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Mister_Tanman

My CV complaint - and why I have almost stopped playing

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@Mister_Tanman A good CV player in the previous CV system rarely ran out of planes either unless they did something stupid or were up against a team with very good players with strong AA or a better CV player.

This garbage rework is no different in that aspect. A CV player may not run out of planes but if they are foolish and/or the opponents very smart with strong AA they will quickly be so low on planes as to be useless.

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3 minutes ago, CAPTMUDDXX said:

@Mister_Tanman A good CV player in the previous CV system rarely ran out of planes either unless they did something stupid or were up against a team with very good players with strong AA or a better CV player.

This garbage rework is no different in that aspect. A CV player may not run out of planes but if they are foolish and/or the opponents very smart with strong AA they will quickly be so low on planes as to be useless.

On the previous system, they did not get multiple passes. You now get perma spotted for the time it takes for three passes. If the planes don;t get you, that is more than enough time for someone else to shot you. 

Remember, I am only commenting about the end game. There is really nothing a DD can do.

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My two favorite classes of ships to play are CV and DD. If the CV is to truly run out of planes, which semi sort of can happen if forced into a strong AA suite match and their team is unable to soften up some of the red fleet. The repair and service time, especially in T10 is a virtual deplaning. Then wouldn't it be fair to say the non CV ships could run out of ammo?

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14 minutes ago, Mister_Tanman said:

On the previous system, they did not get multiple passes. You now get perma spotted for the time it takes for three passes. If the planes don;t get you, that is more than enough time for someone else to shot you. 

Remember, I am only commenting about the end game. There is really nothing a DD can do.

Instead, they had multiple squads capable of scouting multiple areas of the map simultaneously, ability to mount undodgeable simultaneous cross drop attacks, and ship-deleting alpha strikes. Everyone seems to forget how much harder it was to play against competent high-tier CVs under RTS simply because you see so many more CV matches nowadays.

In regards to your particular game, what was your CV doing at the time the red CV was cleaning up?

Edited by Nevermore135
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@Mister_Tanman in the previous system they could attack with bombs and torpedoes almost simultaneously or torpedoes from 2 directions. They could also use fighters to keep the enemy perma spotted. They could also easily sink any lone ship of any type at any time.

 

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56 minutes ago, Mister_Tanman said:

This is not normal rage post. I have been thinking about it for a month or so. I'm a DD player  I was getting really frustrated with the game. The CV reworked forced me to completely change the way I played. The game had become very frustrating and I stopped playing for several weeks. When I came back, I started playing BBs a bit. And that is when it happened. I finally figured out why the CV rework is so frustrating to me, and I suspected many many others. But it took incident in a BB for me to figure it out.

I was playing my Bismark. It was late in the match and only about 5 ships left on each team. I had 80% of my hp left and I found myself headed to head with a Cleveland and another BB. I angled correctly, aimed correctly, used my damage repair at the right time. And low and behold!!! I sunk them both!! My BB was pretty beat up,  but I dived into the scrum and come out of top . I was feeling really good about myself... Oh.. wait.. here comes the dive bombers from the CV that has been hiding in the back all game. Two quick passes and I am dead. Like vultures on a dead carcass. 

And there it is. My issue with the CV rework is that it completely screwed up the last 1/3 of each match.

Now let's look at DDs. Every CV player likes to troll and say "Just stop rushing in. Just stay grouped up." Yeah ok, that works in the beginning. But what about the end game. Only 4 boats left on each team. A DD can't can't stay close to another teammate. It has to scout, it has to cap. But the pretty much unlimited planes and prema spotting of the new CVs makes the end game frustrating. As a DD you can't shoot the planes down. You are most likely out of consumables or on cool down. And you are most likely low on HP. So send in the stupid rocket planes to end what up to that point was good game. 

 

The only way I can see to fix this is actually put a limit on the number of planes. Yes, I know there is a "cool down" but let's get real, they never really run out.

Ok, now the CV players can troll...  But I really think I am on to something...

 

Well Said Sir! Thumbs Up to you! Had 3 CV's in a game this morning. Always spotted and near end of game Dozens of Planes flying around and all of us Burned to death. Otherwise we kicked other teams butt. So the CV's by themselves changed the outcome.

Edited by bobby_scott05
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1 hour ago, Mister_Tanman said:

This is not normal rage post. I have been thinking about it for a month or so. I'm a DD player  I was getting really frustrated with the game. The CV reworked forced me to completely change the way I played. The game had become very frustrating and I stopped playing for several weeks. When I came back, I started playing BBs a bit. And that is when it happened. I finally figured out why the CV rework is so frustrating to me, and I suspected many many others. But it took incident in a BB for me to figure it out.

I was playing my Bismark. It was late in the match and only about 5 ships left on each team. I had 80% of my hp left and I found myself headed to head with a Cleveland and another BB. I angled correctly, aimed correctly, used my damage repair at the right time. And low and behold!!! I sunk them both!! My BB was pretty beat up,  but I dived into the scrum and come out of top . I was feeling really good about myself... Oh.. wait.. here comes the dive bombers from the CV that has been hiding in the back all game. Two quick passes and I am dead. Like vultures on a dead carcass. 

And there it is. My issue with the CV rework is that it completely screwed up the last 1/3 of each match.

Now let's look at DDs. Every CV player likes to troll and say "Just stop rushing in. Just stay grouped up." Yeah ok, that works in the beginning. But what about the end game. Only 4 boats left on each team. A DD can't can't stay close to another teammate. It has to scout, it has to cap. But the pretty much unlimited planes and prema spotting of the new CVs makes the end game frustrating. As a DD you can't shoot the planes down. You are most likely out of consumables or on cool down. And you are most likely low on HP. So send in the stupid rocket planes to end what up to that point was good game. 

 

The only way I can see to fix this is actually put a limit on the number of planes. Yes, I know there is a "cool down" but let's get real, they never really run out.

Ok, now the CV players can troll...  But I really think I am on to something...

 

And here we go again.  I'm guessing there are a lot of people here who just like to whine and complain.

Image result for will it ever end gif

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2 hours ago, Mister_Tanman said:

And low and behold!!! I sunk them both!! My BB was pretty beat up,  but I dived into the scrum and come out of top . I was feeling really good about myself... Oh.. wait.. here comes the dive bombers from the CV that has been hiding in the back all game. Two quick passes and I am dead. Like vultures on a dead carcass. 

Well, I've been in that situation many many times...with one difference.  It wasn't the CV that finished me.  It was a DD...or a CA...or another BB.  Being deleted by a player otherwise outside of a wild scrub one has just won is nothing new, especially in a BB.  Doubly so when playing a KM brawler.  This time you got finished by a CV.  Removing or changing CVs won't change the overall dynamic of this situation.    

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23 minutes ago, Raven_Floki said:

And here we go again.  I'm guessing there are a lot of people here who just like to whine and complain.

No, there are a lot of people here that didn't sign up for World of Planes at Sea.....  We are not confused.  If WG gave us a "direct counter" to Carriers, we woiuldn't be having this discussion.  Give us AA radar on designed AA picket ships and then, late game, let's see who is whining........!!!  Because, should WG do that, we're hunting Aircraft first and then sinking your carrier.....period.  A fair fight then.........  Imagine an Akizuki or her sisters that can see you well before you can see us....  And, as radar is, we all see your planes and everyone gets a +15% because we now have your range and azimuth.....  Then, you get to meet my "Leetle DD Friend"; an AA DD picket ship that has DFAA built in; CPT's spec'd for AA; and then, the flags add up to an AA value just below 100 (say 98%) and every ship in the active radar zone gets a 15% damage boost while the AA Radar is on !!!!.  Add a sister ship or a CL with AA radar and...........well, "game over man"...... 

That is what this game needs is a hard counter to an OP system;....especially, since carriers can't directly fight carrier for air superiority !!!   Kind of like RADAR defeats Smoke for DD's"....  AA Picket ships can aim at squadrons and has the fire power to accompany tactical formations so the ships can fight other ships vis-a'-vis endless planes late game.....  Then let's get back to ships having the ability to tactically organize and "play this naval arcarde game....."  

Enough, is enough.....

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2 hours ago, Mister_Tanman said:

On the previous system, they did not get multiple passes. You now get perma spotted for the time it takes for three passes. If the planes don;t get you, that is more than enough time for someone else to shot you. 

Remember, I am only commenting about the end game. There is really nothing a DD can do.

Do you realize how dumb this sounds?  If you're only spotted for the time that it takes to execute 3 passes, then it's NOT "perma spotting"!!!  It's what? Maybe a minute?  (I don't know.  I play CVs, but it's not like I check the clock to see how long 3 attack runs take.)

 

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Just now, Asym_KS said:

No, there are a lot of people here that didn't sign up for World of Planes at Sea.....  We are not confused.  If WG gave us a "direct counter" to Carriers, we woiuldn't be having this discussion.  Give us AA radar on designed AA picket ships and then, late game, let's see who is whining........!!!  Because, should WG do that, we're hunting Aircraft first and then sinking your carrier.....period.  A fair fight then.........  Imagine an Akizuki or her sisters that can see you well before you can see us....  And, as radar is, we all see your planes and everyone gets a +15% because we now have your range and azimuth.....  Then, you get to meet my "Leetle DD Friend"; an AA DD picket ship that has DFAA built in; CPT's spec'd for AA; and then, the flags add up to an AA value just below 100 (say 98%) and every ship in the active radar zone gets a 15% damage boost while the AA Radar is on !!!!.  Add a sister ship or a CL with AA radar and...........well, "game over man"...... 

That is what this game needs is a hard counter to an OP system;....especially, since carriers can't directly fight carrier for air superiority !!!   Kind of like RADAR defeats Smoke for DD's"....  AA Picket ships can aim at squadrons and has the fire power to accompany tactical formations so the ships can fight other ships vis-a'-vis endless planes late game.....  Then let's get back to ships having the ability to tactically organize and "play this naval arcarde game....."  

Enough, is enough.....

Yes, in point of fact, they did, Asym.  They KNEW that carriers were part of the game.  That means that they DID KNOW that they were signing up for a game with carriers and carrier planes in it. 

You're not a dumb guy, Asym.  So you should damned well know this for a fact!!!

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19 minutes ago, Soshi_Sone said:

Well, I've been in that situation many many times...with one difference.  It wasn't the CV that finished me.  It was a DD...or a CA...or another BB.  Being deleted by a player otherwise outside of a wild scrub one has just won is nothing new, especially in a BB.  Doubly so when playing a KM brawler.  This time you got finished by a CV.  Removing or changing CVs won't change the overall dynamic of this situation.    

Exactly, Soshi.  I was thinking the same thing.    A player in the OP's situation wins a 1v2 duel only to die to a third enemy that shows up after the mini-duel.  It does NOT matter whether it's a CV or a BB, CA, or DD.  The end result is exactly the same.  This is just the same old anti-CV whining.

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45 minutes ago, Raven_Floki said:

And here we go again.  I'm guessing there are a lot of people here who just like to whine and complain.

Image result for will it ever end gif

 Gotta keep the fire going

tenor (3).gif

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I just stopped playing today after having another bad CV experience. It just isn't fun to be a helpless bot in the minigame the carriers are playing.

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3 minutes ago, Crucis said:

Yes, in point of fact, they did, Asym.  They KNEW that carriers were part of the game.  That means that they DID KNOW that they were signing up for a game with carriers and carrier planes in it. 

You're not a dumb guy, Asym.  So you should damned well know this for a fact!!!

In many respects you are correct and I don't deny that.  But, you are mixing apples and oranges and it doesn't work today.  Carriers before were a rare ship to see.......  Deadly, but rare and planes and carrier functioned "differently"....  They were a pain but, not a meta/OP nightmare that is driving players off..........  And, a carrier(s) last year did not change the entire game itself just by showing up....  They do now....  You know this and are smart enough to know the difference.....

What I did not expect, was a one sided affair that was "intentionally created" to generate money no matter the damage it does....  A reasonable expectation of all of the players is quality behaviors: not that.....  Not, a meta nightmare that has driven off a few of our close friends; and, has started discussions as to where the rest of us are thinking about going en masse.  It's that serious.  Division 2 or PUBG seem to be the front runners....

Again, smart....I guess.  I am smart enough to know; the writing is on the wall;.........since, history will repeat itself as this game evolves into WoTs' revenue generating paradigm and game play changes towards a kiddie arcade shooter part II.....  And that, we left, and uninstalled from years ago..... 

we'll see.......and we hope our host doesn't go down that dark path......again.

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2 hours ago, Mister_Tanman said:

This is not normal rage post. I have been thinking about it for a month or so. I'm a DD player  I was getting really frustrated with the game. The CV reworked forced me to completely change the way I played. The game had become very frustrating and I stopped playing for several weeks. When I came back, I started playing BBs a bit. And that is when it happened. I finally figured out why the CV rework is so frustrating to me, and I suspected many many others. But it took incident in a BB for me to figure it out.

I was playing my Bismark. It was late in the match and only about 5 ships left on each team. I had 80% of my hp left and I found myself headed to head with a Cleveland and another BB. I angled correctly, aimed correctly, used my damage repair at the right time. And low and behold!!! I sunk them both!! My BB was pretty beat up,  but I dived into the scrum and come out of top . I was feeling really good about myself... Oh.. wait.. here comes the dive bombers from the CV that has been hiding in the back all game. Two quick passes and I am dead. Like vultures on a dead carcass. 

And there it is. My issue with the CV rework is that it completely screwed up the last 1/3 of each match.

Now let's look at DDs. Every CV player likes to troll and say "Just stop rushing in. Just stay grouped up." Yeah ok, that works in the beginning. But what about the end game. Only 4 boats left on each team. A DD can't can't stay close to another teammate. It has to scout, it has to cap. But the pretty much unlimited planes and prema spotting of the new CVs makes the end game frustrating. As a DD you can't shoot the planes down. You are most likely out of consumables or on cool down. And you are most likely low on HP. So send in the stupid rocket planes to end what up to that point was good game. 

 

The only way I can see to fix this is actually put a limit on the number of planes. Yes, I know there is a "cool down" but let's get real, they never really run out.

Ok, now the CV players can troll...  But I really think I am on to something...

 

Let's say WG removed the cap on your BB's heal (making it strictly cool down based, like DCP), but made the cool down 5 minutes. Unlimited heals, right? You can never run out!

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2 hours ago, Mister_Tanman said:

This is not normal rage post. I have been thinking about it for a month or so. I'm a DD player  I was getting really frustrated with the game. The CV reworked forced me to completely change the way I played. The game had become very frustrating and I stopped playing for several weeks. When I came back, I started playing BBs a bit. And that is when it happened. I finally figured out why the CV rework is so frustrating to me, and I suspected many many others. But it took incident in a BB for me to figure it out.

I was playing my Bismark. It was late in the match and only about 5 ships left on each team. I had 80% of my hp left and I found myself headed to head with a Cleveland and another BB. I angled correctly, aimed correctly, used my damage repair at the right time. And low and behold!!! I sunk them both!! My BB was pretty beat up,  but I dived into the scrum and come out of top . I was feeling really good about myself... Oh.. wait.. here comes the dive bombers from the CV that has been hiding in the back all game. Two quick passes and I am dead. Like vultures on a dead carcass. 

And there it is. My issue with the CV rework is that it completely screwed up the last 1/3 of each match.

Now let's look at DDs. Every CV player likes to troll and say "Just stop rushing in. Just stay grouped up." Yeah ok, that works in the beginning. But what about the end game. Only 4 boats left on each team. A DD can't can't stay close to another teammate. It has to scout, it has to cap. But the pretty much unlimited planes and prema spotting of the new CVs makes the end game frustrating. As a DD you can't shoot the planes down. You are most likely out of consumables or on cool down. And you are most likely low on HP. So send in the stupid rocket planes to end what up to that point was good game. 

 

The only way I can see to fix this is actually put a limit on the number of planes. Yes, I know there is a "cool down" but let's get real, they never really run out.

Ok, now the CV players can troll...  But I really think I am on to something...

 

The CV waited until your 1v2 left your AA weaker before pouncing, it sounds like.

Just good tactics. You just got caught with your pants down.

Also, number of planes is limited by the 20-min match timer (often shorter, my exp is 90%+ usually over within 15min) and the plane respawn rate. It doesn't kick in for the plane type until send out the squadron, so it's not like my fighters and TB and DB immediately begin regenerating all at once. It's just easy for any CV to learn to manage his sorties so the deplaning doesn't happen--which is fair considering nobody wants his BB/CR/DD to lose MB or torp tubes.

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1 hour ago, Raven_Floki said:

And here we go again.  I'm guessing there are a lot of people here who just like to whine and complain.

Image result for will it ever end gif

No, I thought about it for awhile and just wanted to put my two cents in.  Please see the last line of my post....

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Ok, I think everyone is missing my point. 

I am saying the CV rework has a much larger impact on end of game for a DD. DDs can not group up, hide etc at the end of the game .They just become target practice for the CVs. And no, this did not happen with the old way. Planes got one shot and than had to reload. They did not get THREE passes like they do now.

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2 minutes ago, Asym_KS said:

In many respects you are correct and I don't deny that.  But, you are mixing apples and oranges and it doesn't work today.  Carriers before were a rare ship to see.......  Deadly, but rare and planes and carrier functioned "differently"....  They were a pain but, not a meta/OP nightmare that is driving players off..........  And, a carrier(s) last year did not change the entire game itself just by showing up....  They do now....  You know this and are smart enough to know the difference.....

What I did not expect, was a one sided affair that was "intentionally created" to generate money no matter the damage it does....  A reasonable expectation of all of the players is quality behaviors: not that.....  Not, a meta nightmare that has driven off a few of our close friends; and, has started discussions as to where the rest of us are thinking about going en masse.  It's that serious.  Division 2 or PUBG seem to be the front runners....

Again, smart....I guess.  I am smart enough to know; the writing is on the wall;.........since, history will repeat itself as this game evolves into WoTs' revenue generating paradigm and game play changes towards a kiddie arcade shooter part II.....  And that, we left, and uninstalled from years ago..... 

we'll see.......and we hope our host doesn't go down that dark path......again.

They weren't that rare in Beta and after the official release.  Furthermore, it was one of WGs primary goals of the rework to increase the number of CV players.  None of this was a secret.

 

 

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3 hours ago, Mister_Tanman said:

This is not normal rage post. I have been thinking about it for a month or so. I'm a DD player  I was getting really frustrated with the game. The CV reworked forced me to completely change the way I played. The game had become very frustrating and I stopped playing for several weeks. When I came back, I started playing BBs a bit. And that is when it happened. I finally figured out why the CV rework is so frustrating to me, and I suspected many many others. But it took incident in a BB for me to figure it out.

I was playing my Bismark. It was late in the match and only about 5 ships left on each team. I had 80% of my hp left and I found myself headed to head with a Cleveland and another BB. I angled correctly, aimed correctly, used my damage repair at the right time. And low and behold!!! I sunk them both!! My BB was pretty beat up,  but I dived into the scrum and come out of top . I was feeling really good about myself... Oh.. wait.. here comes the dive bombers from the CV that has been hiding in the back all game. Two quick passes and I am dead. Like vultures on a dead carcass. 

And there it is. My issue with the CV rework is that it completely screwed up the last 1/3 of each match.

Now let's look at DDs. Every CV player likes to troll and say "Just stop rushing in. Just stay grouped up." Yeah ok, that works in the beginning. But what about the end game. Only 4 boats left on each team. A DD can't can't stay close to another teammate. It has to scout, it has to cap. But the pretty much unlimited planes and prema spotting of the new CVs makes the end game frustrating. As a DD you can't shoot the planes down. You are most likely out of consumables or on cool down. And you are most likely low on HP. So send in the stupid rocket planes to end what up to that point was good game. 

 

The only way I can see to fix this is actually put a limit on the number of planes. Yes, I know there is a "cool down" but let's get real, they never really run out.

Ok, now the CV players can troll...  But I really think I am on to something...

 

Sounds like you have a problem with a specific USN CV. Stop being dramatic by saying its all CVs.

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2 minutes ago, Mister_Tanman said:

Ok, I think everyone is missing my point. 

I am saying the CV rework has a much larger impact on end of game for a DD. DDs can not group up, hide etc at the end of the game .They just become target practice for the CVs. And no, this did not happen with the old way. Planes got one shot and than had to reload. They did not get THREE passes like they do now.

Sorry, but you're wrong.  CVs were even stronger before the rework, even in the endgame.  And they didn't need 3 passes, because they could use all of their weapons in a single pass.

 

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Just too many planes late game match I was just in the CV came after again and again never ran out over even bothered to slow down. I was in a Mass he was some tier 8 CV.  My AA wasn't bad I shot down 27 planes but it didn't matter, bomber , then torps , then rockets byt he time tow flights where done what ever I managed to beat up regenerated. Now truth be told why out idiot CV didn't assist me with a fighter consumable I haven't a clue. The skill gap in CV is very great, clan battles is going to me a mess.

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4 minutes ago, Mister_Tanman said:

Ok, I think everyone is missing my point. 

I am saying the CV rework has a much larger impact on end of game for a DD. DDs can not group up, hide etc at the end of the game .They just become target practice for the CVs. And no, this did not happen with the old way. Planes got one shot and than had to reload. They did not get THREE passes like they do now.

Folks with a brain understand your point. They (cv's)just keep chipping or smashing away damage completely negating the remaining players great play as there is nothing they can do to stop the CV.

The more I play the more I realize how bad the CV change has become. 

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