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uhg.. cv's. part2

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1 example from a game in a BB without great AA. This example isn't uncommon, even if circumstantially unfortunate. However, It's a great example of why playing against CVs feels 'helpless'

T8, top tier, 2 cv's per side.

I start on far western flank, 1 dd 1 bb in accompaniment, rest of the 'team' is much closer to mid and east.

Game starts, both bb's head mid-> east. DD goes cap and dies, predictably. While on the way, slowly chugging toward my 'teammates' both  CVs make a beeline directly for us two unfortunate BB desperately heading toward additional AA cover. I didn't make it. Both were able to double drop rockets and torps, go back, get another set of planes, hit me again, double drops again.

Some bb's appear on the edge of my view range, of course, they can see me well before I can see them, so im facing incoming fire without recourse at first. My ship explodes as I get a second volley off at the offending BB and manage a citadel, for a grand total of 35k dmg at destruction. I was only able to shoot down 4 planes, even with reinforcement appropriately used. We lost.

The CVs lost virtually nothing. Combined for over 50k dmg between rockets, torps and flooding, and subsequent fires. 

 

Admittedly, I complained in channel, typing out my loathing for CVs as currently implemented. My 'teammates' response? "you shouldn't have been over there alone'.

what?

I started over there alone, wth was I supposed to do, teleporters don't exist yet... but, i digress.

 

The empirical evidence speaks for itself, even anecdotally... even given the sample size. CVs do not have a reasonable counter. Nowhere to hide, no clever juking, angling, or outplay potential, I had no options outside fortunate RNG or not clicking into battle again. I sat and watched my boat sink, planes ticking the ships life away 2, 3, 4k at a time, fires and flooding all the while... and could do nothing about it. Both CVs full health, planes with few new chipped paint spots and my ship sunk.

 

There is absolutely NOTHING fun about that experience. There was NO challenge. There was NO strategy. There was NO skillful execution on their part.. I didn't get outplayed by a superiorly skilled opponent (and this does happen to me, seen it plenty and can recognize it), I just couldn't do anything about it, Their Rock doesn't give a crap about paper or scissors. the end.

I've read CV changes are coming, and while i'm not typically a 'sky is falling' kinda guy, I do feel that the current state of things regarding CVs is severely impacting my will or desire to play... I'm nobody, here or otherwise, so doesn't really matter if I play or not, right? probably, though, i suspect im not alone in my frustration that's turning into google searches for other titles to try.

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So tell me why I enjoy now and have always enjoyed playing the Ark Beta with ZERO AA(A)? 

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you are definitely not alone there. Ive gone from playing close to 15 to 20 games a day to maybe 1 or 2. There is warthunder tho Im not sure how the ships are on there but the planes and tanks are fun.

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2 minutes ago, _kumicho_ said:

I start on far western flank, 1 dd 1 bb in accompaniment, rest of the 'team' is much closer to mid and east.

As someone play lots of CV games, I stop here. 

Other than you have two brand new CV player in red team. I'll not expected this end well with TWO CV in the game. This is work as intended, even a KIDD plus a MASS won't change the outcome. 

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i have no idea what that ship is, but, I enjoy my kagaro too, dont even take smoke, do just fine... but there are exceptions to every rule, if we're going to justify with corner cases, all of it's moot.

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30 minutes ago, _kumicho_ said:

1 example from a game in a BB without great AA. This example isn't uncommon, even if circumstantially unfortunate. However, It's a great example of why playing against CVs feels 'helpless'

T8, top tier, 2 cv's per side.

I start on far western flank, 1 dd 1 bb in accompaniment, rest of the 'team' is much closer to mid and east.

Game starts, both bb's head mid-> east. DD goes cap and dies, predictably. While on the way, slowly chugging toward my 'teammates' both  CVs make a beeline directly for us two unfortunate BB desperately heading toward additional AA cover. I didn't make it. Both were able to double drop rockets and torps, go back, get another set of planes, hit me again, double drops again.

Some bb's appear on the edge of my view range, of course, they can see me well before I can see them, so im facing incoming fire without recourse at first. My ship explodes as I get a second volley off at the offending BB and manage a citadel, for a grand total of 35k dmg at destruction. I was only able to shoot down 4 planes, even with reinforcement appropriately used. We lost.

The CVs lost virtually nothing. Combined for over 50k dmg between rockets, torps and flooding, and subsequent fires. 

 

Admittedly, I complained in channel, typing out my loathing for CVs as currently implemented. My 'teammates' response? "you shouldn't have been over there alone'.

what?

I started over there alone, wth was I supposed to do, teleporters don't exist yet... but, i digress.

 

The empirical evidence speaks for itself, even anecdotally... even given the sample size. CVs do not have a reasonable counter. Nowhere to hide, no clever juking, angling, or outplay potential, I had no options outside fortunate RNG or not clicking into battle again. I sat and watched my boat sink, planes ticking the ships life away 2, 3, 4k at a time, fires and flooding all the while... and could do nothing about it. Both CVs full health, planes with few new chipped paint spots and my ship sunk.

 

There is absolutely NOTHING fun about that experience. There was NO challenge. There was NO strategy. There was NO skillful execution on their part.. I didn't get outplayed by a superiorly skilled opponent (and this does happen to me, seen it plenty and can recognize it), I just couldn't do anything about it, Their Rock doesn't give a crap about paper or scissors. the end.

I've read CV changes are coming, and while i'm not typically a 'sky is falling' kinda guy, I do feel that the current state of things regarding CVs is severely impacting my will or desire to play... I'm nobody, here or otherwise, so doesn't really matter if I play or not, right? probably, though, i suspect im not alone in my frustration that's turning into google searches for other titles to try.

Exactly how I felt facing down a Massachusetts division in my stock Queen Elizabeth.

There really isnt any counter play in that scenario either.

This is the game WG sells...an arena for griefing...where those who have think its 'fun' and a 'good game' to easily win or farm damage.

That's not going to change with us complaining. We can either adjust our expectations or leave.

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1 minute ago, goldeagle1123 said:

No matter what people say CVs are just as aids as before, if not moreso. An incredibly broken class that can inflict massive damage at virtually no risk whatsoever. I've been saying since 2015 and will keep saying they should just be removed, there is no way to balance them. They are the reason surface naval combat, which this game is about, ceased to exist as we knew it.

I actually like CVs conceptually, I dont mind matches with 1 per team unless its a midway generally.  I like the diversity in play options it gives players, changes in game dynamics arent unreasonable.. the problem is implementation more than anything. If it 'felt' like I could 'take one with me' as I died in a blaze of glory... or had some clever skill to learn that help me survive... something. but, as it stands, far too many situations where my ships are just helplessly overmatched by a mechanic with no counter, thats it. no options. feels bad.

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I just played my one game today before CVs left too sour a taste in my mouth to keep going. 

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1 minute ago, Anonymous50 said:

Comparing CV to AIDS now?

Kindly take your stupidity back to reddit. 
 

It's almost as if the little kiddo has never heard of a turn of phrase.

Never really been one to use the wows subreddit, but you seem to be versed the arts of stupidity.

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33 minutes ago, _kumicho_ said:

The empirical evidence speaks for itself, even anecdotally... even given the sample size. CVs do not have a reasonable counter.

Well apart from the idea that empirical evidence can be anecdotal

 

Many of us continue to counter CVs in DDs or Cruisers or BBs - because, ironically, there is no empirical evidence to support your claims -only anecdotal.

 

 

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7 minutes ago, goldeagle1123 said:

CV... virtually no risk whatsoever

I just played a game in the Midway. I was sunk about half way through the battle by long-range spotter-aircraft BB fire. I was as far back as I could get but still couldn't get out of range. About five minutes later the enemy CV met the same fate. We won the game though it was hit or miss for a while. The real OP ships of the game were the Montana, Worcester, and Harugumo. 

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1 minute ago, goldeagle1123 said:

It's almost as if the little kiddo has never heard of a turn of phrase.

Never really been one to use the wows subreddit, but you seem to be versed the arts of stupidity.

Some of us lived in the 80's - people died.  I was lucky to not have any of my friends or family die of that  but I know people who did.

This is what you are comparing your game inconvenience to - a death and a family going through this.

image.thumb.png.e2aa58ba63bf1a30883f540c397e3a8f.png

 

Go take your sloth somewhere else.

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1 minute ago, Snargfargle said:

I just played a game in the Midway. I was sunk about half way through the battle by long-range spotter-aircraft BB fire. I was as far back as I could get but still couldn't get out of range. About five minutes later the enemy CV met the same fate. We won the game though it was hit or miss for a while. The real OP ships of the game were the Montana, Worcester, and Harugumo. 

Being 'far back' is not safe.

Find islands. Move away from enemy fields of fire.

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2 minutes ago, Anonymous50 said:

Well apart from the idea that empirical evidence can be anecdotal

 

Many of us continue to counter CVs in DDs or Cruisers or BBs - because, ironically, there is no empirical evidence to support your claims -only anecdotal.

 

 

empirical = based on, concerned with, or verifiable by observation or experience 

anecdotal = of an account

I would argue my point is a recount of my experience, thus potentially an anecdote but has been based on statistically supported observation and thus empirical.. but we can argue linguistics, grammar, and word usage in a new thread if you'd like.

 

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1 minute ago, _kumicho_ said:

empirical = based on, concerned with, or verifiable by observation or experience 

anecdotal = of an account

I would argue my point is a recount of my experience, thus potentially an anecdote but has been based on statistically supported observation and thus empirical.. but we can argue linguistics, grammar, and word usage in a new thread if you'd like.

 

Big words scare me

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2 minutes ago, _kumicho_ said:

empirical = based on, concerned with, or verifiable by observation or experience 

anecdotal = of an account

I would argue my point is a recount of my experience, thus potentially an anecdote but has been based on statistically supported observation and thus empirical.. but we can argue linguistics, grammar, and word usage in a new thread if you'd like.

 

Fair enough....

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5 minutes ago, goldeagle1123 said:

It's almost as if the little kiddo has never heard of a turn of phrase.

Never really been one to use the wows subreddit, but you seem to be versed the arts of stupidity.

I realize that children nowadays have their Internet sayings but having seen a family member succumb to AIDS it kind of chaps my rear to hear it used as a frivolous comparison. The same thing goes for "sky cancer." My grandpa and uncle died of cancer and my father now has cancer. There is really no comparison of a deadly disease and a minor annoyance in a video game, even hyperbolically. CVs are hardly "sky cancer" they are more like itchy armpit rash -- annoying but easily dealt with. CVs are part of the game and they are not going to be removed. If you don't like CVs in the game then go find another game to play.

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40 minutes ago, Herr_Reitz said:

So tell me why I enjoy now and have always enjoyed playing the Ark Beta with ZERO AA(A)? 

Because at tier 4 they can only throw one torp or bomb at you at a time? Come on @Herr_Reitz, you're better than that bunch of bait.

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8 minutes ago, Daniel_Allan_Clark said:

Being 'far back' is not safe.

Find islands. Move away from enemy fields of fire.

There were no islands for me to hide behind. Believe me, I would have if I could have.

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So you're in a ship without great AA and just rotten luck both red CVs know and pounced. But which ship? Save for US BBs, I can usually relocate to teammates, though admittedly if they lemming to the cap farthest from me I'm screwed.

Know it sucks, but let's face it--in a competitive game, who's gonna have some outdated honor code and skip easy kills?

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20 minutes ago, Daniel_Allan_Clark said:

Exactly how I felt facing down a Massachusetts division in my stock Queen Elizabeth.

There really isnt any counter play in that scenario either.

This is the game WG sells...an arena for griefing...where those who have think its 'fun' and a 'good game' to easily win or farm damage.

That's not going to change with us complaining. We can either adjust our expectations or leave.

So the tortuous analogy here is that all griefing is OK? 

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1 minute ago, Snargfargle said:

it kind of chaps my rear to hear it used as a frivolous comparison.

Ok Snarg, why don't you just give us a list of politically correct frivolous comparisons that won't chap your rear. That way all you precious little snowflakes can be happy sitting around your digital campfires, playing your CVs, not taking any damage, and singing Kumbaya while you hold hands. Seriuosly, if you're that unbalanced about it, what in the name of heaven above do you do whenever some TV show has an episode on about someone with aids or cancer dying? Do the networks get one of these "OH PLEASE PROTECT ME FROM THE REAL WORLD BECAUSE IT REALLY IS ALL TOO MUCH!" letters whenever some sitcom character goes to his eternal reward? You chose to play the game, you chose to get on the Forum, and you sure as hell ain't no noob so you know what both are like. Choices have consequences, grow up.

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1 minute ago, Reymu said:

So you're in a ship without great AA and just rotten luck both red CVs know and pounced. But which ship? Save for US BBs, I can usually relocate to teammates, though admittedly if they lemming to the cap farthest from me I'm screwed.

Know it sucks, but let's face it--in a competitive game, who's gonna have some outdated honor code and skip easy kills?

nobody, it wasnt the cv's fault i was poorly placed, nor mine for that matter. Thats the point, it's the perfect example of how/why playing against them 'feels' bad. Its the same thing at the end of games when its just a couple cv's and a couple ships... the ships have no chance, cv's just eat them and its watching paint dry ans the cv's duke it out.

I didnt expect them to do anything different, hell, id have done the same thing. The point is, it shouldnt have been so easy, game mechanics wise, for it to work like that. Any ship vs ship engagement, both run the risk of total loss. CV vs 'most' any ship (there are super aa ships this doesnt apply to, obviously)... isnt so balanced and thus feels bad.

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@_kumicho_ You chose to play a tier 8 battle knowing good and well the probability that at least 1 tier 6 or 8 or more CV(s) or even a tier 10 CV would be included on both teams.

You have nothing to complain about.

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1 minute ago, Umikami said:

Ok Snarg, why don't you just give us a list of politically correct frivolous comparisons that won't chap your rear. That way all you precious little snowflakes can be happy sitting around your digital campfires, playing your CVs, not taking any damage, and singing Kumbaya while you hold hands. Seriuosly, if you're that unbalanced about it, what in the name of heaven above do you do whenever some TV show has an episode on about someone with aids or cancer dying? Do the networks get one of these "OH PLEASE PROTECT ME FROM THE REAL WORLD BECAUSE IT REALLY IS ALL TOO MUCH!" letters whenever some sitcom character goes to his eternal reward? You chose to play the game, you chose to get on the Forum, and you sure as hell ain't no noob so you know what both are like. Choices have consequences, grow up.

"Precious little snowflake"? LOL, have you seen my avatar? That's me. I hardly need protecting; I was one of the protectors.

That said, a lot of people really need to think a bit before they speak.

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