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Dr_Citadel

How to adapt to the CV changes?

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I'm thinking about how I will continue to play CV after nerfing them. If they become useless at hunting and destroying DDs by taking all round to sink one then what does the CV do? I assume at this point its just farming BB damage? Its sure as heck not going to be harassing AA cruisers like Desmoines, Worcester, Minotaur or Grozovoi. CVs only get 1.5 squadrons per round of each rockets, bombs or torps. Those boats will eat a whole squadron in about 5 seconds.

 

Any thoughts on how this will play out will be appreciated. 

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Stop playing util no one play with and they going need buff again.

Then you can enjoy a bit util people cry and they nerf it again for no one play with.

Then repeat.

 

This is how you can enjoy cvs on wows sinse closed beta.

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Still got rockets,  those haven't been nerfed too much against DD's.  Level bombing is unaffected by this change too and that tends to be reliable,  if small,  damage.  The 'nerf' to launch time will wind up being a net boon,  since it will allow DD's to be further separated from their covering AA.  Can't wait to hear them screech about that.

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5 minutes ago, HyenaHiena said:

Stop playing util no one play with and they going need buff again.

Then you can enjoy a bit util people cry and they nerf it again for no one play with.

Then repeat.

 

This is how you can enjoy cvs on wows sinse closed beta.

^ this. Stop wasting your time on a class which is utterly useless at the moment.

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Pretty early to speculate at this point how it will play & short on firm details , but it certainly does seem like all that's being discussed is going to be a pretty substantial nerf?    I wouldn't be surprised  if they aren't  just going to get hammered to the point that they become unpopular to play again...  pretty much each one of these mechanic "fixes" seems like it is going to make them actually harder to learn to play...which just starts putting us right back where we were?   

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28 minutes ago, RA6E_ said:

Pretty early to speculate at this point how it will play & short on firm details , but it certainly does seem like all that's being discussed is going to be a pretty substantial nerf?    I wouldn't be surprised  if they aren't  just going to get hammered to the point that they become unpopular to play again...  pretty much each one of these mechanic "fixes" seems like it is going to make them actually harder to learn to play...which just starts putting us right back where we were?   

The engine boost is going to be what drives more average CV players away. You just cannot force planes to spend more time in the strong continual AA damage and expect the average players to want to learn how to deal with it. You are going to see a lot more CV players stop playing them all together with this one. Especially CVs who have lowered tier planes such as Kaga. Uptiering a Kaga already sucks but is manageable.  Uptier with slower planes to boot is going to really hurt Kaga.

The HEDB change is needed and is not just a straight nerf- more of a side grade. It will help DDs but has the potential to become far more dangerous on larger ships since you will be dropping the bombs across more area and more area will give you better alpha and more fires.

The launch delay is probably a wash up until T10. It will hurt a little but you will see ships pushed in closer than before so your result should be roughly the same. This change will keep you from farming the unfortunate souls who didn't get a favorable spawn.

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36 minutes ago, RA6E_ said:

Pretty early to speculate at this point how it will play & short on firm details , but it certainly does seem like all that's being discussed is going to be a pretty substantial nerf?    I wouldn't be surprised  if they aren't  just going to get hammered to the point that they become unpopular to play again...  pretty much each one of these mechanic "fixes" seems like it is going to make them actually harder to learn to play...which just starts putting us right back where we were?   

I would honestly be ok with that.

Whether only a few people play them or not, I can take out my T6 CVs and enjoy driving the planes around for most of the match, instead of having a unicum put the kibosh on an RTS-lite game that I was only playing because I forgot how boring it was.

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57 minutes ago, HyenaHiena said:

Stop playing util no one play with and they going need buff again.

Then you can enjoy a bit util people cry and they nerf it again for no one play with.

Then repeat.

 

This is how you can enjoy cvs on wows sinse closed beta.

This is absolutely true. They did that first AA boost after the rework and every CV just about quit. They quickly changed it back. It is impossible at this point to do any type of strike without losing aircraft. There is no counterplay, unironically, as others ask for counterplay to the CV. Aside from the endless flak and unavoidable damage, you have weather hindering aim, AA screwing aim, almost unattackable DDs, etc etc.

 

Edited by _Caliph_
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The higher DB drop height is a nerf but being able to maneuver while in the dive without trashing the aim is a buff. The main reason I end up dropping from mast height is the aiming point finally moved onto the ship so many of us will have to adjust our initial aiming point.

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4 minutes ago, BrushWolf said:

The higher DB drop height is a nerf but being able to maneuver while in the dive without trashing the aim is a buff. The main reason I end up dropping from mast height is the aiming point finally moved onto the ship so many of us will have to adjust our initial aiming point.

In the end this "buff" is not matter sinse the targer can move away from your "derp" bombs.

I bet this is going reduce A LOT the dmg from bombs sinse you going hit less bombs and depends even more from rng.

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50 minutes ago, Palladia said:

Still got rockets,  those haven't been nerfed too much against DD's.  Level bombing is unaffected by this change too and that tends to be reliable,  if small,  damage.  The 'nerf' to launch time will wind up being a net boon,  since it will allow DD's to be further separated from their covering AA.  Can't wait to hear them screech about that.

So many people keep saying the delayed launch times is a boon.  It is not.  You  can delay launching planes yourself.  All this does is remove the ability to launch early.  Removal of a tactical choice is just a nerf.  I rarher doubt it will have much effect other than making CV play a bit more annoying, but time will tell.

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3 minutes ago, Airacobra said:

So many people keep saying the delayed launch times is a boon.  It is not.  You  can delay launching planes yourself.  All this does is remove the ability to launch early.  Removal of a tactical choice is just a nerf.  I rarher doubt it will have much effect other than making CV play a bit more annoying, but time will tell.

It isn't so much a boon as removing the implied responsibility of early scouting. Now you can let others do it and make the first attack securely without the risk of AA ambushing.

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Just go back to surface ships and everything will be okay :Smile_Default:

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1 hour ago, RA6E_ said:

Pretty early to speculate at this point how it will play & short on firm details , but it certainly does seem like all that's being discussed is going to be a pretty substantial nerf?    I wouldn't be surprised  if they aren't  just going to get hammered to the point that they become unpopular to play again...  pretty much each one of these mechanic "fixes" seems like it is going to make them actually harder to learn to play...which just starts putting us right back where we were?   

If that was what they wanted they could have left the first AA buff after the rework as all but a handful had quit. They are just shuckin' and jivin' offbeat to the rhythm to try and placate the whingers. The delay on flights, while a poor gameplay mechanic as a CV has no need to maneuver without having intel, does create a more level playing field on the damage race.

There is a real CV vs CV imbalance with IJN versus the others though that the HE dive bomber issue causes. For starters when a IJN is deplaned of rockets it has nothing to attack DDs with where the others can still use those bombs reliably. The slightly faster torpedoes are not better as the 4 pack has too much arming time to ever be worth anything and the 2 pack is a 2 pack. The AP bombs are only better if the target isn't a DD and only if you can guess as to when the drop should be made to penetrate and hit the citadel.

Edited by _Caliph_

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With the engine boost nerf, it'll just become fashionable--as I already do--for CV players to reduce their squadron size after flight by attacking empty ocean, thus ensuring they do not get deplaned nor lose many planes to AA.

By doing this in Midway and Haku and Impalacable, it's a necessary tactic: plane regen time is punishing.

Of course, WG could simply give option for CV to launch less-than-full squadrons at start, but doubtful.

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they simply won't come to the conclusion that a system which pits player controlled squadrons against AI controlled flak simply can't ever BE balanced

how do I "skillfully" click on a sector? How do I "skillfully" wipe 25.5k off a dude still in spawn? these are the questions that Wargaming does not like to be asked

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Am saying this as a DD player even during this time.

The CV launch delay won't play a role on the long run. Even with the delay at tier X by the time a DD enters a cap, by the time a CV will be able to reach the cap the timer will be halfway done. 

This just has the CV twiddle it's thumbs, just an annoyance. 

I expect DDs that think suddenly all is well will be in for a nasty surprise.

Edited by warheart1992

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Gearing and Kidd are still playable with AA builds. Grozovoi, even with DFAA doesn't scare torps away. If anything, it's one of the easier DDs to torp due to it's turning circle.

British DDs are mostly playable since they have so many smoke charges and excellent turning circle/speed but AA is lacking.

To keep things fair, DDs need the AA buff that the Yamato got.... which hardly anyone was asking for. 

Other than that, I have been playing mid-tier cruisers like Haida, Boise and Atlanta and avoiding high tier play. Many of my tier 6-7 games have had 0-1 CVs lately, so maybe now that RU BBs are the new hotness and people are getting bored with CVs, DDs will come back.

Edited by FiveStarMojo

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I don't feel the delayed launch is going to help anyone in the long run.  They are also nerfing the Engine boost.  Those two things, although may not seem like much, may have a bigger impact on the CV's.

It doesn't matter.  As long as CV's are able to scratch the paint on any surface ship, the anti-CV haters will continue to claim the class is broken.

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14 minutes ago, FiveStarMojo said:

Gearing and Kidd are still playable with AA builds. Grozovoi, even with DFAA doesn't scare torps away. If anything, it's one of the easier DDs to torp due to it's turning circle.

British DDs are mostly playable since they have so many smoke charges and excellent turning circle/speed but AA is lacking.

What is your T7 Choice?  Jervis, Sims, or other?

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1 minute ago, SJ_Sailer said:

What is your T7 Choice?  Jervis, Sims, or other?

Currently the Haida since the smoke puffs make it hard for people to blind fire and very hard for CVs to spot. It has decent AA for a DD to boot and with IHFE, it shreds most other tier 8 DDs when you need it to. 

Mainly, I am grinding it for a 19 point commander and because it's similar to the Cossack which I just got an elite commander on.

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24 minutes ago, FiveStarMojo said:

Gearing and Kidd are still playable with AA builds. Grozovoi, even with DFAA doesn't scare torps away. If anything, it's one of the easier DDs to torp due to it's turning circle.

British DDs are mostly playable since they have so many smoke charges and excellent turning circle/speed but AA is lacking.

To keep things fair, DDs need the AA buff that the Yamato got.... which hardly anyone was asking for. 

Other than that, I have been playing mid-tier cruisers like Haida, Boise and Atlanta and avoiding high tier play. Many of my tier 6-7 games have had 0-1 CVs lately, so maybe now that RU BBs are the new hotness and people are getting bored with CVs, DDs will come back.

They never left. I have 4 almost every game.

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Just now, jags_domain said:

They never left. I have 4 almost every game.

I'm playing mid-tiers and only 6-8 battles on weekdays, so maybe I have been lucky. I did play 11 battles on Sunday (0-1 CVs) and won most of them but that's the most I have played in a while.

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The launch time nerf is going to do nothing for early game scouting, since ships are barely in position by the 19 minute mark. It'll give them more time to clump up, which is good for those poor saps that get the far spawns. I'll spend the time by drawing pentagrams with the autopilot.

Engine boost nerf is going to make things harder, but not impossible. Gonna suck for those with slow planes though. Might make rocket strikes against DDs very difficult, will have to test it live.

HE DB change was absolutely needed. They were pure cheese. I like the direction they went in, though will have to test to see if they are still too consistent.

All the rest of the changes sound great, but the AA sector rework is going to be one of the most meaningful ones. Hope they can make something good out of it.

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