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SJ_Sailer

How Often Do Cruisers Use Torps?

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Just a little story to begin:

Yesterday in a battle near a cap and myself in a Yorck and a BB were on a flank with a Red Atlanta ahead of another York coming to our position.  I jumped out of the cove and laid into the Atlanta which I killed but the Atlanta still did a number on me and with both the York and Atlanta combined attack I did not have much left to dish to the York so he killed me and he was left with 50% health.  No problem I had my BB with me...

Then I realized he was hiding in the cove at 100% health against land fully stopped.  I guess his plan was to ambush the York when he came around the corner.  Well the BB did get one salvo off but it must have been all overpens because the York was still at 25% health and dropped 8 torps at point blank and took out a full health BB in one torp salvo.

Brings me to my point, I "RARELY" use torps with Cruisers and when I do I "RARELY" do any damage.  I am a recent DD convert who plays Algeria, Yorck, Helena, Fiji.  Any advise on using torps?

Thanks. 

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Fiji's torps are not her primary weapons; they are a deterrent/last ditch if you are trapped/being charged in smoke or otherwise cornered by an enemy heavy ship and need to deliver an F-you gesture on the way out. Ditto Yorck, except for the smoke, and I don't have Algerie yet to comment.

TLDR They are weapons of opportunity only; the guns are your primary armament. 

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Primarily use your main guns but if you find yourself in the position too(enemy in smoke for example) use your torps. Especially use your torps if you use IJN cruisers. There arcs may be a bit awkward but they hit hard last I cheched

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High tier Japanese and British cruisers have very nice long range torps - and a lot of them -that can and should be used every single game. 

Everyone else either has good range but too few or good quantity and shorter range too make them anything but situational.  They are certainly a nasty and powerful surprise when they can be used for ambushes or when the time is just right.

Edited by T_O_dubl_D

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When I am using any ship with torpedoes I try to get in range of a target and get off at least one torp if not a spread. I play aggressively and usually get sunk shortly after a torp launch since I usually take quite a pounding while closing in. Sometimes satisfaction comes from hitting other ships with torps that missed the target.

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7 minutes ago, SJ_Sailer said:

Just a little story to begin:

Yesterday in a battle near a cap and myself in a Yorck and a BB were on a flank with a Red Atlanta ahead of another York coming to our position.  I jumped out of the cove and laid into the Atlanta which I killed but the Atlanta still did a number on me and with both the York and Atlanta combined attack I did not have much left to dish to the York so he killed me and he was left with 50% health.  No problem I had my BB with me...

Then I realized he was hiding in the cove at 100% health against land fully stopped.  I guess his plan was to ambush the York when he came around the corner.  Well the BB did get one salvo off but it must have been all overpens because the York was still at 25% health and dropped 8 torps at point blank and took out a full health BB in one torp salvo.

Brings me to my point, I "RARELY" use torps with Cruisers and when I do I "RARELY" do any damage.  I am a recent DD convert who plays Algeria, Yorck, Helena, Fiji.  Any advise on using torps?

Thanks. 

Hey SJ_Sailer,

Torpedoes on cruisers are not their main way of dealing damage. Yes, most nations cruisers are equipped with torpedoes, save for a few nation specific ships. There are a few cruisers in the game that can use torpedoes well (mainly IJN cruisers because of the ability to fire them undetected). 

When it comes to shorter range torpedoes, they are better used as last ditch armament. This also comes down to positioning because you have to typically expose a lot of side to launch the torpedoes. You also need to get the right angle so you can hit the target with as many torpedoes as possible. A BB pushing into cruiser smoke can be a terrifying thing for a cruiser, especially a cruiser that is trying torp. 

In the situation described above, when you pushed, the BB should have pushed with you to give you supporting fire. The mistake the player made was sitting there and believing that he was going to destroy the cruiser that was torpedo rushing him. There are too many factors (rng, angle of the enemy, dispersion and so on) to reliably delete that enemy cruiser. What BB was your teammate in? I find the Yorck to be quite trolly when it is angled and depending on the friendly BB they might have experienced this as well.

Tips:

  • Do not rely on torpedoes on most cruisers, use them as a complimentary piece or last resort. 
  • IJN cruisers are successful with torpedo attacks but they also tend to have longer range i.e. Zao (12km).
  • Trying to get your torps off, you need to do this is combination of maneuvering and shooting your guns.
  • RN CLs can also be successful with torpedo attacks at higher tiers because of the unique spreads.

Hope these tips help and good question!

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Opportunity weapon for me.

The situation you described is a perfect example. You can get to "can't miss" range without getting blown out of the water.

Different cruisers get different opportunities. For example, if you have good torp angles, you can be turned away and running, while you send fish against that DD hiding around the corner. I find Fiji torps useful for sending singly at BBs chasing me, so they keep having to maneuver and lose speed.

Edited by Skpstr

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Cruiser torps on IJN, RN and Commonwealth cruisers are excellent area denial and ambush weapons. No cruiser has a torp range that significantly exceeds its' detection range (smoke-equipped cruisers excepted) and most have torpedo ranges shorter than normal detection. RN T8 to T10 cruisers have decent arcs, and Neptune and Minotaur can inflict serious hurt if they fire their large numbers of torpedoes from concealment given the high damage each torp can inflict if it hits, plus the single fire option give a lot of flexibility to the RN ships. Fiji and Leander are handicapped by their shorter torp range a bit, but can still be useful. I try and maximize my torpedo use with RN ships.

IJN cruiser torps are the premium ship killers, especially at higher tiers, but are more difficult to use because of the limited arcs. I still use them as often as the situation allows.

German and Russian torps are very situational due to short range.

Italian torps have the range but not the speed and hitting power, and are good for long-range browning shots and area denial unless you are so close that an ambush might work.

Edited by GrandAdmiral_2016

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Yeah I rarely use torps as well on my cruisers. In order to use them you are forced to expose too much broadside unless your cruiser has really good torp angles. 

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1 hour ago, SJ_Sailer said:

Just a little story to begin:

Yesterday in a battle near a cap and myself in a Yorck and a BB were on a flank with a Red Atlanta ahead of another York coming to our position.  I jumped out of the cove and laid into the Atlanta which I killed but the Atlanta still did a number on me and with both the York and Atlanta combined attack I did not have much left to dish to the York so he killed me and he was left with 50% health.  No problem I had my BB with me...

Then I realized he was hiding in the cove at 100% health against land fully stopped.  I guess his plan was to ambush the York when he came around the corner.  Well the BB did get one salvo off but it must have been all overpens because the York was still at 25% health and dropped 8 torps at point blank and took out a full health BB in one torp salvo.

Brings me to my point, I "RARELY" use torps with Cruisers and when I do I "RARELY" do any damage.  I am a recent DD convert who plays Algeria, Yorck, Helena, Fiji.  Any advise on using torps?

Thanks. 

Get in close enough to see the whites of his eyes.

in my experience brawling is the best use of ca torps, particularly in a yolo situation. Long range torps are best used in kiting, ie someone is chasing you, you running, sling those myoko torps while he reloads, sometimes he’ll run into them. 

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1 hour ago, Ensign_Cthulhu said:

Fiji's torps are not her primary weapons; they are a deterrent/last ditch if you are trapped/being charged in smoke or otherwise cornered by an enemy heavy ship and need to deliver an F-you gesture on the way out. Ditto Yorck, except for the smoke, and I don't have Algerie yet to comment.

TLDR They are weapons of opportunity only; the guns are your primary armament. 

Algie is a beast. Me last game in her (always epic regardless of the ship) i took down 3 atagos with a comination of torps/citadel hits. Singlehandedly won that game while the rest of the team bumbled around in A.

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How much torps get used by Cruisers depends on the line and situation.

4km, 6km torps aren't frequently used by Cruisers due to range.

10km or more are more likely to be used and even then it depends.  IJN Cruisers have many that go 10km or even 12km as in the case of Zao.  But their launch angles are more rearward facing in general.  If you got open water and the IJN Cruiser is on the defense, you can bet fish are going in the water.   RN Cruisers don't get long range torpedoes and good quantity until Tiers IX & X.  They get tons of them.  Neptune has bad concealment so it can't Stealth Torp but can use them defensively easily.  Minotaur users LOVE using their torpedoes because the ship can Stealth Torp.

The French Cruisers have better range than Ze Germans for their torpedoes but are woefully lacking in torpedo damage and mass of torps.  They also have poor concealment as Cruisers so if they're doing a torpedo run on someone it's going to be telegraphed quite easily.

 

I try to use Torpedoes whenever safely possible with my Cruisers.  Properly used, it is the YOLO weapon of choice even against a Battleship.

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While I love my torpedo armed cruisers, torps are definitely not a weapon you get to utilize every single game.  In most cases they're more effective as a deterrent for BBs or other cruisers.  Nobody wants to rush you if you're sitting around a corner or island and risk getting nuked.  As for tips a lot of them vary per line:

For IJN Cruisers your generally rearward torpedo arcs limit their use to kiting or area denial.  Unlike other cruiser lines you have great range and A LOT of torps per side.  If the enemy is pushing through an area flood it with torps from a safe angle then start kiting away.  At worst you'll disrupt their push and mess up their positioning.  Get lucky and you can swing a game.  Very often you can fire these when the enemies are outside 10km if they're pushing into you, and sometimes you'll catch them seriously off guard.  When actively kiting it helps to periodically go dark and drop torps then.  Against BBs periodically going dark while kiting is also a great tactic since they're usually itching to shoot.  Go dark for a bit, and they'll often switch aim, letting you open up fire again without fear of retaliation.

For French/Italian cruisers you have fairly long range (9-12km), good torpedo arcs, and low torpedo counts.  At lower tiers you should chuck these out whenever you can.  At higher tiers you'll need to be a bit more careful.  It's really all gambling though.  The low number of tubes per launcher means you don't have to worry about reload much.  Speaking of which this is probably the only thing Abruzzi has going for her.  12km torps with really low speed, detection, and near forward firing arcs catches EVERYONE off guard.

For RN cruisers you have solid torps with respectable range and damage. You also can single fire them from smoke.  I think the same principles that apply to DDs also apply here.  If somebody is rushing your smoke hold your torps as long as possible.  

For German cruisers.  Uh.  They have great torps on paper.  In practice they sit in a very awkward place.  6km torps with weak damage but good detection and speed might be a good setup for a DD, but poor for a cruiser.  They're solid for cruiser duels but those don't happen all too much.  Against BBs the range is insufficient.  As a last resort nuke their low damage is a downside.  That being said you still get a good amount per side, so they're not bad for that.  Just somewhat awkward.  Don't try to actively use them unless your in a Graf Spee (who has 8km torps at tier 6).

For Soviet cruisers I can't really say since I haven't gone up the line.  For most tiers they're stuck at 4km, with blazing fast speed and average to good damage.  However they have low tube counts.  I've been playing since Beta Weekend, and I'm pretty sure I've seen more Solo Warriors than Soviet cruiser torp kills.

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When playing IJN Cruisers, I like to drop them into smoke cloud and into what I believe are paths near islands it looks like the enemy is going to come around.

On the RN Cruisers, I use them as a deterrent to keep from getting to close to me, except for the Neptune and Mino which I will use like I use the IJN ones.  RN Cruisers being able to single launch can provide a huge punch.

German Cruisers, those are for ambushing, or when you are charging a BB and want to take him with you.

Russian Cruisers are more of the same.  Kutz and Donkey have 8km torps which can be used to deter people.

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I think the torps on most cruisers are quite useful. I often will fire a Hail Mary volley if the situation presents itself and I'm not putting myself at extra risk to use them. Always try to use them if I have a decent shot. As others have said, they should not be relied on to be your main weapons but should not be ignored either. One of their main values is in deterrence. No reason a BB wouldn't come around an island to trade salvos with a US CL/CA at close range. Against almost any other cruiser he would at least have to consider that he could catch some torps for his efforts. Even if that cruiser is wounded, it just needs the time (and angles) to get the torps off, which it might do before the BB even gets around the island to start the shooting.  I have had situations where I am being chased around an island and can fire torps at my pursuer without either of us being able to bring guns to bear. The BB in your scenario learned that the hard way. That CL survived the initial salvo, but may have already got the torps off before that salvo arrived anyway.

If nothing else, they are great for getting "Flesh Wound" medals as many ships assume its over when they sink you and start looking for other targets.

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49 minutes ago, GrimmeReaper said:

When playing IJN Cruisers, I like to drop them into smoke cloud and into what I believe are paths near islands it looks like the enemy is going to come around.

On the RN Cruisers, I use them as a deterrent to keep from getting to close to me, except for the Neptune and Mino which I will use like I use the IJN ones.  RN Cruisers being able to single launch can provide a huge punch.

German Cruisers, those are for ambushing, or when you are charging a BB and want to take him with you.

Russian Cruisers are more of the same.  Kutz and Donkey have 8km torps which can be used to deter people.

A funny moment a while back was using Zao, before she got the 12km torpedoes, and getting into a cap to Stealth Torp a smoke camping Worcester that was south and outside the cap.  Dropped both sides' worth of torpedoes and got the sonuvab****.  It was risky, because if a DD had decided to poke into the cap to see what was going on since I was inside, I could get spotted even with Zao's concealment.  It was a gamble but it paid off big.  Once the Worcester was done, the DDs on our flank felt a lot better and pushed up and finished the cap.  They could have done it a lot more easily than my Cruiser because I was outside Worcester's radar range, and if a DD pushed up to check, it'd take a lot longer for them to find a DD than my Zao.

 

There is a caveat to IJN Cruisers and torpedo usage.  Using them in the wrong time, i.e. when you're spotted and people are actually looking right at you, that is the single greatest sin you can do with an IJN Cruiser.  That's how they get deleted.  You have to be more sly on it, kiting away and in stealth, or somehow pulling off an island ambush with those rearward facing launchers, which is kind of annoying to use in such situations.

 

Torpedoes are a great deterrent even against Battleships from pushing up in certain situations.  Even Cruisers like Lazo with 4km torps, Atlanta with 4.5km torps... If they're behind an island and ready to receive a BB pushing through, they WILL get off those torps to the Battleship's detriment.  I've seen plenty enough BBs get rekt by Atlanta's "useless" 4.5km torps when it comes to island ambushes.  Either the BB never knew ATL had torps or they didn't respect it enough.  Torpedoes in certain situations are the great equalizer.  For a few lucky Cruisers, sometimes it's the best option because opening gunfire at certain points of a close game or dangerous moment can get you rekt.

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20 minutes ago, HazeGrayUnderway said:

A funny moment a while back was using Zao, before she got the 12km torpedoes, and getting into a cap to Stealth Torp a smoke camping Worcester that was south and outside the cap.  Dropped both sides' worth of torpedoes and got the sonuvab****.  It was risky, because if a DD had decided to poke into the cap to see what was going on since I was inside, I could get spotted even with Zao's concealment.  It was a gamble but it paid off big.  Once the Worcester was done, the DDs on our flank felt a lot better and pushed up and finished the cap.  They could have done it a lot more easily than my Cruiser because I was outside Worcester's radar range, and if a DD pushed up to check, it'd take a lot longer for them to find a DD than my Zao.

 

There is a caveat to IJN Cruisers and torpedo usage.  Using them in the wrong time, i.e. when you're spotted and people are actually looking right at you, that is the single greatest sin you can do with an IJN Cruiser.  That's how they get deleted.  You have to be more sly on it, kiting away and in stealth, or somehow pulling off an island ambush with those rearward facing launchers, which is kind of annoying to use in such situations.

 

Torpedoes are a great deterrent even against Battleships from pushing up in certain situations.  Even Cruisers like Lazo with 4km torps, Atlanta with 4.5km torps... If they're behind an island and ready to receive a BB pushing through, they WILL get off those torps to the Battleship's detriment.  I've seen plenty enough BBs get rekt by Atlanta's "useless" 4.5km torps when it comes to island ambushes.  Either the BB never knew ATL had torps or they didn't respect it enough.  Torpedoes in certain situations are the great equalizer.  For a few lucky Cruisers, sometimes it's the best option because opening gunfire at certain points of a close game or dangerous moment can get you rekt.

Occasionally you have to take the risk.  And you did it at the right time.

And I total agree with the caveat you put forward.  I never drop torps when I am spotted in an IJN Cruiser.  To easy deleted.

 

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Hipper is an excellent torpedo cruiser. She is made to brawl, and can get in close to other cruisers and even BBs. Good arcs, and launchers on both sides. My best Hipper games feature quick brawls ended by torpedo strikes.

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The problem with CA torps is range and geometry.   Few can stealth torp, and in many instances team geometry (friendlies in front) require a hold.  That said, they can be very effective at the right time.  Both the actual firing of the torps as well as just the threat of the torps.  But as others have said, they aren't primary...just mainly opportunity fire...or on some maps, simply lane or cap denial.  

Just last night I was in Neptune and running an escape vector away from superior forces on the other side of land mass.  I didn't see anyone, but knew they were there, so I launched a "covering spread" (akin to the ubiquitous covering fire in infantry tactics) of torps at the corner of the land mass.  My logic being if no one showed, I would escape clean on that side running away.  If someone showed...they would have to manage the torps...giving me time to extend.  And since no friendlies were over there, it was a clean shot.  It worked better than I imagined.  The T10 CA that was stalking me decided to pursue my direction....came around the corner...and caught the spread broadside.  Purely a blind shot....but saved my bacon...and extended what would have been a marginal lead into a substantial one.  

 

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Torps on cruisers are harder to use than on DDs. They work best from stealth and there are very few cruisers which have a detection smaller than their torpedo range. Also the fact that cruisers have citadels means that they can be obliterated if they try to turn and launch them while visible.

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5 hours ago, SJ_Sailer said:

Just a little story to begin:

Yesterday in a battle near a cap and myself in a Yorck and a BB were on a flank with a Red Atlanta ahead of another York coming to our position.  I jumped out of the cove and laid into the Atlanta which I killed but the Atlanta still did a number on me and with both the York and Atlanta combined attack I did not have much left to dish to the York so he killed me and he was left with 50% health.  No problem I had my BB with me...

Then I realized he was hiding in the cove at 100% health against land fully stopped.  I guess his plan was to ambush the York when he came around the corner.  Well the BB did get one salvo off but it must have been all overpens because the York was still at 25% health and dropped 8 torps at point blank and took out a full health BB in one torp salvo.

Brings me to my point, I "RARELY" use torps with Cruisers and when I do I "RARELY" do any damage.  I am a recent DD convert who plays Algeria, Yorck, Helena, Fiji.  Any advise on using torps?

Thanks. 

   I'm in the same boat as you- I rarely use my torps in MOST of my cruisers.   Mainly for 2 reasons:  a) I'm a US cruiser main, lol.   Thus my cruiser instincts are honed to find and exploit good opportunites for gun use.   I usually forget I even have them, when in a non-US cruiser that plays like a gunship.   and b)  USING them often requires one to present one's broadside to an enemy at close range- and bots shoot VERY strait, lol.

  I WILL use them more often when in a more DD-like cruiser, like the IJN lights, the French Lights, and the low to mid tier RN's.   You essentially have to, as none of those ships has the DPM to sink a charging enemy BB before it's on top of you.   Nor do they have the armor to duke it out for long at all, lol.    I'll tend to use ambush tactics, or, if need be- a yolo rush vs a stoopid.    There are some special cases, too- like Huang He and Exeter.   Torpedoes are very much a part of their playstyle.

  I do see a LOT of players who seem to view a cruiser as an oversize DD with a citadel...   When it comes to torpedo spam, those are by far the worst offenders- tossing them everywhere and anywhere.   8 out of 10 times, if a torp is launched from behind me- it was a schmuck in a cruiser who did it.   It's downright dangerous to play around some of those guys.

  The German heavies have surprisingly good armor, and can often be trollishly hard to kill in a hurry when you need to, lol.   They also have pretty generous torpedo angles- making them good skirmishers  for dealing with enemy cruisers or supporting an AGGRESSIVE BB.   The shell arcs can get a bit floaty at maximum range though.  (Yorck really annoyed me, sometimes, when played in Randoms- due to the long range camp n snipe meta.  It's just not that ship's strong suit)

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Hiya m8

    I would like to think of myself as a cruiser main. Love gnies too. 

    As many others have said cruiser torpedoes are situational and depends on ship and nation. 

   I often use my cruiser torps to scare and block paths. They have different ranges. 

    I play German cruisers, their torps are short range 6 to 8km (Graff spee)  mostly for defence so I like to fire them at dds who get to close and BBs that want to brawl, or that lucky bb that thinks it's a DD and turns the corner on an island. Not for attack stick to the German steel for damage. Yorck is my favorite 

    My favorite is my duca daosta, I'm Italian.  12km torps they are ssslllllloooooowwwwww but so much fun. For some reason noone expects them. I use them between islands where ships might go through and oddly enough players will said right into them they forget the range. 

     Played US cruisers but "that's all i got to say about that" 

     I love cruiser play, for torps you often have to expose broadside, exception some IJN, and that's a cruiser NoNo.

    Have fun I hope I was helpful.

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6 hours ago, SJ_Sailer said:

Brings me to my point, I "RARELY" use torps with Cruisers and when I do I "RARELY" do any damage.  I am a recent DD convert who plays Algeria, Yorck, Helena, Fiji.  Any advise on using torps?

This depends on the CL, CA, or CB in question. With German, French, and Russian cruisers, it is often difficult to be in position to use your torpedoes. United States cruisers lose torpedoes after Tier 6 with the exception of some premiums, so it's also a nonissue. Where you'll want to learn torpedo handling is with Royal Navy (especially Minotaur) and Japanese (especially Zao's 4×5 12km TTs) cruisers.

With fast-reloading CLs like Minotaur, I tend to stealth drop torpedoes before I open up with my guns. This way, I do not interrupt my main batteries' quick reload to dump fish, which is an obvious tell for any enemy ship paying attention to the frequency of SAP shells flying through the air.

With slower IJN 203mm guns and Exeter, however, I will either launch torpedoes from stealth (if it is an option) or fire torpedoes immediately after a main battery salvo. With IJN cruisers especially (excepting Furutaka and Atago), torpedo tubes are placed so that they cover the stern quite well, making for ideal torpedo arcs while kiting away.

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