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Zaydin

Nerf HE already

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There's no excuse to keep sitting on your hands about HE spam, WG. No one likes playing against HE spammers; anyone who says they do is either lying or suffering Stockholm Syndrome.

It's a cancerous 'meta' that leads to surviability builds trumping every other build and that leads for a stale and boring meta because they are the only fully viable builds. Not to mention HE spam  takes no skill beyond weighing LMB down, whereas at least with AP you need to know what spots on a ship your AP can pen, whether it's likely to overpen there or if you can hit their citadel.

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Then allow cruiser to AP pen BB the same way BB can just AP pen cruiser. The day I'll be able to score AP pen damage on an angled Yamato with my 203mm guns maybe I'll consider nerfing HE.

 

 

Also while we're at it, put all BB citadel above the waterline. There's no reason that most cruiser have their citadel at their waterline or above while BB have underwater/turtleback. If the BB can punish broadside cruisers, a cruiser should be able to citadel a broadside BB at close / medium range.

Edited by AlcatrazNC

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4 minutes ago, AlcatrazNC said:

Then allow cruiser to AP pen BB the same way BB can just AP pen cruiser. The day I'll be able to score AP pen damage on an angled Yamato with my 203mm guns maybe I'll consider nerfing HE.

I said HE spam. That is, the scrubs who fire nothing but HE regardless of situation. With particularly cancerous lines being US CLs, RN BBs and IJN gunboats.

I'll fire HE at a BB or another cruiser in my CAs (Des Moines, Hipper, Charles Martel, etc) if they are angled and then switch to AP if I have a good angle. Gotten 8k pens with HP in my CM before on a Montana.

Way too many cruiser players have the impression that CA AP cannot pen BB armor when it can. Yeah, you've generally got to be close but it's not impossible.

WG should be encouraging players to switch ammo appropriately for a situation. Instead they have left things where you can just load HE all match and weigh down your LMB.

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1 minute ago, Zaydin said:

I said HE spam. That is, the scrubs who fire nothing but HE regardless of situation. With particularly cancerous lines being US CLs, RN BBs and IJN gunboats.

Then sail broadside.

No seriously, if you know he's going to keep HE spamming, then use your citadel armour. Always funny to see Conqueror spamming nothing but HE and shatter his HE on your Yamato citadel. And it's not like spaming AP in CL or IJN gunboat would be more effective either.

1 minute ago, Zaydin said:

Way too many cruiser players have the impression that CA AP cannot pen BB armor when it can. Yeah, you've generally got to be close but it's not impossible.

 

Because CA AP vs BB isn't as reliable as BB AP vs CA. Even Conqueror, that is known to have bad armour for a BB can still reliably bounce CA AP, even when aiming at the superstructure. And if you aim at the superstructure when not saturated, not only do you will score more damage with HE but you'll also start a fire or 2.

 

Someone who keep spamming HE regardless of someone's angling well never be as effective as someone who uses AP at the right situation. You complain about those HE spammer, TBH, I would rather face an enemy who shoots nothing but HE rather than an enemy who shoots AP when you start showing some broadside.

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Learn ship ranges? Don't over-extend? Focus fire the HE ship as most of them are quite fragile? Quit misusing the word cancer? Get good?

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28 minutes ago, Zaydin said:

There's no excuse to keep sitting on your hands about HE spam, WG. No one likes playing against HE spammers; anyone who says they do is either lying or suffering Stockholm Syndrome.

It's a cancerous 'meta' that leads to surviability builds trumping every other build and that leads for a stale and boring meta because they are the only fully viable builds. Not to mention HE spam  takes no skill beyond weighing LMB down, whereas at least with AP you need to know what spots on a ship your AP can pen, whether it's likely to overpen there or if you can hit their citadel.

Aren't you the one that hates people having intolerance towards CVs? Why the intolerance against HE, especially when you state in post #3 it's the incorrect use of it rather than the effect.

Please take @SkaerKrow's and @AlcatrazNC's advice - it is very good advice.

 

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I guess everyone wants to be god and not die of anything.

  • Torp soup - Torps nerfed to the ground. If its not IJN DDs in 2017, it was CVs after 0.8.0.1 in the first half of 2019!
  • Firing in smoke- This was the birth of rapid firing cruisers of today... This is way reload times were lowered
  • Gun firing range visibility/spotting nerf- Because no one wanted to die from an invisible ship.
  • BB AP- In the year of the BBs of 2018! AP and BB ship armor changed to what we see today... Its the must unbalance part of the BBs to date
  • 2019-- Year of BUFF everything guns/bombs/rockets because no one wants to die from torps... 
  • Torp reloads are minimum a minute and 50 sec to above 2 min at high tiers.
  • Some ships ordnance are "inadequate" for the tier they partake in.  

My question to people like the OP is... What do you guys want to die of?? All other ordnance is being

  • handcuffed
  • nerfed to the ground
  • made useless at some ship in certain tiers.

One thing for sure, ordnance  favoritism/discrimination/lack of diversity  has to stop at the policy level.

 

Edited by Navalpride33

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"Waaah! Nerf the one thing that can semi-reliably hurt my awesome and super tough BB! Game play parity? What's that? No! I don't want ships that are a quarter my tonnage with puny guns to be able to have a chance against me!"

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Eh... The Japanese 100mm/65 type 98 DP could use a pen reduction to about 20% rather than 25%, and Conqueror could probably use some tweaks to make the 457s and AP in general more appealing (maybe the rest of the line too, idk); but on the whole? HE's not really that bad unless you get focused down. In which case that's what killed you. Getting focused, I mean, not HE specifically. "Becoming popular" as I like to call it is never good for your health in this game.

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2 hours ago, Zaydin said:

Not to mention HE spam  takes no skill beyond weighing LMB down, whereas at least with AP you need to know what spots on a ship your AP can pen, whether it's likely to overpen there or if you can hit their citadel.

I am sure that Republique that will overmatch my Hindenburg anywhere had to calculate for a long time, planning it through perfectly and then time his salvo to chunk me for 10k every salvo.

Much skill.

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2 hours ago, Zaydin said:

I said HE spam. That is, the scrubs who fire nothing but HE regardless of situation. With particularly cancerous lines being US CLs, RN BBs and IJN gunboats.

I'll fire HE at a BB or another cruiser in my CAs (Des Moines, Hipper, Charles Martel, etc) if they are angled and then switch to AP if I have a good angle. Gotten 8k pens with HP in my CM before on a Montana.

Way too many cruiser players have the impression that CA AP cannot pen BB armor when it can. Yeah, you've generally got to be close but it's not impossible.

WG should be encouraging players to switch ammo appropriately for a situation. Instead they have left things where you can just load HE all match and weigh down your LMB.

Tell me. How am i going to use 152mm AP on angled BBs at T10? Explain that one to me.

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10 minutes ago, SireneRacker said:

I am sure that Republique that will overmatch my Hindenburg anywhere had to calculate for a long time, planning it through perfectly and then time his salvo to chunk me for 10k every salvo.

Much skill.

Come on, now, he's talking about vs BBs, because everyone knows that battleships are the only type that matters.

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Someone always wants something changed to benefit them in game play . Know you ships limitations and strengths , use it to your advantage , it's not rocket science.

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I don't like having to fight HE cruisers all the time, but I accept that it's necessary for game balance. If you can't HE a battleship to death, then why bother playing a cruiser at all? HE spam is one of the main ways to take down a battleship with a cruiser, other than that a cruiser is virtually defenseless against a battleship.=

It's not hard to counter HE spam. Don't be the first target to be shot at, keep distance if necessary, and take a fire prevention build which actually works very well

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13 hours ago, Lert said:

"Waaah! Nerf the one thing that can semi-reliably hurt my awesome and super tough BB! Game play parity? What's that? No! I don't want ships that are a quarter my tonnage with puny guns to be able to have a chance against me!"

Shouldn't jump to conclusions, Lert, considering my most played class is actually cruisers. I just loathe HE spam in general because it takes no skill, there's little counter play beyond 'Pray you don't get hit' and the HE spam meta means that only surviability builds are viable long term.

WG should be encouraging players to switch ammo as appropriate for a situation. Instead there are a number of ships where you can fire nothing but HE and weigh your LMB down and get comparable or better results than someone properly swapping ammo.

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3 minutes ago, Zaydin said:

... my most played class is actually cruisers. I just loathe HE spam in general because it takes no skill ...

So, you use only AP? Or are you a part of the problem?

HE is the only viable weapon light cruisers and gunboat destroyers have against battleships, especially angled ones. You'd be stupid not to use it. But, lets say HE gets nerfed as per your whine, what would you suggest gets buffed so CLs and gunboat DDs don't lose their main offense against angled BBs, and game play parity is maintained?

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10 minutes ago, Lert said:

So, you use only AP? Or are you a part of the problem?

HE is the only viable weapon light cruisers and gunboat destroyers have against battleships, especially angled ones. You'd be stupid not to use it. But, lets say HE gets nerfed as per your whine, what would you suggest gets buffed so CLs and gunboat DDs don't lose their main offense against angled BBs, and game play parity is maintained?

What is it with people lacking reading comprehension? I said spam. I am well aware there are situations where HE is the better choice. It's firing nothing but HE that grates on my nerves.

The notion that cruisers can't pen BBs with armor piercing shells is one that grates on me, because they can. You just have to actually, you know, know where to aim (An unreasonable request, I know). Not to mention most cruiser lines have torpedoes to make up for the smaller caliber guns which can hit considerably harder than AP shells. Yeah, the ranges on a lot are not great, but it's still an option and the sort of damage a BB will be wary of.

As for hitting gunboat DDs with nerfs? Good. They need it, especially the IJN gunboats. 100mm popguns being able to pen 32mm of armor with their innate 1/4 pen on HE shells and IFHE should have never made it past testing.

Most of my BBs are specced for survivability. Thing is, I don't find that fun. Having the exact same build for every battleship is. not. fun.

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12 hours ago, Legio_X_ said:

Tell me. How am i going to use 152mm AP on angled BBs at T10? Explain that one to me.

You're not supposed to, that's the intent of the thread.  You're supposed to go out there like a good little Cruiser to get deleted while the Battleship doesn't have to worry about much at all.

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15 hours ago, SkaerKrow said:

Learn ship ranges? Don't over-extend? Focus fire the HE ship as most of them are quite fragile? Quit misusing the word cancer? Get good?

Gonna second this.   I too was once BBQ'd nearly every game.

Rather than calling for a ban, why not consider using every BBQ as a training session?

First, consider jumping into a cruiser and throwing HE on ships.   You'll soon find the ones to pepper with that fiery goodness.   HINT:  It's the ships that over-extend into your firing lanes.   Bonus points for staying under cover and not getting hit yourself as you burn baby burn.

Then, consider the areas that promoted that unadulterated firestorm.   Did they push too hard in an exposed area?  No cover?   

Now, consider applying that to your BB play.     Could you be over-extending and getting yourself caught without cover?   Are you in a position where you're out in the open, but the HE spammer is under cover and can hit you unabated?    What can you do to counter that?   Maybe a little caution before the big push?   Maybe stay at a bit further range?     Maybe hold your position but bring all guns to bear on the spammer to get him/her to go fully under cover (and no longer firing at you)?   If you're chasing him into a corner, but he's burning you down, might you break off the rounds and then go dark (not spotted) and reposition?

You've got to analyze the situation, and mistakes are the best way to produce a counter.    I've potatoed a lot, and will potato further.  But with each tater tot I make myself, I try to figure out why I got sunk, and try to apply what I've learned to the next match.

 

Good luck!

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15 hours ago, Lert said:

"Waaah! Nerf the one thing that can semi-reliably hurt my awesome and super tough BB! Game play parity? What's that? No! I don't want ships that are a quarter my tonnage with puny guns to be able to have a chance against me!"

What if you're against HE spam because it hurts non-heal cruisers way more than than BBs.

 

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5 hours ago, StoneRhino said:

What if you're against HE spam because it hurts non-heal cruisers way more than than BBs.

1) Does it though? Or is getting blapped by AP still a much bigger cause of damage to those cruisers than drawn out HE spam? A CL without heal is certainly going to survive HE spam longer than getting blapped by AP.

2) Even if you are correct, that doesn't change the fact that nerfing HE across the board is going to handicap CL and gunboat DD ability to engage battleships, and make battleships dominant. What would you suggest gets buffed to maintain game play parity there? It doesn't really matter from what viewpoint someone asks HE to be nerfed, nerfing HE is a blanket buff to BBs.

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hey, if they remove my cruiser's citadel I'd be happy to negotiate on HE spam.

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I see what you did there OP. Judging by the responses, well played indeed!

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It's the new way for tweeker kids who can't be bothered to learn game mechanics like AIMING. Just load HE and hold LMB until your target ceases to exist.

4 hours ago, Lert said:

2) Even if you are correct, that doesn't change the fact that nerfing HE across the board is going to handicap CL and gunboat DD ability to engage battleships, and make battleships dominant. 

That's why the majority of those ships have TORPEDOES.

It's like WoT... there were occasions in battle where you came upon a target that you just couldn't hurt. In those cases you had to get creative. Either try to bait said target into a situation where your teammates could deal with him or avoid him completely and look to win the match by other means... like CAPPING.

ARMOR/SPEED/FIREPOWER... pick two.

HE spam takes armor out of the equation, so the dominant ship classes become ones focused on speed and firepower.

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