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Zaydin

Some tips on dealing damage to CVs with armored flight decks from a CV player

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All the tier 10 carriers plus the Implacable have armored flight decks, which means it's a lot harder to penetrate them through their flight decks. It's with that in mind that I am writing this up because I had some anti-CV players declaring CVs are immune to damage, which made me roll my eyes. They aren't; you just aren't shooting them in the right spots.

While this is a more mixed tip, if you are low on health, I'd highly advise against trying to sink a CV unless there aren't any other options simply because carriers can and will fixate on ships targeting their carrier directly and a ship that is low on health can be finished off by a carrier. If you have more health than you can try it but just be prepared for repeated air strikes until either you sink or the carrier does.

Now, as for actually doing damage to CVs with armored flight decks, don't shoot for the flight deck. Just don't; just for example, the armored flight deck of the Midway covers the entire flight deck and is 87mm thick. You might have better luck with the Implacable, however, as her armored flight deck is only 76mm thick and that is centered largely around the center of hte flight deck next to the island. With the Implacable, if you fire at the bow or stern of the flight deck you'll likely do damage/pen, as the plating there is only 25 and 21mm thick, respectively.

Otherwise, your best bet is just putting your shells right into the side of the hull. Using the Midway as an example again, her hangar plating immediately below the island  and running the length of the ship from bow to stern is only 19mm thick. Even DD AP can penetrate that and the tier 10 CVs melt if you hit their broadside.

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B-But how am I supposed not to hit the armoured deck in my Benson when the CV is running away ? I've been hunting him since the beginning and now he's immune to my shell hitting his deck ! 

 

Nerf OP CV.

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Just now, AlcatrazNC said:

B-But how am I supposed not to hit the armoured deck in my Benson when the CV is running away ? I've been hunting him since the beginning and now he's immune to my shell hitting his deck ! 

 

Nerf OP CV.

Sad thing is there likely are players out there with that sort of thought process.

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I do hope the rework the Armored decks of the Haku and Midway, not fair they get a solid armor deck but the Audacious its only in the middle over the hanger. This let Midway HE bomb the crap out of it while it was immune to the British HE bombs and now with the HE bomb Drop change the bombs are gonna land all around the armored part and pen even more

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8 minutes ago, Zaydin said:

Sad thing is there likely are players out there with that sort of thought process.

 

OH I know. I've collected Harugumo tears after torping them in their smoke. Their floatty shell couldn't damage my deck, only the superstructure which is why they compained. about how OP it is. 

 

At range CV are well protected when angled because of that armoured deck. Get close or turn broadside and the CV is dead. 

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My personal strategy has been 'go on the forum, complain about the poorly and lazily modeled, inconsistent, illogical and ahistoric decks of Hakuryu and Midway in the hope that WG's devs do something about it'. 

 

Of course hitting the stern section of an armored deck carrier running away at 33-34.5kt is rather easier said than done, and hitting the 19mm, autobouncing area under the island similarly tricky.

 

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3 minutes ago, Carrier_Graf_Zeppelin said:

I do hope the rework the Armored decks of the Haku and Midway, not fair they get a solid armor deck but the Audacious its only in the middle over the hanger. This let Midway HE bomb the crap out of it while it was immune to the British HE bombs and now with the HE bomb Drop change the bombs are gonna land all around the armored part and pen even more

See, a CV shouldn't even be striking another CV unless it's an absolute last resort since your loss of the squad likely won't yield a good return in terms of damage.

3 minutes ago, AlcatrazNC said:

 

OH I know. I've collected Harugumo tears after torping them in their smoke. Their floatty shell couldn't damage my deck, only the superstructure which is why they compained. about how OP it is. 

 

At range CV are well protected when angled because of that armoured deck. Get close or turn broadside and the CV is dead. 

I assume you mean Hakuryu. And I managed to torpedo a Kitakaze twice in his smoke with my Implacable the other night. I couldn't' see him so I was just trying to flush him out. I can only guess he really didn't want to leave his smoke screen.

And yeah, I've been getting shelled by a Minotaur before so I went bow on to him to tank his shells. People really underestimate the effectiveness of the armor on the flight deck for some reason.

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1 minute ago, mofton said:

My personal strategy has been 'go on the forum, complain about the poorly and lazily modeled, inconsistent, illogical and ahistoric decks of Hakuryu and Midway in the hope that WG's devs do something about it'. 

 

Of course hitting the stern section of an armored deck carrier running away at 33-34.5kt is rather easier said than done, and hitting the 19mm, autobouncing area under the island similarly tricky.

 

Historical accuracy went out the window when we have fake Russian ships like the Khab that borderline violate the laws of physics or an almost completely fictional line of Russian BBs that Soviet heavy industry did not have the capability to build.

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6 minutes ago, Zaydin said:

Historical accuracy went out the window when we have fake Russian ships like the Khab that borderline violate the laws of physics or an almost completely fictional line of Russian BBs that Soviet heavy industry did not have the capability to build.

Armor models are one of the few things WG has usually tried to do a good job of, or at least to be relatively internally consistent with.

Hak and Midway get an egregious and unbalanced advantage from their nonsense armor and should be corrected.

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1 hour ago, mofton said:

My personal strategy has been 'go on the forum, complain about the poorly and lazily modeled, inconsistent, illogical and ahistoric decks of Hakuryu and Midway in the hope that WG's devs do something about it'. 

I need to rekindle my torches and sharpen my pitchforks... Haven't done nearly enough of that lately.

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1 hour ago, Zaydin said:

 If you have more health than you can try it but just be prepared for unending air strikes until either you sink or the carrier does.

 

Nice to hear a cv player admitting tier 10 planes are infinite and immune to aa. The other pro cv types keep trying to deny this fact.

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7 minutes ago, monpetitloup said:

Nice to hear a cv player admitting tier 10 planes are infinite and immune to aa. The other pro cv types keep trying to deny this fact.

They aren't infinite nor are they immune to AA. Only someone being intentionally dishonest/hyperbolic would declare they are. It's going to hurt because CVs generally focus on ships that are immediate threats to them, I.E in gun range.

On paper, sure, they are unlimited but anyone who argues that they are unlimited is just plain wrong when they are in fact limited due to regen timers and the 20 minute match length.

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27 minutes ago, Zaydin said:

They aren't infinite nor are they immune to AA. Only someone being intentionally dishonest/hyperbolic would declare they are. It's going to hurt because CVs generally focus on ships that are immediate threats to them, I.E in gun range.

On paper, sure, they are unlimited but anyone who argues that they are unlimited is just plain wrong when they are in fact limited due to regen timers and the 20 minute match length.

To clarify what non cv players mean by unlimited is that RTS version allowed for a cv to be deplaned completely whereas cv rework allows for cvs to keep running planes the whole game. However you want to classify it from that point on doesn’t really matter. 

It’s also safe to say that the more you learn to dodge flak in a cv, the more effective you are in a game in reference to inflicting damage and keeping ships spotted.

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13 minutes ago, pastore123 said:

To clarify what non cv players mean by unlimited is that RTS version allowed for a cv to be deplaned completely whereas cv rework allows for cvs to keep running planes the whole game. However you want to classify it from that point on doesn’t really matter. 

It’s also safe to say that the more you learn to dodge flak in a cv, the more effective you are in a game in reference to inflicting damage and keeping ships spotted.

CV planes are still not unlimited. You can say it all you want but it doesn't make you less wrong.

If matches had no time limits? Sure, then they would be unlimited. But matches have 20 minute time limits which means there is an upper limit to how many planes a CV can regen in a single match which varies from carrier to carrier and depends on the plane types. For example, for the Implacables attack planes, with the skills and mods available to it, takes roughly nine minutes to regen six attack planes and torpedo bombers.

It's impossible to have anything approaching an honest discussion about CVs when the anti-CV side is constantly reusing repeatedly debunked claims like "Planes are unlimited!".

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5 minutes ago, Zaydin said:

CV planes are still not unlimited. You can say it all you want but it doesn't make you less wrong.

If matches had no time limits? Sure, then they would be unlimited. But matches have 20 minute time limits which means there is an upper limit to how many planes a CV can regen in a single match which varies from carrier to carrier and depends on the plane types. For example, for the Implacables attack planes, with the skills and mods available to it, takes roughly nine minutes to regen six attack planes and torpedo bombers.

It's impossible to have anything approaching an honest discussion about CVs when the anti-CV side is constantly reusing repeatedly debunked claims like "Planes are unlimited!".

That’s fine and dandy, but can you ever be deplaned with the cv rework?  

Edit: and honestly, was anything I said wrong? 

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Just now, pastore123 said:

That’s fine and dandy, but can you ever be deplaned with the cv rework? 

You can be functionally deplaned, yes. Launching under strength squads is a desperation measure since the fewer planes there are in a squad means there is less health for the squadron as a whole and is therefore easier to shoot down due to how AA works, not to mention fewer attack runs by the squad in question.

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3 minutes ago, Zaydin said:

You can be functionally deplaned, yes. Launching under strength squads is a desperation measure since the fewer planes there are in a squad means there is less health for the squadron as a whole and is therefore easier to shoot down due to how AA works, not to mention fewer attack runs by the squad in question.

But for the sake of the difference between RTS and rework, it is impossible to not have planes in the rework. Even if it’s 3, you still have planes. You still have spotting, you can actually avoid flak easier due to smaller size.

Is it efficient, no, but if you’re in that situation, you screwed up. Just like in RTS. The only difference being that it is still possible to launch planes throughout the whole match

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12 hours ago, pastore123 said:

But for the sake of the difference between RTS and rework, it is impossible to not have planes in the rework. Even if it’s 3, you still have planes. You still have spotting, you can actually avoid flak easier due to smaller size.

Is it efficient, no, but if you’re in that situation, you screwed up. Just like in RTS. The only difference being that it is still possible to launch planes throughout the whole match

You don't, actually. The way AA works from my rough understanding, based on reading what people more knowledge than me have said is that AA damage is distributed across the whole squadron. The more planes in the squad, the more damage gets distributed and therefore the longer it takes to see planes start falling from the sky. Ergo, fewer planes in the squad means fewer planes to spread the damage and the faster planes start going down.

Flaks accuracy is not affected by the size of the squadron nor is the agility of the squadron improved with fewer planes. A full strength squad of rocket planes from the Midway flies and turns the same as a squad of just three rocket planes.

A CV that has been totally deplaned was more than likely incredibly careless with their squadrons or otherwise the match went horrible wrong for them.

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1 minute ago, Zaydin said:

You can be functionally deplaned, yes. Launching under strength squads is a desperation measure since the fewer planes there are in a squad means there is less health for the squadron as a whole and is therefore easier to shoot down due to how AA works, not to mention fewer attack runs by the squad in question.

You can be functionally deplaned but does it ever happen to a reasonably experienced player?  I very rarely see any tier 8 or 10 CV launch an incomplete squadron even 15+ minutes into the game.  Taking people to task about how planes aren't really unlimited is just quibbling over semantics if the limitations are easily circumvented.  And they are.

CV's almost always have the initiative in whether or not to attack.  You never need to lose planes if you don't feel like it because you can just go hunt weaker AA targets if your reserves are actually being pressured.  This means you just keep flying full squadrons and farming damage nonstop for the entire game, so you can hardly blame people for saying it looks like you have unlimited planes.

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9 minutes ago, Zaydin said:

You don't, actually. The way AA works from my rough understanding, based on reading what people more knowledge than me have said is that AA damage is distrusted across the whole squadron. The more planes in the squad, the more damage gets distributed and therefore the longer it takes to see planes start falling from the sky. Ergo, fewer planes in the squad means fewer planes to spread the damage and the faster planes start going down.

Flaks accuracy is not affected by the size of the squadron nor is the agility of the squadron improved with fewer planes. A full strength squad of rocket planes from the Midway flies and turns the same as a squad of just three rocket planes.

A CV that has been totally deplaned was more than likely incredibly careless with their squadrons or otherwise the match went horrible wrong for them.

When I played in the recent test server, the more flak I was able to avoid, the less my planes were damaged, meaning I didn’t have to worry about losing planes to regen. I’m not sure if you play cvs or not, but if you try them, you’ll see what I’m talking about.

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3 minutes ago, pastore123 said:

When I played in the recent test server, the more flak I was able to avoid, the less my planes were damaged, meaning I didn’t have to worry about losing planes to regen. I’m not sure if you play cvs or not, but if you try them, you’ll see what I’m talking about.

You can dodge flak but you can't dodge every burst. You will lose planes and dodging becomes impossible when on an attack run due to reduced maneuverability and the aim bloom that occurs with the slightest course adjustment at high tiers. Doubly so if you end up in the long or midrange aura of a second ship whose flak is still hitting your ship while the target ships flak or close range AA guns are hitting your planes.

The main thing CVs have to worry about is preserving their aircraft to make sure they can keep doing damage. Preserving planes is why CVs will do cold drops into open ocean or use the slingshot method to try and keep planes intact.

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20 minutes ago, Vaidency said:

You can be functionally deplaned but does it ever happen to a reasonably experienced player?  I very rarely see any tier 8 or 10 CV launch an incomplete squadron even 15+ minutes into the game.  Taking people to task about how planes aren't really unlimited is just quibbling over semantics if the limitations are easily circumvented.  And they are.

CV's almost always have the initiative in whether or not to attack.  You never need to lose planes if you don't feel like it because you can just go hunt weaker AA targets if your reserves are actually being pressured.  This means you just keep flying full squadrons and farming damage nonstop for the entire game, so you can hardly blame people for saying it looks like you have unlimited planes.

Ships can lose gun turrets but realistically how often do most ships actually have them knocked out? It hasn't happened to me in days in any of my surface ships.

So your argument is that experienced players shouldn't be able to avoid damage then? Because then you'll have to nerf angling and change overmatch mechanics for AP shells.


Experienced players of ANY ship type know ways of avoiding damage while maximizing their own, be it angling, knowing what caliber AP shells they can bow tank, constantly altering speed and course to dodge shells, etc.

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15 minutes ago, Zaydin said:

You can dodge flak but you can't dodge every burst. You will lose planes and dodging becomes impossible when on an attack run due to reduced maneuverability and the aim bloom that occurs with the slightest course adjustment at high tiers. Doubly so if you end up in the long or midrange aura of a second ship whose flak is still hitting your ship while the target ships flak or close range AA guns are hitting your planes.

The main thing CVs have to worry about is preserving their aircraft to make sure they can keep doing damage. Preserving planes is why CVs will do cold drops into open ocean or use the slingshot method to try and keep planes intact.

Indeed. Good luck with cvs. 

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Just a tip...you'll never win an argument against an anti-CV person.

 

They'll just make you rage because for them this is nothing, it's a daily thing to not think over matters, proof for that is the usual "facts" such as unlimited planes and unlimited spotting.

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