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EasternSun

Make Planes count towards point loss and damage reset plane launches

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Since CV's are here to stay there does have to be something that affects them negatively. Since they changed them to have unlimited planes make each plane worth 1 point. This will introduce a negative for CV players who throw their planes away and keep respawning.

 

There also needs to be a late game penalty added that stops them from relaunching wave after wave when their under attack by a DD. Make their deck reset the planes every time they get hit. this way they can't finish off ships that hunt them down.

 

Edited by EasternSun
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Giving one person's play a direct influence on points is a recipe for disaster. 

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4 minutes ago, 1SneakyDevil said:

Unlimited planes doesn't equal full squadrons every launch so that is the penalty if you missed it.

sorry but it's already been proven that players can spawn more planes that a carrier has in hanger space.

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14 minutes ago, _1204_ said:

Giving one person's play a direct influence on points is a recipe for disaster. 

Sailing your ship and yoloing is the same equivalent. I'm not saying give it unlimited point loss. set a cap of the total CV points -65, just make the planes loss count towards it.

 

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2 minutes ago, 1SneakyDevil said:

Unlimited planes doesn't equal full squadrons every launch so that is the penalty if you missed it.

The closer you get in the DD (or any ship for arguments sake) the less downtime between strikes by the CV. Unless almost having no planes it doesn't matter if you do lose a few planes because the next squad is up while the other one is landing due to the speed of replacement. Given small calibre HE does bugger all and if angled just slightly AP is useless this makes for almost (seemingly) pointless attacks on CVs as they will kill you far easier than the reverse. Given they are so often back line snipers (effectively) something should be made to make them fragile/glass when in close quarters (<10km), which in my opinion at present does not exist. They just get stronger in many respects unless you can somehow dev strike them (ie RNG smiles on you in a BB).

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3 minutes ago, EasternSun said:

sorry but it's already been proven that players can spawn more planes that a carrier has in hanger space.

Weak argument since ships return to port with no scratches, DDs fire more torps than they carried, etc. The game is not based on reality if you haven't noticed.

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29 minutes ago, EasternSun said:

Since they changed them to have unlimited planes

 

FYojejp.gif

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40 minutes ago, EasternSun said:

Since CV's are here to stay there does have to be something that affects them negatively. Since they changed them to have unlimited planes make each plane worth 1 point. This will introduce a negative for CV players who throw their planes away and keep respawning.

 

There also needs to be a late game penalty added that stops them from relaunching wave after wave when their under attack by a DD. Make their deck reset the planes every time they get hit. this way they can't finish off ships that hunt them down.

 

Do you really want to lose a game because your CV kept suiciding his planes?

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19 minutes ago, _Madcows_ said:

The closer you get in the DD (or any ship for arguments sake) the less downtime between strikes by the CV. Unless almost having no planes it doesn't matter if you do lose a few planes because the next squad is up while the other one is landing due to the speed of replacement. Given small calibre HE does bugger all and if angled just slightly AP is useless this makes for almost (seemingly) pointless attacks on CVs as they will kill you far easier than the reverse. Given they are so often back line snipers (effectively) something should be made to make them fragile/glass when in close quarters (<10km), which in my opinion at present does not exist. They just get stronger in many respects unless you can somehow dev strike them (ie RNG smiles on you in a BB).

As a DD player I'm more than aware and yet I'm not triggered by CVs in battles.

Additionally, you ever hear of torpedoes? If you are that close you are not killing them with guns as a primary option unless you made a poor torp run to start with.

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5 minutes ago, 1SneakyDevil said:

As a DD player I'm more than aware and yet I'm not triggered by CVs in battles.

Additionally, you ever hear of torpedoes? If you are that close you are not killing them with guns as a primary option unless you made a poor torp run to start with.

CV can send waves of planes after you before you get into torpedo range even at 10km

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1 minute ago, EasternSun said:

CV can send waves of planes after you before you get into torpedo range even at 10km

Again, I play plenty of DD. I'm more than aware of what a CV can do and have no issues with the current setup.

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Imagine a day without some stupid suggestion that grant surface ship some kind of immunity against CV.

 

Also obligatory

1392277971_Prinzpopcorn.jpg.de0ace13c3e1345df3e820c87e7b7ce9.jpg

 

Edited by AlcatrazNC
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I don't think points per plane are necessary but there needs to be a timer between plane launches, something like 30 seconds, the same as a BB's reload. Being able to launch a strike on a ship nearby, hit F to return your planes then immediately launch another strike is a bit illogical.

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Have better ideas or stay away from theorycrafting game balance. :Smile_smile:

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2 hours ago, EasternSun said:

sorry but it's already been proven that players can spawn more planes that a carrier has in hanger space.

It has also been proved that 1 HE bomb would split a DD in half though

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2 hours ago, RipNuN2 said:

 

FYojejp.gif

I'm a pretty lousy CV player and I've never ran out of planes. At worst it's been a temporary wait before I could sent a large enough squadron worth launching. Yes, they are unlimited.

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1 hour ago, hexeris said:

I don't think points per plane are necessary but there needs to be a timer between plane launches, something like 30 seconds, the same as a BB's reload. Being able to launch a strike on a ship nearby, hit F to return your planes then immediately launch another strike is a bit illogical.

I would fine with a small cooldown period between launches of squadrons. 

However, with the current changes incoming including the delay at the start of the match it would be another huge nerf on top of nerfs.  If they were remove the delay period at the start of the match for just a, say a 15 sec cooldown between launches, I would be fine with it.  There is a negative side to this as the CV player would more likely, if he doesn't suicide his planes, have full squadrons at late game.

I don't agree with OP idea.  Its been suggested before and it is still a horrible idea.

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I don't think having planes account for points is the way to go (an interesting idea, though), but as a new player - well, an old one that came back after a 2+ year pause - I think that something could be done with damage to planes is handled.

In the attached screenshot, you can see that my Budyonny dealt close to 13,500 damage to enemy planes from a Lexington, yet only shot down 4 planes. All the damage that didn't outright kill a plane, was essentially pointless, because (as I understand it) using the F key instantly teleports the planes back to the carrier and all damage they suffered (but survived) is also instantly negated. Would anyone be fine with, say, DDs being able to insta-repair all damage, as soon as they go unspotted?

So how about this?

Planes have to actually fly _back_ to their carrier (either controlled by the player or on auto-pilot, so the player can control another squadron) _and_ the game tracks damage dealt to surviving planes, so planes take some time to be repaired (kinda like a cool-down _per plane_ according to the amount of damage it received.

Would this work?

I don't know, just throwing out ideas here.

 

 

6911120_Aircraftdamage1-2xLexington-Budyonny.thumb.jpg.7de5a3e0a2fbaede52cbdca84b12a7dd.jpg

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2 hours ago, 1SneakyDevil said:

As a DD player I'm more than aware and yet I'm not triggered by CVs in battles.

Additionally, you ever hear of torpedoes? If you are that close you are not killing them with guns as a primary option unless you made a poor torp run to start with.

A CV running away from you is all but safe from torps....

Late game you may need to kill the other ship or lose by points (because the CV will just perma interrupt a capture or simply kill you anyway.)

CVs have HP which would require multiple torp hits, not garrantueed by a long short and easily dodged lets be honest by moving your autopilot.... WASD by the laziest means ever....

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Possibly an alternative to points would be that the extent of damage done to a squadron would translate to a reload timer for putting them back up, regardless of whether or not they get shot down. ie if your planes come home, but they are essentially swiss cheese then you are delayed the next flight a commensurate period of time (ie to patch up the planes or the pilots who would be equally shot to bits/wounded etc etc

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30 minutes ago, MAD_3R_Marauder said:

I don't think having planes account for points is the way to go (an interesting idea, though), but as a new player - well, an old one that came back after a 2+ year pause - I think that something could be done with damage to planes is handled.

In the attached screenshot, you can see that my Budyonny dealt close to 13,500 damage to enemy planes from a Lexington, yet only shot down 4 planes. All the damage that didn't outright kill a plane, was essentially pointless, because (as I understand it) using the F key instantly teleports the planes back to the carrier and all damage they suffered (but survived) is also instantly negated. Would anyone be fine with, say, DDs being able to insta-repair all damage, as soon as they go unspotted?

So how about this?

Planes have to actually fly _back_ to their carrier (either controlled by the player or on auto-pilot, so the player can control another squadron) _and_ the game tracks damage dealt to surviving planes, so planes take some time to be repaired (kinda like a cool-down _per plane_ according to the amount of damage it received.

Would this work?

I don't know, just throwing out ideas here.

 

 

6911120_Aircraftdamage1-2xLexington-Budyonny.thumb.jpg.7de5a3e0a2fbaede52cbdca84b12a7dd.jpg

Planes already do fly back to the carrier once recalled. They are just no longer shown on the map after they hit the altitude at which they gain immunity to surface fire. And before you suggest that planes should be vulnerable for their entire trip back, that means that carriers would be encouraged to only hit targets that are close to them. That sounds like a good idea until you realize that being on the part of a team opposite an opposing CV would be a nightmare. A lot of CV theoretical damage output is lost due to selecting the right targets, some of which can be very far away. But if correct target selection is as simple as "whatever happens to be in front" then the receiving end of the enemy team is going to be doing a lot of receiving. But who knows, maybe trading a CV's ability to strike anywhere for increased local presence would be more balanced in the end. Hard to say for sure.

 

Planes being instantly repaired as soon as they return to the carrier is a carry-over from the RTS system, where planes only existed as fully alive or fully dead with no in-between. Incorporating damage into the regen timers could be interesting, but it's up to WG to determine if damaged planes forcing a recall is enough of a punishment already, or if more must be done. Personally I think only the T10 CVs vomit out enough high-health planes to be worth nerfing in such a manner, but I don't want more global balance changes that end up wrecking lower-tier CVs (looking at you, IJN torp nerfs).

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4 hours ago, 1SneakyDevil said:

Weak argument since ships return to port with no scratches, DDs fire more torps than they carried, etc. The game is not based on reality if you haven't noticed.

Not to mention that there's only one CV that's really capable of doing so under the new system. If it's a CV that's not named KAGA, then it's highly unlikely that they'll put up more planes than they had in their pre-rework form.

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43 minutes ago, Flashtirade said:

Planes already do fly back to the carrier once recalled. They are just no longer shown on the map after they hit the altitude at which they gain immunity to surface fire. And before you suggest that planes should be vulnerable for their entire trip back, that means that carriers would be encouraged to only hit targets that are close to them. That sounds like a good idea until you realize that being on the part of a team opposite an opposing CV would be a nightmare. A lot of CV theoretical damage output is lost due to selecting the right targets, some of which can be very far away. But if correct target selection is as simple as "whatever happens to be in front" then the receiving end of the enemy team is going to be doing a lot of receiving. But who knows, maybe trading a CV's ability to strike anywhere for increased local presence would be more balanced in the end. Hard to say for sure.

Question: How long does it take a squadron from the player hitting the F key to being not rendered anymore? I seem to remember a video by iChase, where this was instantaneous.

Because if it _is_ instantaneous, what's the difference of them being teleported with a cool-down (based on distance to the carrier) before that squadron can be used again and them actually flying back, but not being rendered, other than semantics?

If it _isn't_ instantaneous, then you can consider this point void.

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5 hours ago, EasternSun said:

sorry but it's already been proven that players can spawn more planes that a carrier has in hanger space.

Quite the contrary -- CVs have limited planes.  They simply bring more up from the hangar which some call incorrectly label "regenerate" or "spawn".  They're just bringing them up from the hangar deck and there's nothing unlimited about them.  In WW2 they were hanging them from the ceiling and putting them everywhere.  They could pack 200 onto a ship.  Midway on the other hand is doing good to have 80 planes in a match, and when they're down to 1-3 of each type, they are deplaned.  That might be good for a strike on a DD, but DDs don't survive that long.  Everything else will shoot down 3 planes before getting off an attack, with the exception of the TBs, but considering even a BB can avoid those, while also being the longest to bring up from the hangar deck, they're useless.   If you actually paid attention to the numbers in the detail screen, you'll see the fighters getting shot down, and those a) don't come from the CV, and b) can't shoot surface ships.  Each CV can call upon up to 74 of such aircraft, depending on various options and class.

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