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Roadrider7021

Concern over the Engine Cooling nerf

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   The proposed CV nerfs  circa 8.4 are largely ok, something needed to be done to buff DD's a bit viz a viz CV's. I like the HE DB nerf, not too crazy about spending 15-45 seconds less in a game that I've bought into but hey, there ya go. What concerns me is the Engine Cooling nerf. Flight times to targets will be longer lowering damage output for the class when they are already trailing my T10 BB's; as well as being DOT damage vs AP pen and cit damage, harder to heal back the BB damage et al. Plane survivability over a target has to be an issue now; the nerf will take away 17 kph in some cases, more in the case of the GZ. Running the 5% module buff ( or about 10 kph) has a noticeable buff to plane to plane survivability at T10 in that you are about as plane tanky with the extra 10 kph as having  an extra 7.5% hit points with the other module. What will it be like to have a 17 kph or larger speed nerf right in the AA bubble at tier 10, right where you need it most? I really hope the Engine Cooling nerf doesn't go through or at least is compensated for, for such a data driven company it can't make a lot of sense. Why lower the "strike potential" of CV's at the high tiers when the best performing CV is only 4th place in BB damage as it is?

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22 minutes ago, Roadrider7021 said:

   The proposed CV nerfs  circa 8.4 are largely ok, something needed to be done to buff DD's a bit viz a viz CV's. I like the HE DB nerf, not too crazy about spending 15-45 seconds less in a game that I've bought into but hey, there ya go. What concerns me is the Engine Cooling nerf. Flight times to targets will be longer lowering damage output for the class when they are already trailing my T10 BB's; as well as being DOT damage vs AP pen and cit damage, harder to heal back the BB damage et al. Plane survivability over a target has to be an issue now; the nerf will take away 17 kph in some cases, more in the case of the GZ. Running the 5% module buff ( or about 10 kph) has a noticeable buff to plane to plane survivability at T10 in that you are about as plane tanky with the extra 10 kph as having  an extra 7.5% hit points with the other module. What will it be like to have a 17 kph or larger speed nerf right in the AA bubble at tier 10, right where you need it most? I really hope the Engine Cooling nerf doesn't go through or at least is compensated for, for such a data driven company it can't make a lot of sense. Why lower the "strike potential" of CV's at the high tiers when the best performing CV is only 4th place in BB damage as it is?

I agree, but am holding out to play it?    I think this a bigger nerf than many realize.   

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28 minutes ago, Roadrider7021 said:

   The proposed CV nerfs  circa 8.4 are largely ok, something needed to be done to buff DD's a bit viz a viz CV's. I like the HE DB nerf, not too crazy about spending 15-45 seconds less in a game that I've bought into but hey, there ya go. What concerns me is the Engine Cooling nerf. Flight times to targets will be longer lowering damage output for the class when they are already trailing my T10 BB's; as well as being DOT damage vs AP pen and cit damage, harder to heal back the BB damage et al. Plane survivability over a target has to be an issue now; the nerf will take away 17 kph in some cases, more in the case of the GZ. Running the 5% module buff ( or about 10 kph) has a noticeable buff to plane to plane survivability at T10 in that you are about as plane tanky with the extra 10 kph as having  an extra 7.5% hit points with the other module. What will it be like to have a 17 kph or larger speed nerf right in the AA bubble at tier 10, right where you need it most? I really hope the Engine Cooling nerf doesn't go through or at least is compensated for, for such a data driven company it can't make a lot of sense. Why lower the "strike potential" of CV's at the high tiers when the best performing CV is only 4th place in BB damage as it is?

Why should a CV equal or out damage a BB?

I'm serious, when other classes bring up the fact BBs do more damage it's always explained away as high damage being a BB "thing". So why should a CV equal a BB? Particularly when the ship itself is almost never at risk while the CV racks up the damage numbers. At least a BB is in the strike range of other BBs when it's bow tanking, and deleting CA/CLs.

I think that the intent is to bring the damage down at T10, so that the ship that has the greatest impact on the game isn't also the highest damage dealer. DDs used to have the honour of most impact on the most games, but since the rework CVs have taken that away. Maybe CVs should be doing DD damage on average.

As CV players have been saying a for the last few months "Adapt".

 

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Indeed -- no other mechanic in the game is limited to arbitrary static values.   Rocket aircraft use their speed to survive (even then it's not enough) -- they've got extremely weak armor, very little time at speed.  The whole "limiting boost speed to static value to prevent spotting" --- Um, what?  How they presented it makes zero sense.  Rocket aircraft get 5 whole seconds of boost.  A fraction of all other aircraft.  They will be useless without it.  Not sure where this proposal even came from given the fact that some aircraft have double the HP of the midways rocket aircraft. 

This has nothing to do with spotting mechanics, at all.  It's just an arbitrary nonsensical move.  All mechanics use percentages.  There's absolutely no reason at all to change boost, certainly for "spotting".    It's bad enough given I just went through a SUB 6 MINUTE MATCH with the midway -- sitting on deck for 45 seconds removes a good 10% of the CV's ability to inflict its "1,000 cuts".  Yes, BBs have to wait 30 seconds for their 100,000 HP alpha strike barrels, and DDs have to wait 70+ seconds for their 250,000 HP alpha strike stealth torps.  

CVs have strike potential of light cruisers -- they have a load time of sub 10 seconds and their shells make it 18+km in 8 seconds.  These changes make absolutely ZERO sense. 

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29 minutes ago, NoSoMo said:

Indeed -- no other mechanic in the game is limited to arbitrary static values.   Rocket aircraft use their speed to survive (even then it's not enough) -- they've got extremely weak armor, very little time at speed.  The whole "limiting boost speed to static value to prevent spotting" --- Um, what?  How they presented it makes zero sense.  Rocket aircraft get 5 whole seconds of boost.  A fraction of all other aircraft.  They will be useless without it.  Not sure where this proposal even came from given the fact that some aircraft have double the HP of the midways rocket aircraft. 

This has nothing to do with spotting mechanics, at all.  It's just an arbitrary nonsensical move.  All mechanics use percentages.  There's absolutely no reason at all to change boost, certainly for "spotting".    It's bad enough given I just went through a SUB 6 MINUTE MATCH with the midway -- sitting on deck for 45 seconds removes a good 10% of the CV's ability to inflict its "1,000 cuts".  Yes, BBs have to wait 30 seconds for their 100,000 HP alpha strike barrels, and DDs have to wait 70+ seconds for their 250,000 HP alpha strike stealth torps.  

CVs have strike potential of light cruisers -- they have a load time of sub 10 seconds and their shells make it 18+km in 8 seconds.  These changes make absolutely ZERO sense. 

The nerfs aren’t supposed to make sense. Do not forget that WG is trying to appease the lowest common denominator... The kinds of players who flock to DDs are used to being pretty much invincible and I am sure after 8.4 DDs will be asking for further nerfs. A well played DD before the CV rework had essentially no counter and this is what the DD class wants to get back to...

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15 minutes ago, JustAdapt said:

The nerfs aren’t supposed to make sense. Do not forget that WG is trying to appease the lowest common denominator... The kinds of players who flock to DDs are used to being pretty much invincible and I am sure after 8.4 DDs will be asking for further nerfs. A well played DD before the CV rework had essentially no counter and this is what the DD class wants to get back to...

They are not just trying to "appease the lowest common denominator", there is a huge portion of the pretty good at the game players who want to see CVs nerfed far harder than this or removed outright. In my opinion anything that reduces the oppressive spotting and the no counterplay damage is a step in the right direction. 

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1 hour ago, Roadrider7021 said:

   The proposed CV nerfs  circa 8.4 are largely ok, something needed to be done to buff DD's a bit viz a viz CV's. I like the HE DB nerf, not too crazy about spending 15-45 seconds less in a game that I've bought into but hey, there ya go. What concerns me is the Engine Cooling nerf. Flight times to targets will be longer lowering damage output for the class when they are already trailing my T10 BB's; as well as being DOT damage vs AP pen and cit damage, harder to heal back the BB damage et al. Plane survivability over a target has to be an issue now; the nerf will take away 17 kph in some cases, more in the case of the GZ. Running the 5% module buff ( or about 10 kph) has a noticeable buff to plane to plane survivability at T10 in that you are about as plane tanky with the extra 10 kph as having  an extra 7.5% hit points with the other module. What will it be like to have a 17 kph or larger speed nerf right in the AA bubble at tier 10, right where you need it most? I really hope the Engine Cooling nerf doesn't go through or at least is compensated for, for such a data driven company it can't make a lot of sense. Why lower the "strike potential" of CV's at the high tiers when the best performing CV is only 4th place in BB damage as it is?

Not too worried, I found an interesting bug that allows me to increase plane speed ~20% for a few seconds. However, given WG is simply going "nerf nerf nerf" instead of doing a few buffs and leaving rest to player skill, keeping this info to myself.

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3 minutes ago, Reymu said:

Not too worried, I found an interesting bug that allows me to increase plane speed ~20% for a few seconds. However, given WG is simply going "nerf nerf nerf" instead of doing a few buffs and leaving rest to player skill, keeping this info to myself.

Discovers exploit. 

 

Immediately posts about doing exploit on the official forums of the video game. 

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1 hour ago, VeatherVitch said:

As CV players have been saying a for the last few months "Adapt".

And we have.   Every change to the CV's that has for the most part all been nerfs.  We adapted and learned new ways to play the class.  What happens?  The Anti-CV haters find something new to complain about.  It will never stop.  They have openly admitted that they don't want the class in the game.  The moment a CV scratches the paint on their ship they immediately cry that the class is still broken.

When will the other players who don't play CV will finally learn to adapt to the gameplay? 

I still believe that a majority of players are still not considering taking AA traits/modules/consumables or refuse to stop running off on their own.

 

Edited by HeadSplit120
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I think this change alone will drive off most of the average CV players. The engine boost is used to get OUT of the continual AA on short-medium ranges to preserve planes. I cant see this going well for the average skill CV captain. I'll hold judgement until I see how much it impacts my CVs since I do play them. Have a feeling though these things are about to be port queens. Spotting can be overkill but it isn't because of the plane speed boost.

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1 hour ago, VeatherVitch said:

Why should a CV equal or out damage a BB?

I'm serious, when other classes bring up the fact BBs do more damage it's always explained away as high damage being a BB "thing". So why should a CV equal a BB? Particularly when the ship itself is almost never at risk while the CV racks up the damage numbers. At least a BB is in the strike range of other BBs when it's bow tanking, and deleting CA/CLs.

I think that the intent is to bring the damage down at T10, so that the ship that has the greatest impact on the game isn't also the highest damage dealer. DDs used to have the honour of most impact on the most games, but since the rework CVs have taken that away. Maybe CVs should be doing DD damage on average.

As CV players have been saying a for the last few months "Adapt".

 

Because it's conqueror style DOT damage that doesn't quickly remove ships/influence the game like ship deleting BB AP salvos...  A lot of CV damage can be healed back. If CV's are reliant on that kind of DOT damage, they should be doing MORE damage then an average BB to make up for the loss of match impact.

EJ

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1 hour ago, VeatherVitch said:

Why should a CV equal or out damage a BB?

I'm serious, when other classes bring up the fact BBs do more damage it's always explained away as high damage being a BB "thing". So why should a CV equal a BB? Particularly when the ship itself is almost never at risk while the CV racks up the damage numbers. At least a BB is in the strike range of other BBs when it's bow tanking, and deleting CA/CLs.

I think that the intent is to bring the damage down at T10, so that the ship that has the greatest impact on the game isn't also the highest damage dealer. DDs used to have the honour of most impact on the most games, but since the rework CVs have taken that away. Maybe CVs should be doing DD damage on average.

As CV players have been saying a for the last few months "Adapt".

Why? Because they play on a similar economy. A low damage game with a Perma camo and Premium can still damn near be a net loss on the match if you lose too many aircraft.

Is the damage potential maybe too high? I think HE dive bombs against DDs is but overall they are balanced damage wise. I think the part that needs the nerf is the spotting and spotting is not tied to engine boost. Boosting is to get in and out of the the continual and very potent AA at higher tiers and by removing that boost speed you will likely see many more planes get shredded making passes. That is going to lead to frustrations on the average CV player and they will simply put them down.

I enjoy the CV play and take them out from time to time but I can see this being a massive nerf to the strike potential of CVs in the high tiers. Will see a lot more CVs deplaning themselves trying to force strikes through. 

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This change to the boosting/braking system of rocket planes is going to suck because right now you can use it to trick the flak into shooting infront of and behind you if you time it right

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1 minute ago, HorrorRoach said:

Because it's conqueror style DOT damage that doesn't quickly remove ships/influence the game like ship deleting BB AP salvos...  A lot of CV damage can be healed back. If CV's are reliant on that kind of DOT damage, they should be doing MORE damage then an average BB to make up for the loss of match impact.

You know it is pretty interesting that CVs were supposed to do a portion of their damage in DoT style mechanics. Except when you look at that battle performance breakdown and see that you set 7 fires and 4 floods for a grand total of -wait for it- 9k damage... that seems to be a failure of the DoT style play. Thankfully at least some of the planes have a little alpha behind them.

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This change is the death of CVs -- their speed is their only AA counter -- next up AA gets stronger.  If this patch moves forward, the UNIs will stay in CVs and the rest shall fall by the wayside.  I figured they'd at least wait until charge-back time elapses before they WG'd a newly-sold class.  Yanked from reddit write up.

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42 minutes ago, Ossiuum said:

They are not just trying to "appease the lowest common denominator", there is a huge portion of the pretty good at the game players who want to see CVs nerfed far harder than this or removed outright. In my opinion anything that reduces the oppressive spotting and the no counterplay damage is a step in the right direction. 

If you think there is no counterplay then you clearly do not fall in that "pretty good at the game" player range. The one thing CV do really well is keep players in check who constantly yolo off on their own. The main counter play has always been there, it is called team play. A DD who smokes up their CA/BB and CA and BB that push forward with their DDs. I can tell you for a fact, when I see this as a CV, I just fly to the other side of the map and look for a lone target to pickoff. A small group of players who "team up" to take objectives are more or less unstrikable. 

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11 minutes ago, NoSoMo said:

This change is the death of CVs -- their speed is their only AA counter -- next up AA gets stronger.  If this patch moves forward, the UNIs will stay in CVs and the rest shall fall by the wayside.  I figured they'd at least wait until charge-back time elapses before they WG'd a newly-sold class.  Yanked from reddit write up.

image.thumb.png.0ea758597dfc1dbe75f7c1c3df67c697.pngimage.thumb.png.4320351bbf52d1af57101b93d95357da.png
image.thumb.png.012362cc86dcf7f4763fc88f4314a489.png

That's a pretty substantial speed reduction- definitely enough to seriously feel it. About half my games are played in a CV so I obviously don't like this, but even from a more objective point of view this is mostly just going to reduce CV DPM (and enjoyment), rather than their spotting.

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11 minutes ago, NoSoMo said:

This change is the death of CVs -- their speed is their only AA counter -- next up AA gets stronger.  If this patch moves forward, the UNIs will stay in CVs and the rest shall fall by the wayside.  I figured they'd at least wait until charge-back time elapses before they WG'd a newly-sold class.  Yanked from reddit write up.

I 100% agree. Unis will probably figure it out ok and walk away with minor nerfs overall. The average player that takes the CV out a few times a week is done. Boost speed is not linked to spotting. If you used boost to find targets (other than early on) you were wasting boost and planes. Boost is best served as a way to escape the short to medium range AA that is often extremely potent. 

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3 minutes ago, Frenotx said:

That's a pretty substantial speed reduction- definitely enough to seriously feel it. About half my games are played in a CV so I obviously don't like this, but even from a more objective point of view this is mostly just going to reduce CV DPM (and enjoyment), rather than their spotting.

Agree. Once you make your target selection pretty much most of your spotting is by chance anyways as you fly over/near targets. Boost is almost never used to spot targets but to escape the short and medium range AA bubbles. 

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5 minutes ago, JustAdapt said:

If you think there is no counterplay then you clearly do not fall in that "pretty good at the game" player range. The one thing CV do really well is keep players in check who constantly yolo off on their own. The main counter play has always been there, it is called team play. A DD who smokes up their CA/BB and CA and BB that push forward with their DDs. I can tell you for a fact, when I see this as a CV, I just fly to the other side of the map and look for a lone target to pickoff. A small group of players who "team up" to take objectives are more or less unstrikable. 

So your counterplay is to sit in AA balls? Come on man you know that feels bad, and becomes more difficult the longer the game drags on. 

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7 minutes ago, Ossiuum said:

So your counterplay is to sit in AA balls? Come on man you know that feels bad, and becomes more difficult the longer the game drags on. 

2-3 ships is sufficient to repel attacks from CVs, I am not saying you need to sit in a deathball of 10+ ships. Attacking a small group of 2-3 ships right now might allow you to get one strike in with heavy losses, which is not sustainable for the CV. 

If a single ship can defend itself from CV attacks (I know many CL/CA can already hold their own) then a small group of ships becomes unstrikable by the CV; I would not define that as good or balanced play. 

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2 hours ago, Roadrider7021 said:

[...] Why lower the "strike potential" of CV's at the high tiers when the best performing CV is only 4th place in BB damage as it is? 

Because this game is made for the bbybies had the most dmg and any other class are allowed to do that.

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Ever single patch wg is working to destroy the cvs in nerf after nerf.

Now they going remove 45secons of gameplay, and reduce the speed for planes die faster and do less strikers.

This is getting ridiculous.

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30 minutes ago, HyenaHiena said:

Ever single patch wg is working to destroy the cvs in nerf after nerf.

Now they going remove 45secons of gameplay, and reduce the speed for planes die faster and do less strikers.

This is getting ridiculous.

You don't lose 45 seconds, you can use those to start moving your ship whatever direction you want, studying the spawn arrangements of your fleet, making note of which caps your ships are moving to contest and consider how you might support them.

You know, the same thing every other player in the game does for the first minute or so.

Edited by Brhinosaurus

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5 minutes ago, Brhinosaurus said:

You don't lose 45 seconds, you can use those to start moving your ship whatever direction you want, studying the spawn arrangements of your fleet, making note of which caps your ships are moving to contest and consider how you might support them.

You know, the same thing every other player in the game does for the first minute or so.

Except you can do all that during the 30 secs or so before game start while everyone is loading in. Or if, for whatever reason, you load in late you can do all of that while your planes were flying towards the enemy.

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