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jayhawk226

Why? Why? does 2 tier MM exist?

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I keep wondering why MM needs to have 2 tiers? It doesn't make any sense. Maybe in some [edited] it does but not any logic I can think of. I am sure this has been harped on and I am sure there are 100s of posts in all sorts of forums, but I want to hear from you PVE guys and gals because you typically answer questions well and don't seem to be overly critical of [edited] questions. 

I am working on T8 and I have to be in randoms because of campaigns. But I don't really see the reason I need to be one of 2 or 3 T8s per side where every other ship on the map has more range than I do. They have heals and only when playing my RN Cruiser do I have one. Not to mention that T10 matches are lets all hang back and wait on the other team snooze fests. 

It's enough to make me just quit, it's not worth messing with those tiers.

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That is what they settled on and it could be worse a 3 tier spread. Forego the campaigns for awhile and use the tier 8s in co op until you learn how to fight tier 10s.

 

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I am one of the people that like 2 tier MM and I like tier 8 ships.

Most BBs and DDs will tier up good. Cruise play like they are made of glass.

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It is to encourage advancing and it is three tier MM or plus/minus two MM. In alpha and well into closed beta we had four tier MM.

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Regardless of whether you are good or bad, your goal is to be a good sacrifice to the tier X gods so they are happy.

You get a chance to damage them too, so at least you can sell your hide dearly.

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9 minutes ago, CAPTMUDDXX said:

That is what they settled on and it could be worse a 3 tier spread. Forego the campaigns for awhile and use the tier 8s in co op until you learn how to fight tier 10s.

 

I am not sure that Coop teaches you how to  be better in Random, Coop is charge in damn the torpedoes full speed ahead. Random is not aggressive and it's probably that aggressive behavior that gets me killed, followed the DD up to cap, one of 4 T8 per side. CV spots both, I try to help the dd with air cover, get shot from across the map while the rest of the team leaves us alone and steams to the other end of the map. Then even while in my Charles Martel under speed boost, an Atago catches me and keeps me spotted while the CV torps me and every other ship seems to chip me. How is that fun? 

Rant on: I guess all the money I've spent is wasted because I am not sure if it's me but the UI in port is Windows ME bad. It's so bad it locks up. buttons are like guns 2 is 1 and 1 is none. You have to hit them 3-5 times to get them work. But we got another anime ship. GRR, so mad at WG right now. 

 

Thanks for reading my steam release rants.

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Maybe because of queuing time. The matchmaking system would have more players to choose from across three tiers than two, so matches can be made faster. This would be noticeable for early-morning/late-evening players when the server population is lowest.

Not sure if it's possible, but a solution could be a system that activates +1/-1 MM when the server population is highest, which then switches to +2/-2 MM when the population dies down.

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Really, it sounds like you're complaining more about the high tier meta than the matchmaking spread. 

The whole tedious camping thing and abusing ("taking tactical advantage of") range advantage doesn't really get better once you match their tier.

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33 minutes ago, CAPTMUDDXX said:

That is what they settled on and it could be worse a 3 tier spread. Forego the campaigns for awhile and use the tier 8s in co op until you learn how to fight tier 10s.

 

I don't think you can learn how to fight tier 10 ships in a co-op game . You have to learn the tier 10 game play and how they play up there its not only the ships its the players and play style that kill you .

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22 minutes ago, jayhawk226 said:

I am not sure that Coop teaches you how to  be better in Random, Coop is charge in damn the torpedoes full speed ahead. Random is not aggressive and it's probably that aggressive behavior that gets me killed, followed the DD up to cap, one of 4 T8 per side. CV spots both, I try to help the dd with air cover, get shot from across the map while the rest of the team leaves us alone and steams to the other end of the map. Then even while in my Charles Martel under speed boost, an Atago catches me and keeps me spotted while the CV torps me and every other ship seems to chip me. How is that fun? 

Rant on: I guess all the money I've spent is wasted because I am not sure if it's me but the UI in port is Windows ME bad. It's so bad it locks up. buttons are like guns 2 is 1 and 1 is none. You have to hit them 3-5 times to get them work. But we got another anime ship. GRR, so mad at WG right now. 

 

Thanks for reading my steam release rants.

Co-op doesn't prepare you for much in randoms with the play style there. In randoms you have to approach each math depending on whether you are top or bottom tier.

If bottom tier you need to play a little more conservative as gun range or torp range will be less than the higher tiers. Then of course the health pool is also much different and as you noted many ships above T8 have a heal so they can extend their lives if they use them smartly.

The best bet is not to get away from the main force and get isolated. That's near certain death for a lot of T8s. You also want to use any advantages your particular ship may have such as going dark if you have good concealment, shooting over islands if you gun arcs allow, etc.

The longer you remain in battle the greatly increases your chances of having a decent match.

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3 minutes ago, clammboy said:

I don't think you can learn how to fight tier 10 ships in a co-op game . You have to learn the tier 10 game play and how they play up there its not only the ships its the players and play style that kill you .

No what you have to learn is the tier 10 PvP meta of hiding behind rocks and running away when you take fire. That is the only difference. Most of your bot fights are in open water so you learn to fire and maneuver to position your ship were you take the least damage. That kind of fighting only occurs in PvP when the red team has the upper hand is attacking the stragglers. 

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2 minutes ago, Taylor3006 said:

No what you have to learn is the tier 10 PvP meta of hiding behind rocks and running away when you take fire

Yes and there all really good at hiding behind islands and smoke and farming you to death plus there's more ships and you cant be aggressive like in co-op or they focus fire you to death .

I wish the style of play was somewhere between the two that would be cool controlled aggression but alas Tier 10 is usually slow and nobody wants to make the first move .

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15 minutes ago, clammboy said:

I don't think you can learn how to fight tier 10 ships in a co-op game . You have to learn the tier 10 game play and how they play up there its not only the ships its the players and play style that kill you .

You can learn how to fight in the first place, however. I took Mo into co-op about 200 times or so, and after I was done I had gained a far, far better understanding of BBs than ever before. I just had to figure out tactics to apply it and I was golden.

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5 minutes ago, Shoggoth_pinup said:

You can learn how to fight in the first place, however. I took Mo into co-op about 200 times or so, and after I was done I had gained a far, far better understanding of BBs than ever before. I just had to figure out tactics to apply it and I was golden.

No doubt I totally agree I never did that and got my butt kicked and my win rate so bad I cant get it back to 50% . But you must have got beat up when you first went up there after playing 200 games in co-op no or were you good to go .

Edited by clammboy

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1 hour ago, jayhawk226 said:

I keep wondering why MM needs to have 2 tiers? It doesn't make any sense. Maybe in some demented Russian brain it does but not any logic I can think of. I am sure this has been harped on and I am sure there are 100s of posts in all sorts of forums, but I want to hear from you PVE guys and gals because you typically answer questions well and don't seem to be overly critical of dumb questions. 

I am working on T8 and I have to be in randoms because of campaigns. But I don't really see the reason I need to be one of 2 or 3 T8s per side where every other ship on the map has more range than I do. They have heals and only when playing my RN Cruiser do I have one. Not to mention that T10 matches are lets all hang back and wait on the other team snooze fests. 

It's enough to make me just quit, it's not worth messing with those tiers.

IMO its not MM... Its ships being over capable, capacity to deal more DMG then ships against have HP for its tier, and ships with armor layout allows it to absorb/negate DMG of the ships it face in the tier.

When these points above are compromised. Then 2 tier MM become less fun and unsustainable.

 

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1 hour ago, jayhawk226 said:

I keep wondering why MM needs to have 2 tiers? It doesn't make any sense. Maybe in some demented Russian brain it does but not any logic I can think of. I am sure this has been harped on and I am sure there are 100s of posts in all sorts of forums, but I want to hear from you PVE guys and gals because you typically answer questions well and don't seem to be overly critical of dumb questions. 

I am working on T8 and I have to be in randoms because of campaigns. But I don't really see the reason I need to be one of 2 or 3 T8s per side where every other ship on the map has more range than I do. They have heals and only when playing my RN Cruiser do I have one. Not to mention that T10 matches are lets all hang back and wait on the other team snooze fests. 

It's enough to make me just quit, it's not worth messing with those tiers.

SO insulting Russians is the answer to getting your answer?  Why is it people who complain immediately want to bash Russians?  You think it would be any better is the company was based in Italy? or the US, or anywhere else?  No it wouldn't.  Get over yourself.

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57 minutes ago, clammboy said:

Yes and there all really good at hiding behind islands and smoke and farming you to death plus there's more ships and you cant be aggressive like in co-op or they focus fire you to death .

I wish the style of play was somewhere between the two that would be cool controlled aggression but alas Tier 10 is usually slow and nobody wants to make the first move .

That is because tier 10s have the range and can dish out damage. The mechanics of the game punish aggressive players. You add the silly effects like smoke/fire/water spouts/AA and it just blinds you in combat so it isn't worth getting in close. Playing the game before the smoke/fire graphic enhancement was far more fun. Wargaming is killing gameplay for the sake of graphics and it is stupid. The newest iteration of this is the new AA/flak graphics that is distracting and causes lag in the game. 

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50 minutes ago, clammboy said:

No doubt I totally agree I never did that and got my butt kicked and my win rate so bad I cant get it back to 50% . But you must have got beat up when you first went up there after playing 200 games in co-op no or were you good to go .

The main thing was that I played 200 games as a T9 ship, meaning I faced everything in that spread. While the tactics weren't there, I learned how to kill the ships I would see, from pinching Yamato's rosy cheeks, to citting a cruiser down the nose, and even how best to deal with a GK or Conq in a brawl. That said, I knew well to seperate the tactics I use between co-op and random battle, as I was no stranger to co-op.

As such, my tactics hardly changed from before that, at least at first. In the long term, of course they changed, as I improved, but the important thing is to keep random and co-op seperate in one's mind. Even today I play both, and while I'm a little rusty in co-op, I can still manage those fairly good base xp carry games when my team needs them. Just had one of those games today, which, while not my best by a long shot, still saw a badly outnumbered co-op game eventually become a win.

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+-2 tier is because this game is made for Wg to gain money. Nothing again this.

People see when they meet a + 2 enemy....things will not be good so you want to have the best ships...tier 10

To go to tier 10 you must pay for maintenance of ships.

You need: perma camo or premium time or some premium ships to gain silver.

So you must spend money.

This is it.....or stay at tier 4 :Smile_trollface:

Regards.

 

I know you can gain money at tier 6/7...but when you meet tier 9 in tier 7......

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54 minutes ago, Mikebello said:

+-2 tier is because this game is made for Wg to gain money. Nothing again this.

People see when they meet a + 2 enemy....things will not be good so you want to have the best ships...tier 10

To go to tier 10 you must pay for maintenance of ships.

You need: perma camo or premium time or some premium ships to gain silver.

So you must spend money.

This is it.....or stay at tier 4 :Smile_trollface:

Regards.

 

I know you can gain money at tier 6/7...but when you meet tier 9 in tier 7......

Well at least they made the recent positive change to buff exp earnings when shooting at higher tier ships.

Had a so-so game that didn't seem all that special in my Richy.  I was top of the scoreboard with 603exp.    Huh, what,  that was unexpected.  (I thought I had taken a cap as well that game,  but I didn't get it.  - just that raw 93k dmg I did all game.)

30K @ -Cleveland,    12K @ -Gearing,   28K @ -Richy,  20K @ -GK

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At least it seems very rewarding if you can contribute as a bottom tier.  A really nice update from WG.   With these surprising numbers just in co-op,  must be really noticeable in PVP if you pull close to your weight.   Or play the objectives well.

Either there is something about the Richy or I need to play more T8s, and hope to get into T10 games.  Some more stats.

617exp,  7 cap defense ribbons, 1 full captured.   (almost double the exp of the each person on the team.  Cap points may be skewing it this time)  From doing 57K damage that match.

 

20K dmg @ - Z52,   9K dmg @ -Yamato,    28K dmg @ -IOWA

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On 5/13/2019 at 5:37 PM, jayhawk226 said:

Honestly, I am not opposed to the answer being I just suck.

This is co-op.  We have things like lots of players having 97% Win Rates in Co-op.  This isn't hard.

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