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How Bad Is The Economy at T10 in PVE?

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I've been playing my Izumo a bit more recently and I'm actually liking it quite a bit except for the economy part. 

It can be pretty difficult to keep the credits as a net positive. 

How much worse is tier X? If it's much worse than this I may just not bother. Think I'd be pretty happy just picking up the Izumo permacamo and sitting at IX. 

 

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5 minutes ago, Poharan said:

I've been playing my Izumo a bit more recently and I'm actually liking it quite a bit except for the economy part. 

It can be pretty difficult to keep the credits as a net positive. 

How much worse is tier X? If it's much worse than this I may just not bother. Think I'd be pretty happy just picking up the Izumo permacamo and sitting at IX. 

 

IF you have the perma camo T10 earns great in Co-op (well for Co-op that is). That -50% to the service fee as well as +20% credits is a huge help.  You can easily make100-150K net profit and with credit boosting flags I have had games that were up in the 600-700K range (net 500K+).

T9 is hands down the worst tier (tech tree ships) economy wise. Massive service fee and the perma doesn't do much (-20% service fee and no credit bonus).

 

Edited by AdmiralThunder
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8 minutes ago, Poharan said:

I've been playing my Izumo a bit more recently and I'm actually liking it quite a bit except for the economy part. 

It can be pretty difficult to keep the credits as a net positive. 

How much worse is tier X? If it's much worse than this I may just not bother. Think I'd be pretty happy just picking up the Izumo permacamo and sitting at IX. 

 

The tier 9 permacamo is a waste, it won't help you get positive.

But then, I wouldn't pay $25 for a camo just so I can afford to play at tier ten either....:Smile_teethhappy:

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@Poharan Without using some or all premium xp/credit boost/cost reduction items on tier 10 ships along with playing well in co op the economy is dismal. It was much worse until service cost were reduced.

If you find yourself losing credits consistently play lower tiers to build up your credit balance.

 

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Credits is an issue for me as well. I depleted mine down to 5 mill when I was doing the "knock the snowflake off" campaign. I had a number of ships that were not equipped with upgrades. I chose to upgrade them but it had an obvious effect on my Credits stash. Besides the Missouri, what are the best ships (non-cv) to earn credits in Co-op?

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Like @AdmiralThunder said, it’s reasonably possible to make money in T9-10 Co-op.

The main thing is ‘don’t suck;’ but the camos, signals, and premium time certainly help.

For me personally, any game where I make 1 credit more than expenses means I haven’t lost credits, and is fine. Of course I prefer to, and usually do, do better.

2 hours ago, awiggin said:

The tier 9 permacamo is a waste, it won't help you get positive.

As a singular example, loosing credits in my Musashi is extremely rare. 

1 hour ago, CAPTMUDDXX said:

@Poharan Without using some or all premium xp/credit boost/cost reduction items on tier 10 ships along with playing well in co op the economy is dismal. It was much worse until service cost were reduced.

If you find yourself losing credits consistently play lower tiers to build up your credit balance.

True dat’.

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2 hours ago, Poharan said:

I've been playing my Izumo a bit more recently and I'm actually liking it quite a bit except for the economy part. 

It can be pretty difficult to keep the credits as a net positive. 

How much worse is tier X? If it's much worse than this I may just not bother. Think I'd be pretty happy just picking up the Izumo permacamo and sitting at IX.

T10 ships with the 5,000 doubloon permacamo is economically very strong.  T10 ships also perform better than their T9 counterparts, so you'll make more coin.

T10 ships without the permacamo are economically harsh. 

T9 ships with the 4,000 doubloon permacamo is economically poor.  You'll make money, but not a lot.  T9 premium ships though are bangin'.

I'd rate T10 + Permacamo = T8 Premium in terms of economy.

Edited by Ranari
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30 minutes ago, Estimated_Prophet said:

As a singular example, loosing credits in my Musashi is extremely rare. 

True dat’.

A tech tree permacamo does not render a ship into a premium....

Edited by awiggin

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1 hour ago, awiggin said:

A tech tree permacamo does not render a ship into a premium....

...and I don’t tend to loose credits in Co-op in Buffalo or Montana, and I don’t have the perma camo for either. Usually just use whatever I feel like; though usually not anything lower than a Type 5.

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4 hours ago, AdmiralThunder said:

IF you have the perma camo T10 earns great in Co-op (well for Co-op that is). That -50% to the service fee as well as +20% credits is a huge help.  You can easily make100-150K net profit and with credit boosting flags I have had games that were up in the 600-700K range (net 500K+).

T9 is hands down the worst tier (tech tree ships) economy wise. Massive service fee and the perma doesn't do much (-20% service fee and no credit bonus).

Yeah tier 9 is just obnoxious. There really is nothing there I like to play and only use Missouri to farm credits as needed. I routinely free xp past tier 9 because of the brutal economy and the punishing grind. It really isn't worth it especially in PvE IMHO. 

Tier 10 without the permanent camouflage is just as expensive to play and seems pointless except to farm rewards or to use in special events that require a tier 10 ship. The only one I play routinely in PvE is the Salem and it never loses credits even if I go full potato. Since I have no interest in the Legendary Modules, tier 10 is just something I tend to ignore. The only reason I want the ships is to farm the annual rewards of owning them. Otherwise they sit in port with no modules, no perm camo, and most have a 3 point captain assigned. My tier 9s sit in port in much the same manner save my MO. 

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Join a clan.That can give you up to 15% off service cost. 

Plus more coal and fxp to get some premium ships faster so you can make more credits.

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4 hours ago, awiggin said:

The tier 9 permacamo is a waste, it won't help you get positive.

Izumo's type 19 permacamo includes 20% reduction in service cost.  With a 90,000 credit service fee, the resulting savings would be 18,000 credits/battle.  If OP plays 100 games in Izumo to unlock Yamato, that would total 1.8 million credits.

 

 

4 hours ago, awiggin said:

But then, I wouldn't pay $25 for a camo just so I can afford to play at tier ten either....:Smile_teethhappy:

5,000 doubloons for type 20 camo cost $23.56 in the shop.  However, taking advantage of various sales can reduce that significantly.

The type 20 camos for my T10 ships cost me $10.96

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Salem is known as a poor man's Des Moines, because the Free To Play crowd can afford to run her in co-op at T10 without premium time (and plenty of clans run her competitively, so you are not actually seriously disadvantaged if you are not PvE-exclusive and want to have a crack at that). If you have the coal, she is your ticket to affordable high-tier play.

As others have said, T9 is the choke point, with a hideous jump in costs but without the permacamo benefits to match. Premium ships at this tier (Jean Bart, Azuma ATM; Missouri, Musashi or Kronshtadt if you got them before they were pulled) tend to do much better (and come with the permacamo and other bonuses particular to premiums), but are not to everyone's tastes or requirement, and very careful research is advised before spending coal, FXP or actual money to get them.

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  I, personally don't find the credit economy that bad at tier 10.   I do, however, own permanent camos for all of the ones I have- plus have a premium account and clan membership.  And I use the common economic flags regularly. 

  While repair costs are higher, so are the rewards.  Like others have said- I may not break the bank every match, but if I earn more than I pay out...

  There is something to be said for keeping a bunch of ships you enjoy playing- and are decent in- around.   Rather than powergrinding your way up lines as fast as possible,  take time off to play these ships just for fun.   If you aren't spending credits all the time,  it just keeps adding up.    Days off- or even weeks- where I just knock first win bonuses off all of my favorites- or whatever I feel like playing that day- definitely help.    As does taking time off from grinding ships/ modules  to work on levelling up captains.   The key is to just play and not spend, lol.    Currently, I have 4 or 5 ships researched but not purchased simply because I don't want to spread myself out even further, and don't feel like spending all the $$$, lol.  (Mogami; Worcester; Gadja Madah; Nagato)

  After a massive ship buying spree- and equipping all of them- my coffers were in tatters.  Yesterday,  I topped 120 million again.

  High tier premiums are money makers.  Maybe not all on the level of Missouri,  but they DO make more on average than the tech tree ships.   AND this includes freemiums, like Salem;  Alaska; Jean Bart; Musashi, etc.

  Tier 9 wasn't too bad, either- BUT:   The ships I played through were ones I liked, and did reasonably well in.   Alsace; Buffalo; Iowa.    Seattle was different- that heap gave me the exact experience many have posted here:   No fun to play, and it cost me credits more often or not.  I ended up saying screw it and using free xp to research Worcester...   I'm also grinding Roon on and off.   Not bad, but the odd turret arrangement really throws me off sometimes, and it's not exactly the best fit for the current meta.   It's not the credit losing, pounding my head on my keyboard experience Saettle was, though.

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8 hours ago, Fletcher7_1944 said:

  High tier premiums are money makers.  Maybe not all on the level of Missouri,  but they DO make more on average than the tech tree ships.   AND this includes freemiums, like Salem;  Alaska; Jean Bart; Musashi, etc.

  Tier 9 wasn't too bad, either- BUT:   The ships I played through were ones I liked, and did reasonably well in.   Alsace; Buffalo; Iowa.    Seattle was different- that heap gave me the exact experience many have posted here:   No fun to play, and it cost me credits more often or not.  I ended up saying screw it and using free xp to research Worcester...   I'm also grinding Roon on and off.   Not bad, but the odd turret arrangement really throws me off sometimes, and it's not exactly the best fit for the current meta.   It's not the credit losing, pounding my head on my keyboard experience Saettle was, though.

I agree.  My tier 9 premiums earn quite well.  Musashi earns nearly as well as Mizzou for me.  Maybe I'm doing it wrong.  :Smile_sceptic:

I have occasionally lost money on Frederick the Great and Seattle.  I have permacamos for both and use all the standard economic flags too.  Add in my premium account and I can at least keep my head above water with those two.  I can't imagine the credit hemorrhage if I didn't run them like that.  Tier 10 without permacamos?  Fogedaboutit.  (Forget about it with a goombah accent.)

Salem is the only tier 10 ship that I have.  She never disappoints, cash positive every time.  Of course, she came with permacamo and has improved earnings potential, too.

My best earner would have to be Warspite because I run her in the tier 6 ops.  If I find that I ever need to lay my hands on a cool million, I just throw credit earning flags on her and off we go.  :Smile_trollface:  

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T9 premiums do well.  Silver ships, not so much.  Even with perma camo and premium time, you have to run some econ flags or you'll lose credits (barring a monster game).  I tend to get perma camo for any ship I intend to keep.  Still, I HATE the economy of T9 silver ships.  Grinding through the Buffalo chip was painful to say the least.  Fortunately, when I was doing so they had that special T9-T10 battle mode going on.  You could make decent credits in that and it helped the grind.  Wish it was still going on so I could grind past Seattle.  Still don't have the range upgrade and it's just downright painful.  

T10 with perma camo is far better.  And the Salem has a camo that give you real low operating cost.  Someone said it made it about the same as T7 cost.  But you get T10 earnings.  

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For me, the one exception to the bad economy for T9 is the Fletcher. Granted I have permacamo and Premium time. I almost always use the common economy flags. With that setup, I make good points and credits on the Fletcher. The nice thing about the Fletcher is the US DD smoke. I've learned to smoke up as soon as the first red Bot is within 6ish range (best if 6.9 but I'm not always that fast). The Bots usually drive right up to me so I can pepper them with HE the whole time. When I get detected,  torp time. I get great scores that way. The times it doesn't work is when I forget to take a look at the mini-map and right after I sink a ship in front of me, here comes the cruiser I didn't see. So Fletcher earns good credits for me.

I have enough xp now to get the Gearing but don't have enough credits since I am rebuilding from a low of 4 mill plus recently bought the Mogami. I'm just having to spread out my silver ship purchases now way more than I use to.

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7 hours ago, n5bar said:

For me, the one exception to the bad economy for T9 is the Fletcher. Granted I have permacamo and Premium time. I almost always use the common economy flags. With that setup, I make good points and credits on the Fletcher. The nice thing about the Fletcher is the US DD smoke. I've learned to smoke up as soon as the first red Bot is within 6ish range (best if 6.9 but I'm not always that fast). The Bots usually drive right up to me so I can pepper them with HE the whole time. When I get detected,  torp time. I get great scores that way. The times it doesn't work is when I forget to take a look at the mini-map and right after I sink a ship in front of me, here comes the cruiser I didn't see. So Fletcher earns good credits for me.

I have enough xp now to get the Gearing but don't have enough credits since I am rebuilding from a low of 4 mill plus recently bought the Mogami. I'm just having to spread out my silver ship purchases now way more than I use to.

  Yeah- no doubt about it, when you hit the upper tiers buying and equipping new ships like candy is a HELL of a lot more expensive...

  I think you hit the nail on the head regarding the tier 9's.  If YOU like a ship, and can figure out how to get the most out of it, then the credits come rolling in.   If it's just a ship to be gotten through- or if you dislike it, then it;s going to be a long expensive grind.

  I made a LOT of credits playing Buffalo, because I LOVE US CA's and used it's 12 rifles of doom to their best effect.   Sure, sometimes I got squashed like a bug- but I learned from playing the previous ships how to US CA in pve games.   It's all about putting yourself in the right position to hammer on distracted foes.   It helped that it was pre-rework, and the bot CV's often insisted on having a go at it.  Darn Buffalo had SICK AA, and earned me a lot of extra with it, lol.    I often had to scratch my head in incomprehension reading angry diatribes about how much someone hated Buffalo- it was a hell of a fun ship to play, and a monster in the right hands...

  Then again, others have favorite ships that I can't stand to play, so...

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I've been spamming the fool out of Co-op Salem and I don't believe I've lost money yet, even when I do the occasional stupid.  I have permacamos on 3 of my T9s (Buffalo, Alsace, JB), but not on Seattle.  I have lost money on Seattle, but don't play her often.  The others are fine.

You don't make a lot, but you pay your bills, plus a little extra.

Scenarios, OTOH, you rake in the loot with a good team.

 

Edited by iDuckman

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15 hours ago, n5bar said:

For me, the one exception to the bad economy for T9 is the Fletcher. 

You can do the same with:

Udaloy: smoke early, better long range guns more torps

Z46: hydro!!! but weaker smoke,torps, he shell, but super ap faster reload torps( if you can launch more then two salvo in coop:Smile_trollface:)

I did not get tier 9 Japanese and English.

Quite never you lose money in tier 9 DD, I have perma camo and premium time but never use signals

 

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