, we can take a poll on that if you wish. I just noticed that you chose one work in a sentence to harp on instead of really discussing the problem

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12 hours ago, Herr_Reitz said:

I bet if they did this everyone would be happy because you'd be just as good as the next guy, every single game. No matter the ship type, you'd be just as good. Why it's a win win win situation. 

And you get a participation rainbow hat too!  What the hell would be the point of playing then?   Just go suck some eggs.

Unless you're just kidding...right?

Edited by slokill_1

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1 hour ago, slokill_1 said:

And you get a participation rainbow hat too!  What the hell would be the point of playing then?   Just go suck some eggs.

Unless you're just kidding...right?

Yes. 

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2 hours ago, Brhinosaurus said:

I would agree that if one team has four great destroyers and one team has four average destroyers, that game is already decided just as surely as if the carriers are unevenly matched.  The impact of one individual destroyer is less than that of a carrier though.  Even in a one DD game, the destroyer can only be in one place at a time, and it takes a couple minutes to go from one spot to the other.  By contrast a good carrier can quickly go to any spot on the map that needs his attention and deliver maximum impact there.

Had a streak a little while ago where the other team had a significantly better carrier than ours 6 games in a row.  It was brutal.  People are right, it's not as apparent as it used to be, but when your guy averages 30k damage in his midway and the other guy does 110k, you're going to be feeling it by the end of the game.

 

Having played a couple of carrier matches since the rework I would like to say how the team plays has a huge impact on the carrier damage values. When you team is almost doing everything wrong it's very challenging to get much in the way of damage. For example, if the team is screaming for spotting/fighters for air cover and the like, the carrier can try to fulfill those requests but of course they will sacrifice their damage count to do it. 

It's not an easy beam to walk. OTOH I have seen carrier players who actually do run to a corner of the map and just circle about. It happened this morning. Every single red ship was moving into our cap. I was down there trying to stop at least four ships from capping. I say "at least" because I don't remember the exact count. I do remember our other carrier had driving all the way to the north to support our attempt to cap reds. 

He knew every single red ship was focused on our cap and me but still would not cap... nor lend his aircraft to attack the bbs attacking our cap and me. 

Maybe every ship type should have "requirements" for playing the ship in randoms. It'd be great if we had two major groups: Major Leagues and Minor Leagues. How you'd qualify players I'd leave up to you all to figure. It wouldn't be win rate or anything along those lines but it would have to have certain levels of performance.

Of course, once you hit the major league you wouldn't be able to play the minor leagues without heavy penalties... which would of course take away the joy of seal clubbing. 

I cant's really see another means of dealing with player differences in potentially powerful ships. Remember... if it wasn't carriers we'd be talking BBs, DDs or cruisers... to a lesser degree but we would, you just know it. :cap_haloween:

Edited by Herr_Reitz

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11 hours ago, mixmkz said:

CV would need to purposely go out of their way to die within the first few mins to surface ship.  Most dd are just incompetent, if you give dd 100km torps and ability to cap by just looking at a cap, the same incompetent dd survival rates would be higher as well. 

Its like giving an idiot a loaded gun and hoping they wont shoot themselves or giving an idiot a gun that has no ammo. Still an extremely ill thought out game mechanic with cv.

Not at all. There is a definite advantage to having the CV closer to the fighting. It means more risk to the CV, yes. But it also means much shorter flight times for planes traveling to the battle and then returning to the carrier. So a lot more attacks on targets. 

Im not good enough yet that I’m willing to play it that close, but I’ve seen players that do quite successfully. 

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There always will be skill differentials. That's the point of the game. The difference is that they severely reduced the power that CVs held over the game as a whole and made them easier to play so that it is much easier for a team to have a beginner CV and not get steamrolled. In the old RTS I could tell whether or not I was going to lose by which CV players were in the game. Elite AA cruisers could survive somewhat but everyone else would just get cross-dropped to death unless you had a really skilled CV captain who knew how to strafe and was really attentive. In this version most CVs will just do middle-of-the pack damage and you aren't dependent on your CV's skill solely to counter the other CV. 

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