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CBT Player, New to CV now practicing in Co-Op, but...

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When is the right time to start doing Random Battles and not be a clear detriment to my team?

I bought the Graf Zepplin and enjoy playing it in co-op, and while I need more practice before I'm experienced enough to play in Randoms, I was interested in what CV players had to say about this?

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Just curious, what are you usually getting in terms of damage? Not that I am going to base my answer entirely on that. I personally started learning in randoms. I would say the best time to switch is when you have a firm grasp on dodging flak.

Edited by MommaSheep1738
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1 minute ago, MommaSheep1738 said:

Just curious, what are you usually getting in terms of damage? Not that I am going to base my answer entirely on that. I personally started learning in randoms. I would say the best time to switch is when you have a firm grasp on dodging flak.

Its low... and one thing I've noticed is that it is a combination of both my inexperience, that I can improve by drop precision and target selection; but the other thing I noticed is that in co-op a lot of the time the other players are burning through the bots so fast that it doesn't even resemble a Random Battle duration to give me a good measure of how much damage I'm really doing in a match before heading into Randoms.

I was hoping to be able to average 50k before I even thought of doing Randoms, but it can vary as widely as 18k to 30ish k damage in a match depending on how fast the team tears through the bots.

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5 minutes ago, KSN said:

Its low... and one thing I've noticed is that it is a combination of both my inexperience, that I can improve by drop precision and target selection; but the other thing I noticed is that in co-op a lot of the time the other players are burning through the bots so fast that it doesn't even resemble a Random Battle duration to give me a good measure of how much damage I'm really doing in a match before heading into Randoms.

I was hoping to be able to average 50k before I even thought of doing Randoms, but it can vary as widely as 18k to 30ish k damage in a match depending on how fast the team tears through the bots.

I guess 50k average would be a nice place to start. However, I would like to say that yes, bots get rekked. In randoms, people don't die so fast. This will probably raise your damage. Another milestone I think would be a good indicator of switching time is consistent torp hits. Also, is the GZ your only CV?

Edited by MommaSheep1738
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7 minutes ago, MommaSheep1738 said:

I guess 50k average would be a nice place to start. However, I would like to say that yes, bots get rekked. In randoms, people don't die so fast. This will probably raise your damage. Another milestone I think would be a good indicator of switching time is consistent torp hits. Also, is the GZ your only CV?

I have a Saipan that I bought way back but never used really, as I was trash at the RTS CV system. And with the new system I was considering purchasing an Enterprise.

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Just now, KSN said:

I have a Saipan that I bought way back but never used really, as I was trash at the RTS CV system. And with the new system I was considering purchasing an Enterprise.

I'm not too familiar with Saipan or GZ, but I am very familiar with the tech tree CVs all throughout the tiers. As for Enterprise, I have one, and I absolutely adore it. Amazing attack planes, high damage DBs if used well on the right targets, and easy to use torps. If you are in the market for another CV, Enterprise. If you would like some tips and info on the peculiarities of each carrier, I would be delighted to help. Really, ask anything.

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Better to start at t4 with a tech tree line and learn CV from their, graduating to t6 etc, than just jumping in with a premium at t8.

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You can't measure random performance in Co-op. You can only practice aiming. Only thing you can do is get comfortable with the aiming system and then start random battles. Don't worry about being a burden or leading your team to victory just try your best and then try to improve. Games depend more on the ability of your surface team mates to survive and your ability to spot threats. Your ability to damage is secondary to this and plays a much smaller part even though it helps.

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You should start playing CV's in either IJN/RN/USN lines. The GZ has AP bombs found on IJN line ships as they are Different countries they are Different in their own right. Being New to CV's you will find when you do get to battles in PVP with the GZ you will be Tier'd from 6-10's and can be punishing.

 

 

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11 minutes ago, Kapitan_Wuff said:

Better to start at t4 with a tech tree line and learn CV from their, graduating to t6 etc, than just jumping in with a premium at t8.

Don't tell WG this or they might actually come to their senses and stop giving basic missions for tier 8s away in the gambling boxes.

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1 hour ago, KSN said:

When is the right time to start doing Random Battles and not be a clear detriment to my team?

I bought the Graf Zepplin and enjoy playing it in co-op, and while I need more practice before I'm experienced enough to play in Randoms, I was interested in what CV players had to say about this?

As a former RTS CV captain who is transitioning into the new system in co-op using Enterprise and Saipan, I'm first working on my aim and avoiding AA fire. Once I get these two down, then I would focus on more nuanced tactics like national differences, target prioritization, spotting, positioning, etc. Consistency is my main goal for the time being.

It took me a few hundred battles in randoms and co-op to get fairly proficient at RTS CVs, and I expect it will take somewhere close to that amount to become proficient at these new CVs as well.

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It isn't a time it is a tier which is 4 and work your way up. Co-op is really only good to show you how the mechanics of making attacks work.

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5 hours ago, BrushWolf said:

It isn't a time it is a tier which is 4 and work your way up. Co-op is really only good to show you how the mechanics of making attacks work.

I appreciated this post, and did purchase a Hosho... argh it is so basic it hurts. But I'm trying...

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1 minute ago, KSN said:

I appreciated this post, and did purchase a Hosho... argh it is so basic it hurts. But I'm trying...

I know it hurts but it will pay off in the end. Not so much tier 4 but once you get to tier 6 and AA can become really nasty you will have the skills to avoid the nastiest ships. The IJN line is probably the toughest because the only reliable weapon you have against DD are attack fighters with their rockets and DD's can be hard to see so you might want to consider the US or the UK line. Good luck and hang in there.

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19 minutes ago, BrushWolf said:

I know it hurts but it will pay off in the end. Not so much tier 4 but once you get to tier 6 and AA can become really nasty you will have the skills to avoid the nastiest ships. The IJN line is probably the toughest because the only reliable weapon you have against DD are attack fighters with their rockets and DD's can be hard to see so you might want to consider the US or the UK line. Good luck and hang in there.

Thanks for the well wishing. I just had a win and 30k some odd damage... I know about flak, and I know about sling shot'ing to difficult AA targets, but I'm a bit confused about, what if any real maneuvering there is to do besides boosting out since WGing coded the mechanic that it will cost to get in on the target after you strike.

Is there a guide about flak specifically?

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1 minute ago, KSN said:

Thanks for the well wishing. I just had a win and 30k some odd damage... I know about flak, and I know about sling shot'ing to difficult AA targets, but I'm a bit confused about, what if any real maneuvering there is to do besides boosting out since WGing coded the mechanic that it will cost to get in on the target after you strike.

Is there a guide about flak specifically?

Dodge the darkest flak bursts if you can.

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11 minutes ago, BrushWolf said:

Dodge the darkest flak bursts if you can.

That part was intuitive for sure... plus my Grandfather crewed on a B-24 Liberator, so I know all about that. *(Memphis Bell still be the best WWII Bomber movie; its to bad they killed making "The Mighty Eighth" )

 

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2 minutes ago, KSN said:

That part was intuitive for sure... plus my Grandfather crewed on a B-24 Liberator, so I know all about that. *(Memphis Bell still be the best WWII Bomber movie; its to bad they killed making "The Mighty Eighth" )

 

I haven't seen that movie but respects to your Grandfather. My father was in Greenland which I had thought was a backwater and only recently found out was the front lines in a climate that could kill you. He had been on the Dorchester the ship of the four chaplains but had been taken off do to illness. It is scary how close to not existing you can be because of simple illness.

Since we are talking about CV's some Sabaton.

 

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10 minutes ago, BrushWolf said:

I haven't seen that movie but respects to your Grandfather. My father was in Greenland which I had thought was a backwater and only recently found out was the front lines in a climate that could kill you. He had been on the Dorchester the ship of the four chaplains but had been taken off do to illness. It is scary how close to not existing you can be because of simple illness.

Since we are talking about CV's some Sabaton.

 

Respects right back at you - yeah in "Total War" there is no safe behind the lines or backwaters. The North Atlantic was critical to resupply. Yeah my Grandfather passed way back in 1999, but man did he share all sorts of things with me about being a tail gunner on a B24 while I was growing up!

Anyway, now that I took your suggestion and stepped out of co-op, this is what I just did last match (including a finishing ram with the enemy CV); sadly the teams keep folding more often than not:

946180961_HoshoRandom.thumb.png.94380fc8fb24489588b7da3922c11229.png

 

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This is what I was able to do on a win, no ramming: (if anyone cares to assess it, I'm happy to hear constructive criticism)

image.thumb.png.e04bfc46b33e5533e74036bc3c6bd62e.png

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Yeah, let me chime in with the "start at T4" comments.  Yes, it's painful, but you learn what ordnance works best against what targets without much in the way of punishing AA down there.

So far in my french fry experience, playing all three tech trees has been interesting.

IJN - seems best vs capitol ships.  Good TB's, and the DB's can put out some good numbers.  Weak against DD's (because the DB's are crap against them), but their rockets are serviceable.

USN - seems best against lighter targets (at least at lower tiers, at higher tiers you gain more tools to use).  DB's are good vs everything, rockets have higher dispersion but are decent (and prep you for the glory of tiny Tim's or hvar's at T8).  TB's are serviceable, but not fantastic.

RN - good all around.  Rockets are decent, TB's are good, level bombers... well, they put out a ton of shots but require good timing due to slow falling speed.  Better fire chance compared to USN DB's.

Starting at the bottom gives you a chance to learn each nation's flavor before having to worry so much about flak or fighters.

Good luck!

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I think, one of the more important skills as a CV player to recognize is situational awareness. Know what opportunities arise, know when to relocate, and know when to sacrifice planes. I've been with CVs since 8.0, let me give you some tips.

-Know your targets, especially where they do the most AA damage (short, mid, long range). This usually determines the kind of strike that you can do. For instance, the Texas has mid-short range DPS that can obliterate dive bombers, but has a slightly more forgiving opening for torpedo bombers. Take some time to thumb through the tech trees.

-Know your openings. Even a good AA ship is vulnerable alone, and even bad AA ships can be exponentially more dangerous when paired up. CVs tend to punish anyone out of formation.

-Ocean-dropping: If you need to press into a particularly nasty ship, have a damaged squad, or if you're attacking CVs that still have fighters, dropping ordinance to attack with less wings can save you planes in the long run.

-Long-run torpping: Sometimes the delay to start the run puts you in more flack when you should. Idea is to start the run outside of AA range, boost through the bubble and drop, using the boost to exit the bubble on the other side. After which, you can go for another pass or head back to the carrier. It's recommended you get the torp time upgrade, although the GZ is so fast it doesn't really need it.

-Know how fighters work. Basically fighters kill at a 1-1 ratio, five fighters will typically fire on an active wing until they've killed 5 planes. Keep this in mind if you need to press into fighter cover.

-Manage your heals, using a heal during a torp run can be useful, as it tends to nullify the DoT effect of most AA suites for a short period. This can potentially save quite a few planes.

-If you're being chased by fighters and they haven't fired yet, consider dropping ordinance so that they break off and the fighters have less targets to shoot. Alternatively, fly over friendly AA and see if they can get them off your tail. Finally, returning to the carrier might save some planes as well.

-Fighters work in an aura, try to place them ahead of units so they can sail into them, or behind the line where you expect planes to fly after an attack on a unit.

-The brake is useful, it slows down your run so you can get past the windup period, adjusts the rate at which dive bombers level out and move their attack reticle, and can be used to make tighter turns.

I'm probably forgetting some, but experience is the best teacher.

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19 hours ago, KSN said:

I have a Saipan that I bought way back but never used really, as I was trash at the RTS CV system. And with the new system I was considering purchasing an Enterprise.

Grinding Tech tree would be a good start, but for a beginner Premium CV Enterprise is quite good. Massive numbers of aircraft that get regenerated as fast as the US industry in WWII. Good strike capability. Very forgiving. GZ and Saipan are much more specialized and takes a much better captain to get the numbers out of them.

Recommendation: Pick a tech tree line to shoot towards, and if you really want another premium CV, I'd grab Enterprise over Kaga. 

Just my 2 cents.

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At the risk of being flamed to no end...skip T4..if you want to start early, start at T6...T4 will make you hate the game, lol.

Personally, if you want to make it interesting,  find a couple friends to div up with and try it with the T8...a couple US BB's with AA builds would make it fun for everyone concerned...they get to kill planes, and you get to kill ships.

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Well irrespective of which tier is better to start with in general (I did start at Tier IV and am now in T6), I decided to purchase Enterprise, Kaga, for upcoming T8 game play, when I'm ready for it; and Free XP'd to Hakuryu (primarily because of the Midway Nerf, and I've seen some cool videos of Hakuryu game play - and IJN Torps are painful), but will not deploy a T10 CV for a really really long time.

After starting this thread, and everyone's helpful feedback, it seems that the CV gameplay is intuitive and easy to pick up, but that if you are willing to learn a bit more and ask questions you can start to nail down the nuances of the game play and improve. And going through low tiers is exceedingly helpful, despite its frustrations.

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