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Th3KrimzonD3mon

Yukikaze, Yay or Nay?

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I've been looking her over, and those torps make me want her. Yes, they're 8km, however, Kag's are only 10km, both are either at or within radar range most of the time when launching torps anyway, so I don't see radar as being a deal breaker.

 

Those torps, though, with the module and TAE, they reload super fast, they go super fast, and they hit super hard.

 

So, hit me, pros, cons, general thoughts from those who have or may have played it. Go!

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From what I've read and seen in CC's videos (I do not have it), it is a worse Kagero at T8. Has no speed boost and no AA. - Has the meh F3 torps.

I pass. Not interested.

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9 minutes ago, alexf24 said:

From what I've read and seen in CC's videos (I do not have it), it is a worse Kagero at T8. Has no speed boost and no AA. - Has the meh F3 torps.

I pass. Not interested.

No speed boost? So it only has 2 consumables?

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Bear in mind that the ship is called 'AL Yukikaze', which indicates that a normal non-AL version may come out later, maybe post-collaboration. Same with AL Montpelier. So the first question is do you want the anime version, or wait? And do you want to pay money for what is literally a Kagero with F3 torps and no TRB? It's identical except for those two things.

Personally having played Kagero, Harekaze, Yukikaze, and Asashio, I personally stand by my claim that Kagero and Asashio are better. So is Harekaze though she may not be as directly comparable. Yes, it is funny to sneak up to 5.5km of a BB with Yukikaze and instant them in the face with F3 torps. But Kagero can pull that trick just as well. however consider how often Yukikaze will be able to do that in a world where radar, hydro, 2 CV games exist, and where you will get a lot of bottom tier games?  I've definitely had instances where I wish I had an extra 2km of range. Playing Yukikaze you will encounter situations where 8km is just not enough to get that red BB that's 8.1km away and has a radar cruiser uncomfortably near by. Kagero is simply more flexible. And regarding Asashio, although Yukikaze can hit other things with F3 torps, like DDs in smoke, in practice your main targets will be BBs. Asashio simply does the job of killing BBs far better, and can do it more safely.

 

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1 minute ago, Th3KrimzonD3mon said:

No speed boost? So it only has 2 consumables?

It does. Speed boost, repair, smoke.

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15 minutes ago, alexf24 said:

From what I've read and seen in CC's videos (I do not have it), it is a worse Kagero at T8. Has no speed boost and no AA. - Has the meh F3 torps.

I pass. Not interested.

They put the speed boost back on it.

I think it might be an amusing boat for tier 8 ranked if we get thst again.

Edited by SgtBeltfed

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I say NAY, unless you like living on the edge, then I'd say go ahead. But as she is currently, Yukikaze is basically a low-effort, lazy cash-grab attempt by WG, and straight-up inferior to Kagero in all respects. Even worse when compared to the previous Collaboration DD that was also based off of Kagero.

Compared to Kagero:

  • Exact same Permacamo bonuses.
  • Restricted to 8km torpedoes; practically requires willingly diving into Hydro and Radar-heavy zones.
  • No TRB option.
  • No other changes or unique playstyle elements to warrant burning 50 USD on her.
  • Kagero is practically free, and her Permacamo is cheaper too.

The only "advantage" Yukikaze has currently is being another IJN DD trainer, though Asashio will also do perfectly fine as an IJN DD trainer. Asashio also has slightly better gunnery to offset her BB/CV-only DWTs, while Yukikaze just shares the same performance as Kagero. Asashio also has separate TRB, Speed Boost, and Smoke as well.


Compared to Harekaze (if you have her from the HSF Collaboration):

  • No effort put into her camouflage skin, unlike efforts put into Harekaze's model, or the AL Models in the Mobile version.
  • No effort to make her just unique enough to purchase. Not even a token separate TRB, or a more novel non-Halloween variant of the Lock-On Jammer consumable. Harekaze at least has 2 alternate gun options.
  • No extra camouflage bonus, and no Non-Collaboration Camouflage alternative for those who hate the Collab but still want the ship. Harekaze at least had both a +100% FXP Bonus on the HSF and HSF Standard Camouflage, or a +50% CXP Bonus on the Isoroku Camouflage.
    • sVqL8hp.jpg

WG would have to at least give her either:

  • A Lock-On Jammer type consumable in a separate slot
    • Either prevents lock on for 30s or just nerfs enemy dispersion (as if they were blind-firing) while they're locked on to her for 30s
  • Or a Neustrashimy-style Repair Party in a separate slot

To make her worth anything over a Kagero (or Harekaze, for those who bought her).

Edited by YamatoA150
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Notser made a video about this ship and it offer a somewhat different gameplay. You do not play her like an other torpedo boat, but you use your guns and take BFT and the turret rotation skills to make her a somewhat gunboat with high stealth and good torpedo at close range. The main issue is not really radar and plane (she suffer as much as other IJN DD) but being on the offensive side : she is good if the enemy comes to her, but will struggle running after fleeing enemies.

 

And if tier 8 is a bad tier, it still offer some game against tier 6, and tier 6 BB will suffer against her.... well any tier 7-6 will suffer against her.

 

On the lack of TRB: it is not dramatic. With F3 torp, you will more often be in the face of the enemy and smoke will become more valuable than an other set of torpedo. And in this CV meta, one can argue that smoke is globally better than TRB.

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If you want something of similar flavor, play the Yug w/ F3 torps. On a full stealth build, you'll give up 0.15km concealment but gain at least a full second on faster rotating guns. Yug's slightly faster but has a slightly slower rudder shift. Yug also has slightly better AA and a bit more hp.

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Just now, Y_Nagato said:

On the lack of TRB: it is not dramatic. With F3 torp, you will more often be in the face of the enemy and smoke will become more valuable than an other set of torpedo. And in this CV meta, one can argue that smoke is globally better than TRB.

It can be very dramatic in the right circumstances.

last night in my Asashio I got within range of an full health enemy saipan undetected, and launched torps ahead of the CV. However the Saipan ran into an island and those all missed. I was able to TRB another set of torps, and instant kill the Saipan whilst he was reversing. Yukikaze does not have that option at all, and had I been using Yuki I probably would have lost that match.

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20 minutes ago, Super_Dreadnought said:

Bear in mind that the ship is called 'AL Yukikaze', which indicates that a normal non-AL version may come out later, maybe post-collaboration. Same with AL Montpelier. So the first question is do you want the anime version, or wait?

It seems like a waste of effort to split off a non-AL version when the Collaboration is expected to last through 2019 and possibly even 2020 (if taking loose statements on both parties involved as confirmation). Moreso considering that both Harekaze and HSF Spee were also tagged "HSF Harekaze" and "HSF Graf Spee" respectively, but both came with a non-Collab Camouflage option for those who hated the Collaboration but liked the ships. Which I might add, ended up with the same bonuses as the Collaboration version. Harekaze also got a second Collaboration skin with a slightly different bonus.

Then again, with the lack of any Collab-exclusive bonuses on Harekaze and Spee and the lack of a non-Collab camouflage option, it's possible that WG will attempt to sell a non-AL Yukikaze and Montpelier later on. That's assuming they even make much off these two, given the distinct lack of effort and sheer laziness WG put into both Premiums.

 

Edited by YamatoA150

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1 minute ago, YamatoA150 said:

It seems like a waste of effort to split off a non AL version when the Collaboration is expected to last through 2019 and possibly even 2020 (if taking loose statements on both parties involved as confirmation). Moreso considering that both Harekaze and HSF Spee were also tagged "HSF Harekaze" and "HSF Graf Spee" respectively, but both came with a non-Collab Camouflage option for those who hated the Collaboration but liked the ships. Which I might add, ended up with the same bonuses as the Collaboration version. Harekaze also got a second Collaboration skin with a slightly different bonus.

Then again, with the lack of any Collab-exclusive bonuses on Harekaze and Spee and the lack of a non-Collab camouflage option, it's possible that WG will attempt to sell a non-AL Yukikaze and Montpelier later on. That's assuming they even make much off these two, given the distinct lack of effort and sheer laziness WG put into both Premiums.

 

There's no waste of effort for them. It would be literally the same thing without the captain and a different perma camo. I guess WG figured that they can make more money with seperate versions. Remember that there are people here who are vehemently hostile to anything even remotely associated with anime, and would definitely refuse to buy AL Yukikaze but would buy a 100% non anime ship instead. 

Only WG can know why they are apparently splitting them, but also consider that HSF Harekaze and HSF Graf Spee having 2 camos are an exception rather than the rule. The Lima ships, Black ships, Kamikaze R and Fujin are all clones with one camo.

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17 minutes ago, Super_Dreadnought said:

It can be very dramatic in the right circumstances.

last night in my Asashio I got within range of an full health enemy saipan undetected, and launched torps ahead of the CV. However the Saipan ran into an island and those all missed. I was able to TRB another set of torps, and instant kill the Saipan whilst he was reversing. Yukikaze does not have that option at all, and had I been using Yuki I probably would have lost that match.

In that situation, maybe. But if the CV start to hunt you in an IJN DD, smoke becomes one of your few defensive option, and with 8 km torps you need more that option than a TRB. Especially with the speed of the F3 torpedo that will let few room to change course and doge them. 

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28 minutes ago, Y_Nagato said:

Notser made a video about this ship and it offer a somewhat different gameplay. You do not play her like an other torpedo boat, but you use your guns and take BFT and the turret rotation skills to make her a somewhat gunboat with high stealth and good torpedo at close range. The main issue is not really radar and plane (she suffer as much as other IJN DD) but being on the offensive side : she is good if the enemy comes to her, but will struggle running after fleeing enemies.

 

And if tier 8 is a bad tier, it still offer some game against tier 6, and tier 6 BB will suffer against her.... well any tier 7-6 will suffer against her.

 

On the lack of TRB: it is not dramatic. With F3 torp, you will more often be in the face of the enemy and smoke will become more valuable than an other set of torpedo. And in this CV meta, one can argue that smoke is globally better than TRB.

You can do that exact style with Kagero too. It's stats are identical except for the torpedos and Kagero's ability to mount TRB. 

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1 hour ago, Th3KrimzonD3mon said:

No speed boost? So it only has 2 consumables?

She has a standard speed boost. The no speed boost version is her early development version. 

F3 torpedoes in T8 now can surprise lots of people,  especially DD and those T6-7 ships, I was printing devastating strike in her(more dev than games played) 

You can definitely make her work if you're comfortable at Kagero family. She is just more of a dance on knifes. Extra attention to radar and airplanes are the key because you got tost if they catch you before you launch your F3 torpedoes. But if you can bait or somehow keeping yourself alive under radar, you can be a nightmare for those radar ships when radars CD because your torpedoes can get to them fast enough before the next radar. 

Ambushing play also very fun, you are the king of corner with F3 torpedoes. 

Her guns thought, need some attention, because I almost certain that WG neff it's segma compare to her sister ships. 

Edit

I saw some say she is a worse Kagero. After 30 games I can say it certainly not. 9.4km guns and 8km torpedoes all force you to be more aggressive to success and her tool kit if prefect for that. 8km torpedoes in onr side makes you take more risk, but in the other hand I got 10% torpedoes hit rate which is not normal in high tier games. Shorter range and high speed combine means your torpedoes reach the maximum range about 30s faster in a tighter formation which is not to be under estimate, plus you probably will not even try if you have better range because of the high risk. 9.4km guys also have the same effect, you need to get close to make them reliable, but if you can win that fight, you can disengage easier because of that short range. 

"Try your luck! "  This is the theme of this little boat.

Edited by sapient007
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1 minute ago, Y_Nagato said:

In that situation, maybe. But if the CV start to hunt you in an IJN DD, smoke becomes one of your few defensive option, and with 8 km torps you need more that option than a TRB. Especially with the speed of the F3 torpedo that will let few room to change course and doge them. 

Oh believe me, ships can and will dodge those F3s if they actively maneuver, unless it's point blank range. I'm not saying that smoke doesn't have it's uses, but not having that TRB option does have a dramatic effect on average damage, and closes off a number of avenues.

CVs still have ways to hunt DDs even with smoke. With the new CV system they can get 3 or 4 tries to torp smoke, set a fighter above a DD, or just hover overhead until the DD either runs out of smoke time or comes out. Smoke has it's utility and so does TRB, but Yukikaze simply has no choice in the matter. Kagero and Harekaze can pick between them, Asashio has both. Yukikaze is just stuck cursing during the times when it really needed a torp wall, or another set of torps because the first set missed.

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19 minutes ago, Super_Dreadnought said:

There's no waste of effort for them. It would be literally the same thing without the captain and a different perma camo. I guess WG figured that they can make more money with seperate versions. Remember that there are people here who are vehemently hostile to anything even remotely associated with anime, and would definitely refuse to buy AL Yukikaze but would buy a 100% non anime ship instead. 

Only WG can know why they are apparently splitting them, but also consider that HSF Harekaze and HSF Graf Spee having 2 camos are an exception rather than the rule. The Lima ships, Black ships, Kamikaze R and Fujin are all clones with one camo.

How do we even know if/when they will split them off? They're trying to farm this Collab for $$$ with the least and laziest amount of effort involved. And given that the Collab is supposed to run through 2019, WG will want to try and milk every last cent before releasing a non-Collab version, if at all (recall that regular Spee was never for sale for the entire duration of the HSF Collab, even after sales plateaued). There's also the fact that it's been steadily spreading around both in game and out that Yukikaze sucks and Montpelier is also going to suck once her 10km Radar range is nerfed (and a number of day-1 buyers for Montpelier have since put in their refund requests), so it makes it even less likely to sell, despite not being as a non-Collab ship.

 

40 minutes ago, Y_Nagato said:

Notser made a video about this ship and it offer a somewhat different gameplay. You do not play her like an other torpedo boat, but you use your guns and take BFT and the turret rotation skills to make her a somewhat gunboat with high stealth and good torpedo at close range. The main issue is not really radar and plane (she suffer as much as other IJN DD) but being on the offensive side : she is good if the enemy comes to her, but will struggle running after fleeing enemies.

 

And if tier 8 is a bad tier, it still offer some game against tier 6, and tier 6 BB will suffer against her.... well any tier 7-6 will suffer against her.

 

On the lack of TRB: it is not dramatic. With F3 torp, you will more often be in the face of the enemy and smoke will become more valuable than an other set of torpedo. And in this CV meta, one can argue that smoke is globally better than TRB.

Except if that's going to be how it's played, Asashio will make for a much better stopgap "Gunboat DD" with stealth, and only slightly losing out in torpedo effectiveness (which is less of an issue right now with VMF BBs on the horizon).

And like another said, Kagero can do the exact same thing but better.

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2 minutes ago, YamatoA150 said:

less of an issue right now with VMF BBs on the horizon

So long as your cruiser and destroyer team-mates know not to :etc_swear: their pants in fear when you fire directly through them, I foresee some pretty high-score matches being set by Asashios in the next month or two. Then we will see just how well that limited DCP thing really works.

Expect salt from people who paid for doubloons and spammed Russian premium containers solely to get their unlocks and convert FXP for the leap to Tier 10. Almost makes me want to buy Asashio to add to their misery. Is that cruel? :Smile_trollface:

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8 minutes ago, Ensign_Cthulhu said:

So long as your cruiser and destroyer team-mates know not to :etc_swear: their pants in fear when you fire directly through them, I foresee some pretty high-score matches being set by Asashios in the next month or two. Then we will see just how well that limited DCP thing really works.

Expect salt from people who paid for doubloons and spammed Russian premium containers solely to get their unlocks and convert FXP for the leap to Tier 10. Almost makes me want to buy Asashio to add to their misery. Is that cruel? :Smile_trollface:

It's perfectly valid. It's also why I'm training my VMF BB captains now via Operations instead of in Randoms, and I'll just wait for the initial rush to die out.

In the meantime, I might jump back into DDs since CVs are more likely to farm the VMF BBs for damage, or just bring cruisers and go to town on everything.

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So, the majority opinion so far is she's a waste of the cash. After hearing you guys out, I'm pretty much in agreement, though I would like to see more from people who've actually played her. :)

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They're afraid of releasing overpowered premiums due to the backlash they got for trying to nerf Guilio Cesare, and so the pendulum has swung out of control the other way and they're nervously releasing intentionally underpowered premiums hoping that attaching famous names will make up the difference in sales lost to it being complete trash.

 

I say nay. Don't support this practice.

 

The fact they even considered nerfing GC should be a Nay for ever spending money on this company again but I know many people aren't as strict as me on this.

Edited by KiyoSenkan
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1 minute ago, KiyoSenkan said:

They're afraid of releasing overpowered premiums due to the backlash they got for trying to nerf Guilio Cesare, and so the pendulum has swung out of control the other way and they're nervously releasing intentionally underpowered premiums hoping that attaching famous names will make up the difference in sales lost to it being complete trash.

 

I say nay. Don't support this practice.

 

The fact they even considered nerfing GC should be a Nay for ever spending money on this company again but I know many people aren't as strict as me on this.

It's more because IJN premiums are not allowed to be interesting than anything else. Everything has to either be a downtiered or nerfed version of another ship, Atago aside.

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3 minutes ago, Tekina_ said:

It's more because IJN premiums are not allowed to be interesting than anything else. Everything has to either be a downtiered or nerfed version of another ship, Atago aside.

As much as I hate this, most of the ships generated through this downtiered/nerfed sister ship practice aren't bad. Yuudachi, Yahagi, and Yukikaze are undeniably garbage. Azuma isn't a famous name, but is also bad, despite being one of those stupid SuperCruisers that WG is so in love with for tier 10 lately.

 

You don't earn nicknames like "The Unsinkable Lucky Ship" or "The Nightmare of Solomon" for sucking at combat.

 

They got spooked and I'd expect the next year or so of premiums to be bad all around, the only exceptions will probably be Russian.

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4 hours ago, YamatoA150 said:

How do we even know if/when they will split them off? They're trying to farm this Collab for $$$ with the least and laziest amount of effort involved. And given that the Collab is supposed to run through 2019, WG will want to try and milk every last cent before releasing a non-Collab version, if at all (recall that regular Spee was never for sale for the entire duration of the HSF Collab, even after sales plateaued). There's also the fact that it's been steadily spreading around both in game and out that Yukikaze sucks and Montpelier is also going to suck once her 10km Radar range is nerfed (and a number of day-1 buyers for Montpelier have since put in their refund requests), so it makes it even less likely to sell, despite not being as a non-Collab ship.

Look, I don't work for Wargaming, and have no idea what goes on in their heads. I only speculate that naming the ships 'AL Yukikaze' and 'AL Montpelier', and having no standard camo, is a good indicator to a future release of non AL versions. I may end up being completely wrong. But if WG does it, who is to say they won't have both versions for purchase at the same time? Remember that Graf Spee and HSF Graf Spee were sold alongside each other for a time.

And as for it not being very good, people do buy ships for the name and perceived historical value, or see it as a challenge. And Yukikaze isn't that bad. It's just imho far more situational and somewhat pointless to buy compared to Kagero, but definitely not unsalvageable. I know someone who loves his running a TA 6.4km yolo build. Some people bought Krispy Kremes, and some will buy Yuudachi come what may just to say "POI!" in chat. I predict that some people will buy Yukikaze without the anime baggage.

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It is an Eh bote.  Nothing special about it, and having just the 8km torps means you really have to play more ambush style, her base top speed, isn't really quite good enough.

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